Should Democrats drop civil rights from their platform?

[Hardkill]

Given the historic surge in racism, xenophobia, and misogyny in America and around the world, I wonder if Democrats should let go of fighting for social justice issues such as racial equity, immigration rights, women rights, etc. and just stick with promoting more left-wing economic populist policies for the people if they really want to ever win back power someday in the future.

Edited November 21, 2024 by Hardkill

[Frylock]

Never stop fighting the good fight, even if it ends with you being lynched or in a concentration camp.

[Hardkill]

19 minutes ago, Frylock said:

Never stop fighting the good fight, even if it ends with you being lynched or in a concentration camp.

Ideally, we shouldn't, but look at the reality of the situation we are in.

Also, there is precedent for this. After the Reconstruction era, the Republican Party basically said, 'We've done enough for Black and Brown people, let's focus on growing businesses and the economy.' Teddy Roosevelt, the last truly progressive Republican US president, essentially became an anomaly within his party during the 1900s.

Even Woodrow Wilson, who became the very first liberal/progressive US president in US history, wasn't really crazy about the idea of women having the right to vote and was quite a racist Southerner.

Even Throughout his presidency, FDR recognized that enacting serious policies granting civil rights to African Americans and other non-whites was virtually impossible. To pass urgent economic reforms, he knew that he had to compromise with powerful white Southern racists in Congress and racist lobbyists from the business community, who advocated for economic measures that would exclude Blacks and other non-whites.

The Democrats eventually lost more and more of the South and other rural areas of the country, especially after LBJ and Congress enacted all of the historic laws that ended Jim Crow laws for good by the late 1960s to 1970s.

Edited November 21, 2024 by Hardkill

[Emerald]

No. That's the problem with the left. 

We become so strategic that we cede ground to the right. And then, it will become more and more taboo to support civil rights, trans rights, gay rights, women's rights, abortion rights, etc.

That's the way the Overton Window works. They more you insist on something, the more normalized it becomes.

And the left is always ceding ground to the right and trying to meet in the middle, while the right just goes scorched Earth and plays power games and insists that their view is correct... facts be damned.

So, the right never goes "Should we stop hating on trans people?" or "Should we cool our language on immigrants?"

They wear their freak flag out and proud, and tons of people jump onto their movement because they have a vision... a terrible hate-filled vision... but a vision.

It's time to stop being strategic and start being honest and go on the offensive, instead of playing defense all the time. And the leftwing politicians need to have a vision that includes both human-rights and economic populist messages.

[PurpleTree]

They can’t.

Democrats are the establishment/wall street etc. They’re not going to hurt their own pockets like this.

[Hardkill]

9 minutes ago, Emerald said:

No. That's the problem with the left. 

We become so strategic that we cede ground to the right. And then, it will become more and more taboo to support civil rights, trans rights, gay rights, women's rights, abortion rights, etc.

That's the way the Overton Window works. They more you insist on something, the more normalized it becomes.

And the left is always ceding ground to the right and trying to meet in the middle, while the right just goes scorched Earth and plays power games and insists that their view is correct... facts be damned.

So, the right never goes "Should we stop hating on trans people?" or "Should we cool our language on immigrants?"

They wear their freak flag out and proud, and tons of people jump onto their movement because they have a vision... a terrible hate-filled vision... but a vision.

It's time to stop being strategic and start being honest and go on the offensive, instead of playing defense all the time. And the leftwing politicians need to have a vision that includes both human-rights and economic populist messages.

I get your point, and I really thought that Democrats should be unapolegetically liberal/progressive in 2024. I still think they should, but only on economic policies.

Believe me, I want to fight for all kinds of social justice for all people in our country, but honestly don't see how fighting for any more social justice stuff is going to work for the foreseeable future given how extremely negative this political environment has tragically gotten for immigrants, non-whites, and women.

I remember you saying that the reasons Democrats were very successful with getting stuff done during the years the New Deal Coalition existed (1930s to mid 1970s), not just because of the Great Depression, but because both major political parties pretty much agreed on every social issue unlike today were there is virtually no agreement on any social issues amongst both parties. Therefore, Democrats primarily focused on getting left-leaning economic policies enacted during those years until the late 1960s/early 70s. Hell, even Republicans like Eisenhower and Nixon got a significant amount of good things done for the people economically:

On 8/12/2024 at 8:14 PM, Emerald said:

That's certainly true. Back then, it was right off the back of the Great Depression. So, my suspicion is that back then, people were more tuned in to specific policies because of how much they were looking to the political sphere to solve the economy crash and how influential the New Deal was.

Plus, they weren't so identified with partisan distinctions between parties and it wasn't as stark of a contrast in social values.

Like both Eisenhower (Republican) and FDR (Democrat) were focused on a lot of policies that would be considered economically left-wing nowadays.

 

Edited November 21, 2024 by Hardkill

[Hardkill]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

They can’t.

Democrats are the establishment/wall street etc. They’re not going to hurt their own pockets like this.

Then, they could be either doomed as a party for eternity or just decide to pass more "Third Way" Republican-lite policies with Republicans in Congress that will be bad for the country in the long-run like the kind of policies that Bill Clinton and neoliberal Dems passed with Dole, Gingrich, and the Republicans in Congress in the 1990s.

[Basman]

No, but there needs to be way more emphasize on economic policy. Bernie Sanders was quiet popular with a lot of guys who voted Trump this term despite being left-wing and Sanders doesn't give a shit about identity politics. Barely ever talks about it.

We are living in a cost-of-living crisis and people are feeling the squeeze. Republicans are acknowledging that and selling a solution much better than the Democrats, who present themselves as nothing more than the alternative "not Trump" but end up just looking like the establishment despite having superior policy for common folk. Its about identifying the pain and selling the solution.

The truth about identity politics is that its unimportant to the average person who's living paycheck to paycheck so its therefor in practice an irrelevant talking point. When you talk about the rights of minorities, that's good and all but the majority doesn't win on that. Good economic policy should be a win-win for everyone. Identity politics is just in general relatively unimportant. Nobody really cares if you black or gay as long as they are materially secure and unbothered.

[Leo Gura]

Just to goad the right the left should add AI rights and unicorn rights to their agenda.

#UnicornsToo

Edited November 22, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

On 11/21/2024 at 2:44 PM, Hardkill said:

Given the historic surge in racism, xenophobia, and misogyny in America and around the world, I wonder if Democrats should let go of fighting for social justice issues such as racial equity, immigration rights, women rights, etc. and just stick with promoting more left-wing economic populist policies for the people if they really want to ever win back power someday in the future.

Its really about just waiting for the right to implode.   Either they will implode or some outside circumstance will bring them down.  There will be a downturn somewhere and then the democrats will be there to pick up the pieces.

 

Edited November 22, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Hardkill]

38 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Its really about just waiting for the right to implode.   Either they will implode or some outside circumstance will bring them down.  There will be a downturn somewhere and then the democrats will be there to pick up the pieces.

 

There's no guarantee that just waiting for that to happen will save the Democratic party or bring them back to power.

I am sorry, but I really think that Democrats have nothing to lose now by going back to their more racist and xenophobic roots, while running economic populist policies like Woodrow Wilson and FDR.

I think that the Democratic party leader should say to the public "I know that racial equality and being pro-immigration is important, but given the political reality we are in now, those issues are unfortunately no longer a priority for this country. We did everything we could for the black and brown communities in America and we should be very proud of everything we did to help them acquire the rights and level of social justice they have now. However, we believe that it would be best if the Democratic party focuses much more on helping the working class, the middle class, and the working poor in our country."

Edited November 22, 2024 by Hardkill

[Inliytened1]

@Hardkill That would help.  But ultimately it will depend on how the economy does and international affairs.   Luckily Trump can't run again.  That's big.  If Trump implodes or the economy faulters, the left needs to be there to step in.  With stronger voices this time.

Edited November 23, 2024 by Inliytened1