Perfectionist Indeed

[Socrates]

Somehow i had never watched the "how to cure perfectionism" video until today. Although i knew i had a problem with critisism/judgment i thought it was not urgent enough. One day deep into the rubber band excercise my wrist is red from 30 or more times of "punishment" and now i am getting negative emotions on how fucking critical/judgmental I am (awkward laugh ). So is there any other practical way to fix this?

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by Socrates

[Loreena]

@Socrates How about keeping a tip jar like a swear jar. Every time you do it, put a dollar or more in it. Then if you want to save on your dollars, you know what to do.

Or else just learn to embrace the imperfections of the self and the world by having this understanding that whatever may be the case, everything has a component of both good and bad in it and more often  than not, we focus only on the bad side and in that process miss out even on the good. 

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by Loreena

[Nahm]

Daily meditation can slow down reacting (judging) until you are eventually creating (not reacting/judging).

[Socrates]

@Loreena I know need to embrace the imprefections but i can't. I find them as an opportunity to improve the world, if i fix them of course.

@Nahm I meditate daily pretty consistently i would say. I don't judge in order to feed my ego and feel superior, i do it just because i see flaws and i want to fix them with my entrepreneurial mindset. I think judgment needs a part 2 video.  On the first video it is clear enough on the macro there is no need to judge but what about the micro? Don't i need to judge a good life coach vs a bad one to choose the first one? Don't i need to judge a good book vs a bad one to choose the first one? At the end of the day isn't my judgment a way to evaluate things? 

[Nahm]

7 hours ago, Socrates said:

@Loreena I know need to embrace the imprefections but i can't. I find them as an opportunity to improve the world, if i fix them of course.

@Nahm I meditate daily pretty consistently i would say. I don't judge in order to feed my ego and feel superior, i do it just because i see flaws and i want to fix them with my entrepreneurial mindset. I think judgment needs a part 2 video.  On the first video it is clear enough on the macro there is no need to judge but what about the micro? Don't i need to judge a good life coach vs a bad one to choose the first one? Don't i need to judge a good book vs a bad one to choose the first one? At the end of the day isn't my judgment a way to evaluate things? 

that sounds like judgement that feels good

self criticism however, does not sound like it feels good.   

Sounds like you meditate daily but still have trouble accepting yourself as is? 

[Socrates]

@Nahm I rarely criticise myself. I don't have trouble accepting myself. I dont judge to bring others down and feed my ego by feeling superior. I just use judgement as a tool. I may have a problem with unconditional love though.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Socrates

[eskwire]

@Socrates You think you have more control than you do. You also think that your judgements are correct and, therefore, useful. This is why you judge so much - seems only reasonable if you believe you are in control and are right. Of course, you don't have control and you aren't right. 

What kind of meditation are you doing?

If you try to gain understanding of the illusory nature of your assessments of "good and bad," you will put your discerning character to good use. The Buddha said there were 3 personality types - people who criticize everything when they walk in the room being one of them. There is a lot of potential for yours - as long as you turn it on yourself. 

[Socrates]

2 hours ago, eskwire said:

Of course, you don't have control and you aren't right. 

I have theoretically understood the part that i don't have control but the fact i am not right is just a possibility not an absolute fact.

2 hours ago, eskwire said:

What kind of meditation are you doing?

On roids.

This judgment stuff is really confusing. The way i see it is that if you dont judge and you have the attitude of  "I dont know" you are too passive. Even if a new Hitler came into power you couldn't take a position, because you wouldn't know and in general you can't make any assertive decisions, because you don't know. Also with that in mind there is no reason watching Leo or reading books, because you dont know. Do i have misunderstood what judgment means maybe? This doesn't make sense.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Socrates

[eskwire]

@Socrates It is a fact that you are not "right," in the sense that our abilities to conceptualize, parse, and label necessitate leaving out parts of reality. We simply cannot and do not have the ability to process all infinite variables. 

It is a common mistake to assume that enlightened people, those who live completely immersed in the moment, are passive. That is simply a matter of, again, dividing what need not be divided. A false dichotomy. Peaceful/passive vs aggressive/active. 

It is amazing how much more powerful and effective a person is once it is not identified with the mind. When the mind becomes a tool, you can really make things happen. As Peter Ralston says, you also tend to act in a way that seems more moral. Not because you have placed restrictions on your activities, but because immoral, selfish, deluded behavior just seems stupid. 

This stuff is confusing because you have not yet experienced liberation, so all of these concepts are just concepts to you. And they don't make sense in your paradigm. They seem contradictory. 

It appears you are doing the most judgemental meditation hahahaha. Try "do nothing" or mindfulness instead. 

[Socrates]

1 hour ago, eskwire said:

It is a fact that you are not "right," in the sense that our abilities to conceptualize, parse, and label necessitate leaving out parts of reality. We simply cannot and do not have the ability to process all infinite variables.

I was so sure that you would say that. The issue here is that this theory or fact or whatever you are going to call it is not for us to conceptualize upon. We are not enlightened yet so we just mentally masturbate and we are not going to become enlightened if we just take the enlightenment paradigm and force it upon our throats. Enlightenment has nothing to do with beliefs and just making certain observations about that state and trying to implement them in our lives is not gonna cut it.

Give me something practical. Don't mix it with enlightenment just tell me what is wrong about judgment. Approach it with a self development perspective not a spiritual one.

Also how can meditation be judgmental? This is new.

[dorg]

1 hour ago, Socrates said:

just tell me what is wrong about judgment.

That would be using judgement on judgement. Judgement is about right/wrong, good/bad; the mind assesses things as best it can and then judges; but the mind never has all the information to come to a faultless conclusion; you need intuition for that.

Edited May 4, 2017 by dorg

[eskwire]

@Socrates I am not speaking purely in the abstract but from enlightenment "experiences" and seeing how such conceptual teachings "unlock" it in retrospect. And why shouldn't this topic be mixed with enlightenment? Are there only certain topics you can discuss regarding enlightenment? 

The practical advice was to change your meditation style. Did you miss it while judging the advice and telling me I'm not allowed to talk about enlightenment right now? ?

If you want another exercise besides changing your meditation style, you can ask yourself questions about the veracity of your judgements.

For example:

Thought: "Kathleen should talk about judgement in terms of personal development and not enlightenment."

Is that true? "It seems true."

But is it ABSOLUTELY true? "Well, no...."

PS I say that SDS is "judgemental" because you are forcing a situation. Deeming it uncool to move. That's not a bad thing and some people need the concentration. It seems that is not to your particular greatest benefit. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by eskwire

[Socrates]

@eskwire Not that you are not allowed but is not helping. Also enlightenment is a road by itself. Talking about enlightenment and mixing it with other things doesn't offer anything unless you are helping the enlightnment process. So, can you approach it from the self-development perspective? 

[eskwire]

@Socrates The practical, personal development advice is to

1. Change your meditation technique.

2. Write down your judgements and question them. 

[Epiphany_Inspired]

This is my self-love, life purpose, and mastery nemesis. @Socrates. I have not overcome it remotely...but... I know some things that help:

For the self:

#1. Cultivate acceptance (bulldozing through to anti-perfectionism at this point is only suppression) 

#2. Commit to dreams regardless of it (it's better to do something flawed than nothing at all)

#3. Find baby step methods of willfully surpassing it (the beast won't realize it's loosing strength if it's broken down by toothpicks rather than swords)

For judgement of others:

#1. See them as their hurt inner children

#2. Cultivate not giving a shit/ tolerance/ compassion

#3. Re-invoke how judgement has felt for you, especially other's inaccurate assumptions..."do unto others", even in thought...

 

 

[eskwire]

@Socrates I've thought about this for some time today.

Perfectionism and a tendency toward criticism do not change the entire world. They are tendencies of the mind that hurt you.

In a place of openness, compassion, and acceptance, change can occur.

It is the most effective place from which to act.

Understanding that may encourage a path toward enlightenment. Or, enlightenment may happen spontaneously while you are simply trying to navigate your usual paradigm with more ease. Or, enlightenment may not occur at all, but it need not be seen as something separate. "Its own path," so to speak, with its own tools that possess no value otherwise. These are judgements. They are false in their incompleteness. 

I can say with experience in this that working on controlling or changing these types of dysfunctional and ineffective tendencies only goes so far without enlightenment. I speak of this not to shove it down your throat, but to tell you there is another place to be where these matters are dissipated. They aren't dissipated along with all effectiveness in the world or concern for humanity, but dissipated in their striving, seeking, and misunderstanding. This is beautiful, not annoying. 

You don't have to embrace it. But the concepts that paint that picture for you (meaningless once you've arrived) are not something to brush off as something other than your path. They are part of any path of personal development. Of full fruit or not is irrelevant. Take these concepts as a way to open your mind so that it functions in a clean and clear way. If nothing else. 

I give you a hard time. You are smart. I see such resistance - so much so that there is judgement about how to be coached on letting go of judgement. It is woven into everything for you. That is painful, unnecessary, and ineffective.

Have you had many jobs?

Do your co-workers and bosses and underlings respond to this judgement?

Do your loved ones, friends and family, snap into making changes because you judge?

How effective has all this judgement been in showing results?

If it effective, then by all means keep a tool. If it isn't, then really think it through. Or don't and just be. 

[Loreena]

It's not the macro judging but micro judging  which is the real problem. 

[Loreena]

I am fed up and tired of people micro judging each other's character all the time. I am tired of the "you are _ _ _" "she is _ _ "  "he is _ _ _ " type statements. Judging  on that scale has become the norm. labels are just so damn insane especially when you know they're not true. 

[Socrates]

7 hours ago, eskwire said:

In a place of openness, compassion, and acceptance, change can occur.

I really like this on the macro but it is not true on the micro. In a place that you need a way to evaluate decision a vs decision b, how do you decide? How do you dodge judgment here?

8 hours ago, eskwire said:

I can say with experience in this that working on controlling or changing these types of dysfunctional and ineffective tendencies only goes so far without enlightenment. I speak of this not to shove it down your throat, but to tell you there is another place to be where these matters are dissipated.

I get where you are coming from on this one but still this subject is not related to enlightenment. This falls in the mental masturbation category not in a sense that is not correct but it is irrelevant here. Even if you were enlightened you couldn't get me enlightened just by describing your paradigm. I need to be it and that is far down the road.

8 hours ago, eskwire said:

How effective has all this judgement been in showing results?

Rarely effective when criticizing other people but still that doesn't prove anything. I used to get too many ego reactions because people were attaching their egos  to their beliefs and the last thing they wanted to face was criticism, they felt threatened. That is why I stopped judging (undeveloped) people. That shows the issue is with (undeveloped) people not with criticism itself. This judgment of specifically criticising people is a subset of the judgment i am referring to and doesn't cover the whole picture. Jumping to conclusion, judgment is the most effective tool so far but maybe this is the time of replacement (?!?!)

We agree on the macro and it makes perfect sense but if you want to go with zero judgment all together you need a replacement. Leo judges almost in every video and you do as well. It either is a double standard or there is still some grey area that has not been addressed yet.

The most mind boggling thing is that if you need to judge in order to explain why judgment is not helping, this means that you just talk the talk but do not walk the walk. The only way i can see is replacing judgment with another tool of evaluation that is not toxic.

[Socrates]

Hey @Leo Gura can you shed some light on here?