undeather

Eastern vs. Western Medicine - One of the best debates out there (Dr. K & Dr. Mike)

8 posts in this topic

 

This podcast provides a profound exploration of the dichotomy between Eastern and Western medical paradigms, offering a nuanced examination of their respective merits. It skillfully navigates the intricate nuances of each approach, illuminating their strengths while remaining open to critique and discourse.

It stands as a testament to the richness of the dialogue surrounding healthcare practices, inviting listeners to delve deeper into the complexities of medical philosophy and practice.

 


MD. Internal medicine/gastroenterology - Evidence based integral health approaches

"Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
- Rainer Maria Rilke

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14 hours ago, undeather said:

 

This podcast provides a profound exploration of the dichotomy between Eastern and Western medical paradigms, offering a nuanced examination of their respective merits. It skillfully navigates the intricate nuances of each approach, illuminating their strengths while remaining open to critique and discourse.

It stands as a testament to the richness of the dialogue surrounding healthcare practices, inviting listeners to delve deeper into the complexities of medical philosophy and practice.

 

That was excellent. They both argued their points quite effectively while keeping the conversation civil.

I think what is missing from this dialogue, especially for Dr. Mike, is a few solid transpersonal experiences. Dr. K has had some so he understands the bigger picture better, while Dr. Mike seems more stuck in rational / materialism. And this makes him very skeptical of anything spiritual like Aryuveda, since for him spirituality fundamentally doesn't mean much.

This is of course not to say that all of Aryuveda is correct. But when someone understands that the ancients were not just superstitious primitives, and that in some ways their knowledge exceeded that of modern scientists, then you are much more likely to have to seriously consider Eastern practices. 

Personally I am interested in integrating Eastern ideas into my practice, although I've not yet figured out how exactly that will look. The challenge is sorting out what is actually true and what actually works for patients / clients. 


 

 

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Posted (edited)


My thoughts on the subject.

An issue with herbal medicines is that it is slow in the healing process which is of a holistic nature. There are no side-effects but healing is slow and gradual and not easily tangible.

They are taken more as a preventive medicine.

Allopathic medicines are significant in emergencies, and healing is fast and tangible.

I also must state here that I have come across people who had exhausted all options that Allopathy could offer, but got effective treatment in Ayurveda and Hatha yoga.

Arthur Boorman and Brad Willis are famous examples in this regard who were able to heal themselves with Hatha Yoga and Ayurveda when they were given a poor prognosis by their doctors.

S.N.Goenka was a rich Burmese businessman who had consulted allopathic doctors around the world for his severe migraines unsuccessfully.  After learning and practicing the vipassana meditation technique under Vipassana teacher Sayagyi U Ba Khin, he experienced healing and became a life-long proponent of Vipassana and helped spread it in Asia and around the world.

A colleague of mine , who worked as an aeronautical engineer , had issues with infertility and had consulted various Allopathic specialists and treatments to no avail.

He and his wife had resigned to a life with no children. In his forties he came across an Ayurvedic treatment method for fertility issues with a good track record. After trying out this treatment, he and his wife had two children.

Because he got his children late in life, he used to joke about looking like a grandfather next to them in photographs. But he was happy that the treatment worked and hence usually spreads a good word about Ayurveda.

These case studies showed me that allopathic treatments need not be the last word, and alternative medicines can also be opted for healing purposes.

Edited by Ajay0

Self-awareness is yoga. - Nisargadatta

Awareness is the great non-conceptual perfection. - Dzogchen

Evil is an extreme manifestation of human unconsciousness. - Eckhart Tole

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Loved this talk, I think both Dr Mike & Dr K are both very valuable voices in the health/medicine space on Youtube. I used to not be a fan of Dr Mike years ago but he has grown on me a lot lately, his content is becoming more and more meaningful, he's stepping up and taking responsibility over the influence he has gained. The discussion was mature & both raise valid points. Glad I watched it!

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8 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

An issue with herbal medicines is that it is slow in the healing process which is of a holistic nature.

I understand where you're coming from with this and a lot of people do say this and might be true in some cases. I can't really say for sure as it is all i take and I stay away from conventional medicines and mostly medicate with holistic ones. I am sure if I find the need to go with conventional ones and it's an option that can potentially save my life, I will definitely go that route until I find it safe to do otherwise.

However, I find that the holistic approach that I have personally used have worked pretty fast and sometimes give immediate results. I'm only referring to minor ailments and the more common ones as in colds and flus, minor cuts and bruises, rashes or skin problems and things of that nature; not degenerative diseases as in hbp, high cholesterol, diabetes etc. 

I also think that the more one sticks to a more holistic approach, the better the body is more adept at healing itself without even the use of any medications whatsoever whether conventional or holistic; and, of course, this will need a little time and patience to happen, and as long as it's not a serious ailment. E,g. constipation, diarrhea, stomach-ache and even some form of body ache or pain.

I find my body can heal itself much more effectively now and i only even take anything if it persists for a longer period than I'm comfortable with and then I might take the necessary medicine appropriate for that illness. 

So, to sum up, I think if we allow the body to become more accustomed to healing itself and with the aid of holistic medicines (including whole foods), it will, can, or may be more prone to heal very quickly with the help of holistic medications because it has gotten used to them and have not been too subjected to treatments that are not compatible with the way it naturally works.


Thought = Time. Without thought there's no time. Death is the end of the illusion.

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Posted (edited)

@Princess Arabia Interesting and useful inputs. Thank you for this. :)

Edited by Ajay0

Self-awareness is yoga. - Nisargadatta

Awareness is the great non-conceptual perfection. - Dzogchen

Evil is an extreme manifestation of human unconsciousness. - Eckhart Tole

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The part where Dr K mentioned that bias is good and not necessarily bad in all contexts , showed that he thought about this topic more deeply than most people in general. He didn't just cram the evidence hierarchy - he thought about the underlying reasons why it is the way it is and what are some of the underlying factors that could change in certain instances that hierarchy.

You want to treat patients and not populations , and in order to achieve that of course ideally you would want to make your treatment as explicit/biased to your specific patient as possible. Now, of course In the real world  we can't do that because of the  lack of time, lack of resources , lack of money , hardness of logistics, lack of doctors  to conduct 8 billion individual specific studies for each specific problem.

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Posted (edited)

I love how the debate ends when Dr. K starts talking about different states of consciousness… what a tease 

Edited by Yimpa

"Wrongness is the unsung hero of growth, for it is only by venturing into the unknown and risking error that we can expand the boundaries of our understanding and pave the way for groundbreaking insights and innovations." -Claude 3 Opus

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