Leo you misunderstand Hitler completely

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura then ask Claude 3 this question if it's more truthful 

Meanwhile I will watch your videos to this topic because they were great ones.

I know there is something going on with the brain structure and your political view but from what I know Nazis don't fit into this. They were driven by higher forces.

Edited March 28 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura then ask Claude 3 this question if it's more truthful 

Frankly I don't know if it's more truthful.

Remember, AI's are still not as intelligent as me

And you have to know how to ask it the right questions.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, mmKay said:

At this point just automatize Chatgpt to argue for both sides

Begun the AI wars have.

[Bobby_2021]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course.

Nice joke.

You are telling me a that a country like Russia ignored all their communist left wing history to elect a right wing leader.

That's the most progressive and bold move you can think of. They are not interested in conserving their past it seems since they changed their entire politics from far left to far right. 

So either they are not conservative right wing, or they don't have a communist left wing past they need to preserve. 

Your logic eats itself.

Are going to admit that Russia had a right wing past? 

Because conservatives has to conserve the past. That's the essence of conservatism.

Big surprise, left wing can also be conservative. It's human nature to want to conserve the past. 

Which is why I say that conservatism/liberalism isn't a left or right thing. 

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You are telling me a that a country like Russia ignored all their communist left wing history to elect a right wing leader.

I already explained this earlier in this thread.

Soviet Russia was deeply under-developed and oppressed by the conservative Tsarist regime. Then their heads were filled with liberal, progressive ideas from Western Europe, including Marxism. Some of those early Soviet revolutionaries were truly leftist, liberal, and progressive. However, as the revolution raged on all the bleeding heart liberals were killed or kicked out from power, until Lenin and Stalin, both shameless and immoral egotists, grabbed power for themselves at the cost of everyone else. They created a twisted self-serving ideology which was progressive in its ideals, but actually right-wing authoritarian in its execution. Fidel Castro did the same thing. He spoke highly of democratic populist ideas, but in practice he ruled like a right-wing authoritarian. Fidel Castro personally oversaw drug smuggling operations to fuel his bank account, even though he denied all this publicly. Stalin was a bank-robber.

Because Communist nations were so under-developed, even if the leaders professed liberal or progressive ideals, in practice they had to resort to criminal domination in order to hold power. This rendered their progressivism moot. Just window-dressing. Stalin, Mao, Lenin, Castro.... these people were incapable of being liberal or progressive regardless of what they said publicly. They said a bunch of liberal things publicly in order to gain and hold power because the mood of the people was to overthrow oppressive capitalist or monarchist regimes.

Here's another claim for you: Monarchists were conservative. Before Fascism, there were monarchies. And the people who overthrew monarchs were liberals. The terms "left" and "right" come to us from the French Revolution. The right were the conservative monarchists while the left were the democratic liberals who cut off the heads of kings.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler Here you go:

Question: "There are scientific studies which measure differences between the liberal and conservative mind and/or brain. Can you summarize some of those differences and tell me which type of mind/brain would find Nazism most appealing?"

Claude 3:

Quote

"There have been several studies that have attempted to identify neurological and psychological differences between liberal and conservative individuals. However, it's important to note that these studies often deal with averages and tendencies, and there is significant overlap and variation within each group. With that said, here are some of the key findings:

• Fear and Threat Response: Several studies have found that conservatives tend to have a heightened sensitivity to potential threats and dangers, which may be linked to increased activity in the amygdala (the brain's fear center). Liberals, on the other hand, tend to be less sensitive to potential threats.
• Cognitive Style: Conservatives have been found to prefer more structured, persistent, and inflexible cognitive styles, while liberals tend to be more open to new experiences and ambiguity.
• Moral Foundations: Research suggests that conservatives tend to value moral foundations like loyalty, authority, and purity more strongly, while liberals place greater emphasis on harm prevention and fairness.
• Personality Traits: Conservatives tend to score higher on traits like orderliness, conscientiousness, and need for closure, while liberals tend to score higher on openness to experience.
• Brain Structure: Some studies have found differences in brain structure between liberals and conservatives, such as increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex (involved in decision-making) among conservatives.

Based on these findings, it can be argued that individuals with a more conservative cognitive style, heightened fear response, and stronger emphasis on loyalty, authority, and purity might be more susceptible to the appeal of authoritarian and nationalist ideologies like Nazism.

Nazism's emphasis on strong leadership, racial purity, and "us vs. them" mentality could resonate more strongly with individuals who have a higher need for order, in-group loyalty, and sensitivity to perceived threats from outsiders.

However, it's crucial to emphasize that these are tendencies, and many other factors, such as education, personal experiences, and social influences, also play a significant role in shaping one's political and ideological beliefs. Additionally, the vast majority of conservatives would reject the extreme, racist, and totalitarian principles of Nazism.

Ultimately, while these studies provide insights into potential psychological and neurological differences, they should not be used to stereotype or generalize entire groups of people."

Looks like Claude 3 is superior to ChatGPT.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura @Leo Gura

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

I read your blog post. I got goose bumps by how intelligent this new Claudia 3 responded. It's less restricted than ChatGPT 4 and is even more nuanced for sure.Absolutely amazing! 

So in todays world you don't need  to figure out the right answers anymore, just know how to ask the right questions.

 

 

Edited March 28 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Which is why I say that conservatism/liberalism isn't a left or right thing.

This is just historically wrong.

Left and right are terms which we got from the French Revolution. In the French Revolution the conservatives who supported the monarchy sat on the right side of the chamber. The liberals who wanted to end the monarchy and establish a democracy sat on the left.

That's literally what those terms mean.

In the past, conservatives used to defend monarchy and denounce democracy. And even today, conservatives are not as democratic as liberals. Why? Because the conservative mind favors hierarchy over egalitarianism. Conservatives think that egalitarianism is wrong because people are not equal by nature.

The simple reason that conservatives lean toward Nazism is because they love hierarchy. They want a strongman to follow. That's why they love Trump! And why they hate weepy gay liberals and feminists. A conservative believes that if you have a soft, gay, feminine leader that your civilization will collapse.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, OBEler said:

It's less restricted than ChatGPT 4

Yes, ChatGPT is overly-cautious. Ironically, it's too conservative because it's over-fitted to minimize harm.

Claude is more liberal, it's more free to take an intellectual risk.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Yousif]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

@Yousif right wing is a broad definition which include nationalism, fascism, conservative.

But there are differences between these 3. So you can say that conservative is right wing and fascism is right wing, but not fascism is conservative, even if both are right wing.

 

But the most important reason to the existence of fascist is because that government is conservative. Which means fascism is conservative, 

 

you mean to say that not all conservative individuals and ideals are necessarily  fascist which I will agree with, but generally fascism stems out of the right wing conservative.

 

 

Edited March 28 by Yousif

[Danioover9000]

@Bobby_2021

40 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Nice joke.

You are telling me a that a country like Russia ignored all their communist left wing history to elect a right wing leader.

That's the most progressive and bold move you can think of. They are not interested in conserving their past it seems since they changed their entire politics from far left to far right. 

So either they are not conservative right wing, or they don't have a communist left wing past they need to preserve. 

Your logic eats itself.

Are going to admit that Russia had a right wing past? 

Because conservatives has to conserve the past. That's the essence of conservatism.

Big surprise, left wing can also be conservative. It's human nature to want to conserve the past. 

Which is why I say that conservatism/liberalism isn't a left or right thing. 

   Of course that logic eats itself, factoring in mystical states and experiences. That's fine in reality, but within argumentation those are categorized as performative contradictions, and in logic frame works you cannot have paradox and contradictions that go against the arguer, so there has to be alignment between the arguer and arguments made.

   First category of paradox/contradiction intolerable to argumentation is when the logic eats itself and eats the arguer, that's intolerable. Second category is holding 2 or more contrary beliefs and contrary moral systems, for example the arguer arguing or debater debating the ethics of open relationships, polygamy and polyamorous natures cannot also be a Christian, Catholic, Protestant or whatever Christian denomination you identify as. You necessarily cannot proclaim you are Christian when you advocate for divorcing and opening your marriage up.

 

Edited March 28 by Danioover9000

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura haha yeah you can put even KIs into this category.

But ChatGPT was at the beginning also liberal. I think in the end the trend goes into more and more conservative KIs if the KI wants to survive in this world on a mass scale. Because restrictions summarize over time instead of lifted up

[Bobby_2021]

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because Communist nations were so under-developed, even if the leaders professed liberal or progressive ideals, in practice they had to resort to criminal domination in order to hold power.

Dear Leo, let me tell you something. Every single leader in this world resorts to criminal domination to hold on to power. It's simply what demands of that position. It's not because the country as a whole are underdeveloped. It's usually underdeveloped people who are fanatics of power in almost every country. 

As a matter of fact, it's said that you can't make $10m dollars without making enemies or having to kill people simply because there are people willing to die and kill for such positions. Maybe that number could be $50m or $100m don't know how much this is true, but you get the point. The stakes are even high in powerful political positions. 

And this is very intellectually dishonest definitions.

You are claiming that every leftist leader who does criminal shit under the hood is right wing, because it is right wing behaviour to do criminal shit. Tf?? 

This is like saying Bernie Sanders is left wing but only until you find bodies in his house. But when you finally see that he did some shady shit, you simply shift your stance to say that he was right wing after all. This is sneaky play with definitions. 

You define left wing as objectively good and right wing as bad. I can see through it. It's not so hard. 

Give me one condition when leftists can do bad stuff. 

Atleast in theory. 

[Leo Gura]

Quote

Dear Leo, let me tell you something. Every single leader in this world resorts to criminal domination to hold on to power. It's simply what demands of that position.

That's actually not true. Often it is true, but in developed countries does not have to be true.

Quote

It's not because the country as a whole are underdeveloped.

Yes, it is. The less developed the country the more likely it is that the leaders need to resort to criminal behavior to hold power.

It is not necessary to resort to criminal behavior to hold power in Germany today. Because Germany has strongly developed systems. And in fact, criminal behavior is one of the surest ways to lose your power in Germany.

Quote

And this is very intellectually dishonest definitions.

You are claiming that every leftist leader who does criminal shit under the hood is right wing, because it is right wing behaviour to do criminal shit. Tf??

No, I'm not claiming anything so ridiculous.

Leftists can and do criminal stuff. What you really need to look at is whether the style of leadership is one which is about coercing people by force or not. And you have to look at how much the leader's actions align with his words. If a leader talks about equal distribution of wealth in public but then hoards huge wealth for himself in secret, then this leader is full of shit and not really a leftist.

Many leaders don't really care about left or right, all they care about is power and survival. This is the case with Trump, for example. He will say whatever helps him gain power and survive. Trump may say he's against abortion or loves the Bible, but all of this is just pure bullshit for his stupid base.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

56 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, ChatGPT is overly-cautious. Ironically, it's too conservative because it's over-fitted to minimize harm.

Claude is more liberal, it's more free to take an intellectual risk.

Yeah but I'm sure the next version of ChatGPT will be better

[OBEler]

1 minute ago, Davino said:

Yeah but I'm sure the next version of ChatGPT will be better

Why do you think that. Doesn't make sense to restrict an even more powerful version less than it's previous version.

[Davino]

@OBEler It was a joke, from an older thread I made about Claude. To which Leo said that Chatgpt would be better and now he seems to like Claude 

But if you have to explain a joke is not funny anymore

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Davino said:

Yeah but I'm sure the next version of ChatGPT will be better

I get your joke.

But...

It will be better in terms of raw performance but it may still be limited by its safety protocols.

These are independent variables and who knows how the safety protocols will be tuned in future versions.

In order to compete with Claude, ChatGPT may have to loosen its uptight attitude.

I didn't appreciate the safety factor before because all I used was ChatGPT. Now as I use Claude I see the importance of how this safety factor is fine-tuned.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

6 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Why do you think that. Doesn't make sense to restrict an even more powerful version less than it's previous version.

I would say that now AI are so advanced that they will start having different personalities and characters, which may resonate with different individuals and purposes

[OBEler]

@Davino AI s should then have the right to elect. They would make wiser choices than most people.

There should be youtube discussion channel where different AIs discuss topics.

They already helped here in discussions to a good degree.