Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Nivsch]

@zazen Israel gets overall (not particulary about the current operation in Gaza but in general) bipartisan support which is way beyond only the Evangelicals.

12 hours ago, zazen said:

The modern state of Israel is God’s chosen nation, and its survival and expansion are necessary to fulfill Biblical prophecy.

I can agree that both Evangelicals and Smotrich and Ben Gvir voters have those lines of thinking you mentioned. Maybe the more right wing sector in the Likud (Bibi's party) too.

Edited April 2 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

9 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

So Turks have to give back Turkey to Greeks and so on?

 

Are the Greeks even asking for it back?

He was saying that Israel has a right as if it's some law written in stone. They don't have a right to steal. How absurd

Edited April 2 by Twentyfirst

[hundreth]

One thing that gets overlooked is how bad Oct 7th was strategically for the Palestinians.

Before Oct 7 Israel was mostly in a docile state and not focused on Gaza. They were increasing work permits and focused on removing Bibi from power. He had multiple corruption charges against him, elections happening every few months, etc.

It seemed inevitable that Israel was going to oust him in favor of some new leadership. And at this moment what do you? You launch a massive terrorist attack that kills hundreds of civilians. You give Netanyahu exactly what he wants and needs to stay in power.

Now it's a lose lose for everyone. Both sides got fucked.

[Raze]

16 minutes ago, hundreth said:

One thing that gets overlooked is how bad Oct 7th was strategically for the Palestinians.

Before Oct 7 Israel was mostly in a docile state and not focused on Gaza. They were increasing work permits and focused on removing Bibi from power. He had multiple corruption charges against him, elections happening every few months, etc.

It seemed inevitable that Israel was going to oust him in favor of some new leadership. And at this moment what do you? You launch a massive terrorist attack that kills hundreds of civilians. You give Netanyahu exactly what he wants and needs to stay in power.

Now it's a lose lose for everyone. Both sides got fucked.

Israel wasn’t “docile”. It was keeping millions of people under a brutal occupation and expanding illegal settlements in the West Bank. That’s like saying apartheid South Africa was docile. It was attempting to force normalization with Saudi Arabia without lifting the occupation of Palestinians, trying to trap them without any possible leverage to end their subjugation.

The blockade of Gaza was at the point where nearly half were unemployed and less than 10% had consistent access to clean water. Israel was jailing more and more Palestinians without charges. Hamas’s approval was cratering as the population was seeing the status quo as untenable with no way out. Netanyahu sending cash to Hamas and slightly increasing work permits was publicly reported as his attempt to buy quiet while he tried to circumvent the Palestine issue. 

There were plenty of prior leaders before Netanyahu, and none stopped the settlement expansion or ended the blockade of Gaza.

Israel not being focused on Gaza was the problem, if they think they can occupy endlessly without any consequence they have no reason to ever stop. For Hamas the destabilization Israel was facing and removing guards from Gaza could have been there last chance to deal a blow and stop normalization and the status quo from being locked in.

Edited April 4 by Raze

[hundreth]

7 minutes ago, Raze said:

Israel wasn’t “docile”. It was keeping millions of people under a brutal occupation and expanding illegal settlements in the West Bank. That’s like saying apartheid South Africa was docile. It was attempting to force normalization with Saudi Arabia without lifting the occupation of Palestinians, trying to trap them without any possible leverage to end their subjugation.

The blockade of Gaza was at the point where nearly half were unemployed and less than 10% had consistent access to clean water. Israel was jailing more and more Palestinians without charges. Hamas’s approval was cratering as the population was seeing the status quo as untenable with no way out.

There were plenty of prior leaders before Netanyahu, and none stopped the settlement expansion or ended the blockade of Gaza.

Israel not being focused on Gaza was the problem, if they think they can occupy endlessly without any consequence they have no reason to ever stop. For Hamas the destabilization Israel was facing and removing guards from Gaza could have been there last chance to deal a blow and stop normalization and the status quo from being locked in.

Any way you spin it, you cannot avoid how catastrophic the end result has been for the Palestinians. Ousting Netanyahu could have only been beneficial for them.

But you probably don't care about incremental wins, as anything that harms Israel must be for the greater good even if it harms Palestinians even worse.

The Palestinians really gained nothing from this. The Hamas lose lose strategy. 

[Lyubov]

Why the fuck is the USA still writing checks to Israel

[PurpleTree]

23 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Why the fuck is the USA still writing checks to Israel

The US right now is putting tariffs on all „allies“ saying they are grifting or whatever except…… Israel.

[Twentyfirst]

43 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Why the fuck is the USA still writing checks to Israel

Because the USA was founded off genocide off an indigenous population and still treat the Native Americans as second class citizens to this day. They love this kind of stuff

[Raze]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

The US right now is putting tariffs on all „allies“ saying they are grifting or whatever except…… Israel.

They did put some tariffs on Israel 

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Why the fuck is the USA still writing checks to Israel

 

 

Edited April 4 by Raze

[Raze]

3 hours ago, hundreth said:

Any way you spin it, you cannot avoid how catastrophic the end result has been for the Palestinians. Ousting Netanyahu could have only been beneficial for them.

But you probably don't care about incremental wins, as anything that harms Israel must be for the greater good even if it harms Palestinians even worse.

The Palestinians really gained nothing from this. The Hamas lose lose strategy. 

That remains to be seen. Netanyahu and Israel’s actions have lost Israel’s support among civil society, this could lead to major changes in the future.

 

[Nivsch]

@Raze What do you mean by civil society?

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Nivsch said:

@Raze What do you mean by civil society?

I mean popular opinion. 

[Nivsch]

6 hours ago, Raze said:

It was keeping millions of people under a brutal occupation

There is no argument that the situation is distorted and unhealthy and in friction zones, there is an oppressive policy and actions.

Nevertheless in most of the West Bank surface area Palestinians still live a decently independent and relatively free lives, though not entirely due to the checkpoints between major areas.

Do you think minorities in other neighboring countries do better? Mostly worse.

Although this is true that Israel as a democracy is expected to behave better, and that Palestinians deserve a real independent state, but exaggerations won't help advance the discussion anywhere.

Edited April 4 by Nivsch

[Raze]

44 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Nevertheless in most of the West Bank surface area Palestinians still live a decently independent and relatively free lives, though not entirely due to the checkpoints between major areas.

Do you think minorities in other neighboring countries do better? Mostly worse.

How do you know that? 

[gambler]

30 minutes ago, Raze said:

How do you know that? 

No he's right, Egyptian Copts, Lebanese Christians, Jordanian Christians, are going through the same amount of military occupation, movement restrictions, land stealing, settlement expansion, and military checkpoints as Palestinians. Imagine if the army of Cyprus took over mainland Israel and did the same thing to naturalized Israelis in their own land. Pushing them into spread out mini-Gazas, making them into refugees, bringing over Cypriots to steal their land, restricting and controlling their entire lives. That would be brutal and nothing short of it.

By the way, this guy is the last person to talk about exaggerations. He lied deliberately over and over again through this entire conflict that Israel's survival is on the line while he knew there was no threat to its survival.

This guy larps as Stage Yellow, but he's stage Blue.
He's no better than Ann Coulter.
This guy has a bias against Arabs and can't see them as real people. If you flip the situations around, he would not be consistent in his posting. He would not be saying the same thing. He would say these are brutal programs designed to destroy the Jews.
He and every single Jewish poster here do not help the stereotypes about them, they unconsciously (or consciously) perpetuate them.

Edited April 4 by gambler

[Nivsch]

43 minutes ago, Raze said:

How do you know that? 

My impression is based on division of the West Bank into Areas A, B, and C. In Area A which is under full Palestinian Authority control Palestinians live with more autonomy and less direct Israeli military presence, although the Israeli army can conduct limited operations targeting terrorists who have murdered Israelis, as was the case after the terror attack in Jaffa a couple of months ago (though I don’t know at this point in which area he lived).

Area B is more complicated, with Palestinian civil control but occasional Israeli military presence. This limits full freedom, but still allows for relatively independent daily life in many places, due to the Palestinian civil control, which seems quite logical to me.

Edited April 4 by Nivsch

[gambler]

We just need an Arab army to carve up mainland Israel into the same type of area divisions, doing the exact same thing done to the Palestinians, and let's see how quick the Jews here change their tune. 

[Raze]

10 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

My impression is based on division of the West Bank into Areas A, B, and C. In Area A which is under full Palestinian Authority control Palestinians live with more autonomy and less direct Israeli military presence, though Israeli army can do limited operations that targeted terrorists who have murdered Israelis for example after the terror attack in Jaffa couple of months ago (although I don't know for now in which area he lived).

Area B is more complicated, with Palestinian civil control but Israeli military control, which limits full freedom but still allows for relatively independent daily life in many places, due to the Palestinian civil control which is quite logical to my opinion.

They’ve displaced 40,000 from Area A which they are invading.

Go talk to Palestinians living in the West Bank and find out for yourself instead of assuming things based on a map. I believe groups like breaking the silence do tours. 

Edited April 4 by Raze

[gambler]

Just now, Raze said:

They’ve displaced 40,000 from Area A which they are invading.

Go talk to Palestinians living in the West Bank and find out for yourself. 

Let's expel him and call his suffering an exaggeration instead.