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Endless. No problem. Space is imagined, and your thinking sounds like 3D-thinking and bubbles. 3D-space, and any space, and any dimension (and be it n-dimensional) is just imagined. Space is not real. Absolute Reality is dimensionless and contains/manifests/imagines endless dimensions. Just add a 5h dimension to our 3D-world (and 4th dimension is time), and this 5th dimension is the endless amount of further perspectives/"beings" that are "forgotten" real-time. Et voila, you have endless beings/perspectives, but only one formless and infinite (and that is not not 3D-space or any space/dimension contained) fundamental Reality/Awareness. Add one more dimension and you have endless universes. Cluster them, loop them, do all kind of funny things with them. Mathematics can easily do that with Euclidian or Non-Euclidian dimensions, and mathematics is contained by Reality, so Reality can do it. Now mathematics can handle endless dimensions, and these can even be looped/contained/whatever funny non-euclidian dimensions are possible. Indras Net is just a simplified model/version of the One Reality looking through an Infinity of perspectives/beings/eyes. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Indras Net&author=Water by the River https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=leavitt&author=Water by the River

One month ago the following text was posted in a Facebook group of the integral community by Corey DeVos, one of Ken Wilber's top students and the current leader of the Integral Life community. It seems to me a fairly reasonable analysis, free from the delusion that Trump and company are Green: " “Some of the things that I say will be incorrect.” – Elon Musk, speaking at the White House with President Donald Trump. Rarely has a single sentence carried so much unintentional truth. Elon Musk, the self-styled warrior for free speech and government transparency, admitted openly that his statements are not always accurate. But as it turns out, the word “some” in that quote is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The Importance of Truthfulness: An Integral Perspective Integral Metatheory emphasizes that validity claims—whether about truth, rightness, or sincerity—are only as strong as the credibility of the one making them. Musk’s repeated misinformation fundamentally undermines his ability to assert credible truth claims across all dimensions: Truthfulness (Upper Left - Subjective Validity): A speaker’s sincerity and track record of truth-telling affects how their claims are received. If someone persistently misrepresents reality, they erode their own credibility. Objective Truth (Upper Right - Empirical Validity): Facts must hold up under verification. Musk’s distortions crumble under scrutiny, revealing a consistent pattern of falsehoods. Cultural Legitimacy (Lower Left - Intersubjective Validity): Shared trust in discourse allows societies to function. Musk’s misinformation corrodes the shared reality necessary for sense-making, leading to social fragmentation. Functional Fit (Lower Right - Systems Validity): Effective governance and policy-making require accurate data. Musk’s fabrications exaggerate dysfunctions and disrupt institutional integrity, making real problem-solving more difficult. By repeatedly distorting the truth, Musk not only damages his own reputation but also contributes to a larger breakdown in epistemic trust, making public discourse increasingly chaotic and dysfunctional. Over the past month, Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has been caught in multiple lies and mistruths, exaggeration after exaggeration, often fabricating scandals out of thin air. DOGE was supposedly created to eliminate wasteful government spending, yet it has possibly manufactured more fake scandals than actual savings. Let’s break down the biggest lies Musk has told, why they are false, and what his broader strategy appears to be. --- 1. The $55 Billion Lie: Fake Cost Savings DOGE proudly claimed to have saved $55 billion in government spending. That number quickly fell apart under scrutiny. - Reality Check: DOGE’s own website only accounted for $16.6 billion in savings—less than a third of what Musk initially claimed. - Even worse, nearly half of those savings came from an accounting mistake. Musk and DOGE misstated an $8 million ICE contract as an $8 billion savings. That’s an error of 1,000x. - Final tally? DOGE’s real cost savings were a fraction of what was advertised. --- 2. The Social Security Fraud That Wasn’t Musk and Trump claimed that millions of dead people were fraudulently receiving Social Security benefits. - Reality Check: Social Security’s total improper payment rate is less than 1%—and most of those errors go to living people, not the deceased. - The SSA’s outdated software can sometimes show people over 150 years old due to a default setting in COBOL, but this does not mean those people are receiving benefits. - Payments automatically stop for anyone over 115 years old. - Final tally? A completely manufactured crisis that misled the public about Social Security’s actual problems. --- 3. The Fake “Media Payoff” Politico Scandal Musk and Trump falsely claimed that USAID paid Politico $8 million as a bribe to create good stories about Democrats. - Reality Check: In truth, USAID's payments to Politico totaled $44,000, primarily for subscriptions to E&E News, which covers energy and environmental topics. The $8 million figure refers to the combined amount spent by various federal agencies on Politico subscriptions, a standard practice for accessing specialized news and analysis. These payments are for subscriptions, not political payoffs. - The New York Times, Associated Press, and Reuters all confirmed that government payments to media companies are standard transactions for research and reporting purposes. - Final tally? A misleading claim that distorts routine government expenditures on information resources into a baseless scandal, designed to undermine the free press. --- 4. The $50 Million in Condoms Lie DOGE and Trump’s press secretary Karoline Leavitt claimed that USAID spent $50 million on condoms in Gaza. - Reality Check: No evidence has ever surfaced that USAID spent this money. Further investigations revealed that the funding in question was actually related to a USAID program in Gaza Province, Mozambique—not the Gaza Strip in the Middle East. - Trump later inflated the false claim to $100 million, making the lie even more absurd. - Final tally? A completely invented outrage based on a geographical mix-up, used to distract from real policy debates. --- 5. The Fort Knox Gold Conspiracy Musk speculated publicly that the U.S. gold reserves at Fort Knox might be missing. - Reality Check: There is no evidence that any gold is missing. - A 2017 audit confirmed the reserves are intact. - Final tally? A conspiracy theory dressed up as investigative skepticism. --- 6. The Celebrity Propaganda Hoax Musk spread false claims that USAID paid celebrities like Ben Stiller and Angelina Jolie to visit Ukraine and pose with President Zelenskyy. - Reality Check: Stiller and Penn publicly denied receiving money, and there is zero evidence USAID funded their trips. - Final tally? A baseless smear campaign amplified by Musk’s social media empire. --- 7. The Reuters “Social Deception” Lie Musk claimed the Department of Defense paid Reuters $9 million for propaganda. Reality Check: A glance at the purchase order reveals that the payment was not even made to Reuters, the media outlet. Instead, it was directed to Thomson Reuters Special Services LLC, a separate legal and research entitythat provides data analysis services. Not only that, but the payment was initiated by the Trump administration in 2018, well before Musk’s current accusations. The contract was funded by DARPA’s ASED program, which focuses on defending against social engineering attacks, not promoting propaganda. Final tally? A misrepresentation designed to provoke outrage, which MAGA supporters quickly ate up, leading to Trump raging on TruthSocial that the Reuters media outlet needed to return the money. --- 8. The Bizarre Video Game Lies If Musk is willing to lie about trivial things, how can he be trusted with government reform? Enter: the gaming controversy. - Musk claimed to be one of the top-ranked Diablo IV and Path of Exile 2 players in the world. - Reality Check: When he livestreamed himself playing, gamers immediately noticed he had no idea what he was doing. His characters had impossible gear, likely acquired by paying others to play for him. - Musk was also mocked for his nonsensical Elden Ring build, which featured two shields and no healing flask—rookie mistakes. - Final tally? Why even lie about this? If Musk is willing to fake gaming achievements, what else is he fabricating? --- 9. Even Musk’s Own AI Confirms He Spreads Misinformation Musk’s AI chatbot, Grok, which was designed by his own company xA and touted by Musk’s supporters as an unbiased, truth-based, “non-woke” AI platform, publicly admits that Musk is one of the biggest sources of misinformation on X. In multiple response to a user inquiries, Grok stated things like “there is substantial evidence” of Musk spreading false information, particularly about elections, misleading billions of people. Musk markets Grok as a “maximally truth-seeking AI”, yet his own creation has pointed out his role in promoting misinformation. Final tally? Even Musk’s own technology calls him out for misleading the public. --- The Myth of the Billionaire Bodhisattva Elon Musk has masterfully crafted an image of himself as a world-saving genius, a techno-mystic, and a benevolent billionaire whose sole purpose is to guide humanity toward a brighter future. Through grandiose promises of Mars colonization, AI safety initiatives, and meme-fueled libertarianism, he has cultivated a mythology of the billionaire as a Bodhisattva—an enlightened being sacrificing for the good of all. However, this image crumbles under scrutiny: Musk’s humanitarian gestures often appear self-serving—such as offering to buy Twitter in the name of “free speech,” only to turn it into a haven for his preferred ideological narratives. His technological promises frequently fall short—like the Hyperloop, Neuralink, and self-driving Teslas, which remain largely unfulfilled hype rather than reality. Rather than uplifting discourse, Musk has used his influence to spread disinformation, attack journalists, and stoke division, often for entertainment. Some argue, “Musk is already a billionaire—why would he want more money or power?” But this question ignores an essential truth: no one becomes a billionaire without aggressive self-interest. Billionaires are not known for their restraint; rather, they often exhibit a dragon-like obsession with wealth and power. The idea that Musk has somehow transcended the forces that created his fortune is a dangerous illusion, one that allows him to operate unchecked while convincing the public that his motives are pure. The contrast between the myth of Musk and the reality of Musk is vast. Far from being an altruistic force, Musk increasingly appears to be a political operator using technology as a smokescreen for power consolidation. --- Musk’s Playbook: How to Manufacture a Scandal Musk’s repeated falsehoods are not accidental—they follow a clear, repeatable strategy: 1. Invent a scandal. Take a normal government practice and distort it beyond recognition, presenting it as "fraud". 2. Amplify it on X. Spread the misinformation through Musk’s massive social media following. 3. Politicize it to attack the media, government, or NGOs. Frame it as a deep-state conspiracy. 4. Ignore or double down when debunked. Never acknowledge the lie—just move to the next one. This feedback loop of misinformation is highly effective. It keeps Musk’s followers angry, engaged, and primed to believe the next manufactured outrage. --- Conclusion: The Real Purpose of DOGE DOGE was not created to increase government efficiency — it was created to weaponize government oversight as a political tool. But the real goal goes beyond merely “owning the libs” or attacking wasteful spending; it is about sustaining a state of perpetual outrage among Trump supporters. This outrage serves a deeper function: it creates a false sense of a stolen or broken system that must be radically “fixed,” even if that requires unconstitutional actions. Musk and Trump are not just fabricating scandals for sport; they are doing it to justify extreme, authoritarian measures in response to the crises they themselves manufacture. By continually stoking these false narratives, they give their base the cultural permission to support radical changes to democracy itself—changes that they frame as necessary corrections to a “rigged” system. This is how they claim a mandate for extreme action despite receiving less than 50% of the vote. The more they can convince their supporters that the entire system is corrupt, the easier it becomes to dismantle or bypass it entirely. Moreover, when you have access to a trillion data points, it becomes incredibly easy to selectively release certain ones in order to drive a particular narrative. When there are a trillion stars in the sky, you can draw whatever constellations you want, to sell whatever mythology you want to sell. Musk understands this intuitively, which is why his version of “truth-seeking” is little more than an exercise in narrative construction—selecting just the right stars to draw the most useful picture to benefit his personal and ideological bottom line. And yet, there is something patently, objectively absurd about cheering on the richest man in the history of the world, as he gains unfettered access to the levers of power in the richest nation in the history of the world, with no oversight or accountability for obvious conflicts of interest. The idea that Musk is a countercultural populist rebel, rather than a consolidator of elite power, is one of the greatest scams of the 21st century. His self-fashioned image as a maverick outsider allows him to act with fewer checks and balances than nearly any other political or corporate figure in modern times. Elon Musk’s relentless flood of lies, exaggerations, and distortions proves that he is not a truth-seeker, but a master manipulator. From fabricating billion-dollar savings to lying about Social Security fraud to inflating media conspiracy theories, Musk is engaged in a full-scale war on reality. And if he’s willing to lie about playing video games, why should anyone trust a single word he says about the government? -written in collaboration with 4o " Corey DeVos

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/28/politics/white-house-drones/index.html White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt said reported drone sightings that sparked panic in New Jersey last month were drones authorized to fly by the Federal Aviation Administration and “not the enemy.” Leavitt made the announcement — the most significant since drone paranoia took off in December — in her first briefing from the White House press room after President Donald Trump said on December 16 “something strange is going on and for some reason they don’t want to tell the people.” “After research and study, the drones that were flying over New Jersey in large numbers were authorized to be flown by the FAA for research and various other reasons,” Leavitt said, saying she was reciting a statement from the president.

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=leavitt&author=Water by the River

@emil1234 For Marc Leavitt "it" "went down" the same way, with some further Awakenings into Oneness down the line. "The" Void. Behind your head. Beyond the bubble of the visual field. Spaceless vastness. Infinite. Timeless. Deep Sleep. Death. Eternity. Yet, pure potential. And actually, the groundless essence/suchness of every appearance. The substance-less "substance"or suchness of all possible realms. Groundless ground, "falling" into the Infinite. "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head" Remove any concepts/imaginations of space from "it". Probing with your focus of attention into it only leads to more imagined space, but not spaceless/infinite. Make "it" genuine limitlessness. Boundless. Spaceless. Infinite. "It" is larger than an Infinity of space and endless dimension. "It" contains them all... Jump? jump?? jump! Now you just need to find out what you are, and what "others" are. And in what these states of void, dream, wake and deep sleep "roll" before. Maybe there is no "you" if "you" don't imagine yourself (I-feelings, I-thoughts)? Maybe IT sees only ITSELF, in everything that appears which is IT, but no you? Maybe there is only THAT? Impersonal Infinite Vastness, able to imagine "small" "you", I-feelings and I-thoughts imagined and moving in IT? Switch it/you on, and switch it/you off if IT is so inclined? And maybe THAT is YOU? And then, maybe, all "it" and "void" and "other" becomes Infinite You. Or rather, it is understood to have always been this way. Just with some illusions/ignorance before this true state of things was realized again. PS: Leavitt, Enlightenment: Behind the Scenes. Could speed up the clarification... PS PS: Like @Yimpa wrote, the tip of a magnificent infinite endless awe-inspiring iceberg....

Marc leavitt, sounds direct to the point. That's the subtle difference between the narcissist and the true mystic. The first thinks that he is God and that he is creating reality. The second moves away and reality is.

Marc Leavitt, Enlightenment — Behind the scenes. And for all the ladies and gentlemen of the category „speak from your own experience“: Bless their heart ( ; Yours truly is still on vacation. And why reinvent the wheel all the time… especially on the islands of eternal spring? „So, overnight, I went from being considered a nihilist (someone who thinks that they are ‘nothing’) to a solipsist (someone who thinks that they are. ‘the only thing’). I really do understand these criticisms. You can’t expect to go running around ranting and raving about the world being an illusion and not be called a ‘nihilist’ or a ‘world denier.’ Likewise, you can’t go around screaming that you are the Space for everything in existence and not be called a megalomaniac or a solipsist. But there is actually a tremendous difference between me and the nihilist as well as the solipsist. For example, when I say that the world is an illusion, I am not saying that the world doesn’t exist but instead that the world is actually God or Awareness. I never denied the fact that the world ‘appears.’ My point was that what we consider to be a fixed and solid world is actually God/Awareness manifesting as form. Going back to my analogy of the rainbow ... I am not denying the appearance of the rainbow. I am only saying that the rainbow is not a fixed and solid actual thing, but instead that the rainbow is actually ungraspable Light. So, when I point out the fact that the world is actually an illusion, it is not meant to denigrate the world but instead to glorify it by recognizing its true and profound nature. The difference between myself and the solipsist is that in my experience, I had to see that I was nothing before I could see that I was everything. In fact, in my experience, it was the very surrendering of the idea that I was some-thing that led me to the perspective that I was actually everything. I understand that this still sounds awfully close to saying that you are God but it would actually only be correct to say that God is you. After all, it is only in your absence that God appears.“ Especially the second paragraph in bold letters is not so en vogue at this forum,so…. : Probably, that won’t get many horses to drink from the Water by the River (because it, uhhh, kills, and the horses seem to dislike that mostly), but hey… gotta do it anyway. One never knows if there is a sufficiently suicidal horse that has ripened enough beyond the still well and alive ego=God crowd… A good start in 2024 to everyone!

There is nothing than the Absolute, only the Absolute, containting its manifestation. The other beings/perspectives can also only be this One Reality. And that there is Awareness in them as their essence, and that this is the One Pure Impersonal Awareness, is a direct realization available in certain awakened nondual states. That is enough! The "other" human beings are not non-player-characters. The feel the same as you. There essence IS you. And the other way round. This non-euclidian space vision Leavitt had is the way Reality can communicate this insight. A teaching tool communicated by Reality itself. Way better than Solipsism + all others are non-player-characters. That is just not the case. They are all the ONE Player, appearing as many. Leavitts vision is not the defining factor necessary to verify that other beings/perspectives ARE the same Impersonal Pure Awareness. The defining factor is Enlightenment, as described above. That is no belief-system, but a direct realization. As I wrote, take the Leavitt Picture of the non-euclidian space of perspectives/Indras Net as useful working model. It as a useful pointer to calm the mind on the question of others (the Solipsism belief-system), and practice nonceptual empty impersonal awakened states to get to nondual states and then realize what you are. That will answer the questions. Sure you can turn anything into an belief system. But then one better uses useful pointers or belief system that actually point at the moon to realize the moon. Not pointers pointing to the street-light and realizing then the street-light and thinking its the moon. One doesn't need to understand the workings of a steam machine in order to know its essence: steel. And one will never figure out the workings of Reality in its manifested details. Its infinity. God is busy exploring all of that, forever. If the fascination for figuring out all details of the steam machine fascinates so much that one doesn't realize its essence of Pure Impersonal Awareness (but thinks one has done it, but didn't, and hasn't got nondual awakened states sobre this way) and the essence of each and every possible differently designed steam engine, and suffers in a grasping way for experiencing ever more steam machines because one is bored or suffers because one hasn't realized ones essence.... Very actualized, indeed.

You don't need to experience the content of the mindstream of other perspectives to understand their essence/Awareness/Being. Only a fraction of Full Enlightenment descriptions contain a description like Leavitts Picture. And actually, there is no need for that. Structure/essence vs. content. Why it is that way can not really be communicated in language, but becomes clear once realization happens: a) When the last remnants for separation/individuality/separate-self are realized as just arisings in the Infinite Boundless Opening of Absolute Reality/Awareness, and the essence of each and every arising is realized to be a manifestation of THAT, there can be nothing outside/beyond/other to that. It is limitless, boundless and infinite. All there is and can be. Absolute Reality itself. b) The realization that there is nothing other than that Reality excludes the possiblity that there are other "Awarenesses" outside of that. c) And for the validity that each being has the same Pure Impersonal Awareness as its essence: That is a direct realization of just looking at one "other" being/perspective in these enlightened states. It is you. But here, I can not convince you with words or concepts. Train towards these nondual infinite pure empty Awareness states for yourself, and see. a) b) and c) is enough for Full Realization of Reality (and the essence of all possible beings). But like I said, I never claimed I can proove that to anyone without that being having Realization/Enlightenment. And I can't transfer that via text. No one can. Yet the model of Leavitt is a model that makes much more intuitive sense than the standard solipsistic "I exist and all other beings are blank puppets without Awareness or Non-Player-Characters so to say". That view is hazardous for awakening, it ends in Nihilism and Narcissism. That is the only reason I argue against it. It is a bad pointer that leads into the claws of ego and self-contraction and not liberation.

The outer part of their node in Indras Net (their body) is what is visible in the visual field. The "Interiority" or their Awareness/Consciousness is also directly realized. As yourself. But your True Self, totally empty Impersonal Awareness. What you think what you are as separate self is obviously not compatible with Absolute Impersonal Pure Awareness, since its "loaded" with identities/properties/I-thoughts and so on. But the True Impersonal Pure Awareness in which this all arises is the same in other beings as in you. That is why its so important getting to such impersonal Pure Awareness States, because only in these empty/impersonal Pure Awareness states do nondual/Unity states arise and develop without psychedelics. And only in these can the Absolute Nondual Reality be realized. Every other not impersonal empty Pure Awareness state covers the inherent True Nature with clouds of illusion covering it. But that must be realized, there is no shortcut describing that fully with words/concepts. The second part is a good question: You are not aware of all perspectives manifesting right now. Do you know what you did exactly one year ago? I don't. So we admit forgetting in time. The challenging part is only admitting that forgetting other perspectives in space is also possible. That is why the vision of Leavitt is so helpful to understand how Reality/True You manages to do that. And the really interesting part is that he had non-euclidian space (which can hold infinite perspectives) in that vision. When the full nondual realization is in place it is directly realized and clear anyway. But until then the vision of Leavitt can help keeping oneself open that all others beings are exactly NOT Non-Player-Characters, but YOU. It quiets these doubt-arising about how all beings can be you, lets you rest in Impersonal Pure Awareness, and when these states ripen to nondual states of Pure Impersonal Awareness/boundless nondual Totality, then in these states true realization can happen. The picture of Leavitt and all these concepts alone, proove nothing of that.

That is a pointer to the Absolute Leavitt uses. Nothing is not a bad pointer for the infinite/empty aspect, the Unmanifested Side of Infinite Consciousness. Better is Nothingness, because its harder to imagine some object with that, and be it just emptiness silence. And raging refers to the Manifested Side of Arisings, which is a wild divine dance of manifestation/arising. If you want to understand the pointers given by Leavitt and how to interpret them, what he means by them, please feel free to read the book. And if you prefer, we can also use the clap of the one hand, Raspberry, or just silence. I am pretty flexible on that. The signifier (word) doesn't count as much as the referent (Realization of the Absolute). And if the Referent is realized/known, then pointers work. And if not, then not.

" where are the infinite multiverses? and the rats, intelligent and stupid? and razard?" There are no multiverses. Only the perspectives of each holon/being of which these apparent multiverses "persist", or rather are imagined. Indras Net of perspectives, each perspective reflecting and containing all other perspectives/beings/holons/crystals in Indras Net. Picture in the post above (also shown below). Non-Euclidian-Space can contain infinite perspectives, something like in the vision of Marc Leavitt: And the One with a second, or Absolute Infinite Impersonal Consciousness holds and watches all these perspectives, but a "human"-perspective/being is unaware of all the other perspectives, or forgets them "in space", like we normally forget things "in time". Reality is made of perspectives, each perspective containing/reflecting each other, and the "aware" "thing" is the same in all of them: Infinite Impersonal Consciousness. It is also the essence of any appearance appearing in a perspective. But it is impersonal, so empty it feels like death. There is no separate-self, and it doesn't need to make I-feelings or I-thoughts (the separate self, ego) appear. As a molecule, or animal, it can do fine without.... For more of that theory that reality is made of Holons, or perspectives, or Indras Net, see Ken Wilber "Sex, Ecology, Spirituality". Maybe that is interesting for you. Selling Water by the River

No, that dream just happened. I didn't contemplate about that too much. Sure I did contemplate the topic, but I never had real problems with that. A bit yes, but not too much. Maybe because when that contemplation of "other" became a real existential topic, I was already practicing (and concentrated on) staying in boundless changeless limitless Awakened Awareness (infinite, nondual, mere appearance). When you are in that state, it doesn't freak you out that "others" don't really exist, but one can directly intuit that the same Impersonal Consciousness that Oneself and Reality really is, is also the substratum/essence (Nothingness/Consciousness) of their mindstream. You can intuit/feel their Illusion-arisings of I-feelings/I-thoughts of being something specific as being exactly(!) the same as the illusion arisings in ones own mindstream. The exact same mechanism how "others" fall for the illusion, as oneself does and did. Once one knows the structure/pattern/gestalt/essence of ones own Illusion separate self arisings, one sees them in "others", or other perspectives of the same consciousness. That doesn't cause shock, but limitless empathy. It is You (not the separate self, but the real you, Impersonal Consciousness, totally empty), litereally You looking through all eyes. That is the core and source of all empathy, but now without any filters and flowing freely, directly intuiting und knowing that it is You looking through all eyes. Then, where should the shock come from? All beings are children of the Real You, Impersonal Empty Consciousness (not a of separate self blown up to God-like proportions). Including what one formerly thought was "oneself". Only the separate self arisings/gestalt need "others" for love, validation, belongingness, self-esteem, the whole Maslow-Pyramid stage 1-4 up and down is made out of that. Couldn't be different to get a society going & surviving. Impersonal Consciousness and the bliss flowing from it doesn't need it. So it could make sense to transcend all of that already to a large degree before entering the terrain where there is no "other". The gentlemen who wrote "Enlightenment: Behind The Scenes, Leavitt" describes his final Enlightenment experience when he directly realized that he IS his daugther. Literally the same consciousness. Not as metaphor, but literally. Didn't cause a shock, but infinite love. Disclaimer (not written for you Breakingthewall): All of the above is only valid when one speaks from an Identity and mindstream of Impersonal Empty Consciousness, not from the perspective of a psychedelic boosted separate self (or even worse, not even having the psychedelic experience and just playing playing mind-games having watched some videos), blowing itself up to God-like dimensions and playing God. The entrance price for all of that is literally the transcendence/death of large or most parts of the separate self, and the final price is its complete demise/complete transcendence (transcendence of the separate self part, and then include the remaining functional character. Transcend and integrate, not transcend and disassociate, see Ken Wilber). Death/Transcendence not of the functional character/Ego, but of the separate self arisings. The main indicator for the separate self still being well, alive and active is narcissm, or self-grandiosity and self-importance. Preferably in the form of preaching from upon high. On the other side, that is not even a bad thing, because then every newbie with at least some intuition, common sense, and a not too narcisstic karma can spot that from a mile away. Instead of transcending/slowly annihilating the separate self, one boosts it up to God-like dimensions with doing that. Good luck ever transcending that! Doing something like that can destroy ones life. There have been cases like that, final station mental asylum or next life, or in the "best case" just a miserable unintegrated life full of suffering- end of disclaimer - I don't know if that view/frame helps. Maybe it is a nice exercise to feel deeply into the essence/consciousness of what you are, and then deeply into the consciousness/sentience of "another"? Its the same Nothingness/Consciousness. One can directly experience that (if oneself is completely empty, just pure impersonal consciousness). It is not philosophy or a nice idea, but a direct experience. But one has to be completely empty. The own lense of perception has to be completely empty of separate self arisings (=high speed cut off of any of these arisings before they grip/hypnotize oneself and elaborate fully, Trekchö-style. Needs familiarity, training and high-speed of attention/spotting, aka the goal of meditation. Please see my last decription-posting of the Pointing out the Great Way Mahamudra system, link below), only then one can intuit that. A colored lense with stains will not let that intuition/understanding pass. As second step, one can feel that essence of every appearance of the visual field as Nothingness, hovering as mere appearance in infinite Nothingness, at a certain point of practice Which is necessary at some point, because as Daniel Brown said: One can not understand the Totality/Wholeness from a partialized stance. Nonduality has to be there before that understanding. One has to literally become all phenomena appearing in the Infinite Boundless Changeless Awakened Awareness field (that is Nonduality), and then see what all of that is and who or what is aware of that. Then, at the end of the Road, Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness IS everything: Your Mindstream, the mindstream of others, the appearance of the world in the visual field, every though/feeling. Infinite, boundless, limitless, nondual all there ever could be. Everything that could ever appear appears in that, made out of that suchness/Nothingness/Consiousness as its essence. Then, one experiences/becomes/is... Home/safe/Indestructable/eternal: And that actually is not shocking. But if feels like one is at home, now and always, wherever you go in relative reality. No Fear: Somewhere in the Upanishads it says "Where there is other there is fear". If there is only oneself, which is indestructable (no moving parts, just Nothingness that can't disappear), there is no fear. Infinite Love: The recognition that there is no other in the whole kosmos, but only the suchness of ones being, bound together in a infinite nondual field of love Infinite Freedom: When the bliss/love of your own indestructable infinite true being flows, what could you ever want that you don't get, or ever be taken away from you? Total freedom. Then we have Eternal/Indestructable, Fearless, Love, and infinite Freedom. But before one gets there, the illusion-mechanism/Maya/Lila had to place some strong "illusion-protection-mechanisms" in front of these properties of the enlightened mindstream, because if it wouldn't scare the separates selves, who in his right mind wouldn't attach his own mindstream to these properties of the enlightened mindstream. And the strongest one is probably the need for "other" or "others", Maslow stage 1-4. Somehow I mostly fail to write short posts. Maybe I need to go to a training "Concise writing for Dummies" who went off the deep end of Emptiness... Selling Water by the River

Hi Mike, I am not sure if I fully get your questions. If my answer below is not on topic, please excuse, and let me know. Below are some ramblings on the topic of space, and how it developed for me going from "self-existing-reality-aspect" to "imagined in Reality/Infinite Consciousness". which was one of the deciding steps boosting nonduality/mere groundless appearance in everyday life, making the constant intuiting of fundamental Nothingness/Reality much more proficient. At least for me, space itself was one of the last things to go from "self-existing" to imagined. "Time" as concept goes before, and is replaced by the Always Here Mind/Reality. Space is one of the first "Archetypes" necessary for manifestation in this dimension, and one of the last things to be seen through. Space is not fundamental (or self-existing), it is also imagined. Space (any kind, 3D, 4D, non-euclidian, whatever. Infinite amounts of different space-dimensions in Mathematics) is not any kind of Absolute Reality. It took me a long time to get this, thinking along quite similiar lines of thought as these you write above. Space is normally seen as such a fundamental that (at least for me) didn't even considering questioning that, or rather wondered how space "fits into the picture" of Ultimate Reality,which has cost me quite some time. The perspectives of Consciousness/Reality of the Leavitt picture (hyperbolic Euclidian Space of Visual Fields Bubbles, see previous posts) are not situated in any kind of space. The "Absolute or Nothingness/Primary Consciousness/Reality unaware of itself when no arising is imagined" is more fundamental than space. It is fundamentally totally spaceless. Space is imagined in it. As one of the first arisings. If there is nothing, there is no kind of space. Just Infinite Potential. See the Massaros Waterpistol example (Conversations with a Skeptic) I wrote about in previous posts. With space, I mean any kind of space, 3D, non-Euclidian, n+1 dimensions. Also, Indras Net is not situated in space. Leavitts Picture is a version of Indras Net. Both taken together are a nice working model. An Infinity of perspectives are imagined, and all but your own perspective forgotten in space. Psychedelics can loosen that quite a lot, you get access to more than "your" perspective of this life. But One Absolute Consciousness/Reality is aware of them all (since there can not be anything else than THAT, which is also a direct realization), and "that" also happens to be the stuff/material of all appearances, totally nondual. Perceptions perceiving themselves. And with no appearance/arising, this Reality is unware of itself, but with the potential for sentience. To make it more practical: If you have ever remained aware while going from Dream Sleep to waking state (or the other way round): There is a spaceless state in between, with NOTHING arising. Infinite. No Space. "vast", but not even vast. Just infinite. It is not 3D-Space. Just Nothing. No separate small you. Only Infinite Potential. Similiar to Deep Sleep (blackout), but like an infinite Nothingness/darkness suffused with light, timeless since there is no movement, just nothing. Your perspective is not situated in space then. Space gets imagined in the dream, and in "waking-life", so "before" or "after" THAT (and to be more precise, since there is no time/change in it, it all gets imagined IN IT). And of course, waking life is also a dream, just more coherent, happening in IT/You/Reality. With enough meditation/practice awareness can carry into these states, and instead of the usual Deep Sleep Blackout it can become something as described above, which of course makes the structure of reality more clear. Maya-Deep-Sleep-Blackout replaced by something more revealing (Infinite Darkness suffused with light, and not just a blackout). And I know, all of that is imagind right now, but these states still can occur. And its quite beneficial for understanding to experience them. All this logical reasoning can't get you to the big Awakening into what You really are. But a coherent explanation can help calm the thinking-mind during meditation (on or off the pillow), especially when its no longer only concentrative meditation, but meditation without concentration-support-object, and make it "compatible" for the Realization. And can help you boost your nondual/mere appearance visual field during that. With that goal, I write these lines. Not to logically get you to a conclusion/reasoning that you are IT, but to open the door to be available for that Realization in certain fully nondual states when you are fully empty of separate self arisings, and all perceptions appear as mere appearance. But I agree that the Zen-guys are way smarter than me: They would just mainly stay shut up, smile at you and make you meditate (boost nondual states), and say something like "go looking for the face before your parents were born". Which is actually the same thing I try to point to above. It is up for the reader if these ramblings of mine are of any worth. The Realization is a direct insight/understanding, Consciousness/Reality understanding itself, since there is nothing else. It is not "I always come to this conclusion, that is why I can rule out the rest, so that must be it". That is all nice and good (and necessary), some of the preliminary Awakenings/Enlightenments coming before the Big Bang, necessary to a certain degree and profiency to make the Mindstream "compatible" for the Big Bang. It is more like something undeniable, like a punch in the face. It is an unmistaken insight into what the True You/Reality are, no doubt/error possible. Self evident. Dead-certain (literally). The possibility that one can be gaslit on that Realization is something like a joke occuring in You/Reality. Or, as said in Zen: You can smile the devil in the face, and not be shaken in your certainty of What You are. Or: Who knows the spring does not drink from the cup. If "you" still can doubt it, it is not It. The more compatible your mindstream is with the Enlightened Mind (meaning no possible concept not seen through as thought arisings-in you, the last to go after space is "individuality" of a separate anything), the higher the chance for the Big Bang described above. Small "you" can't force it, but create circumstances where IT can happen (That is a large chunk of the essence of Nonmeditation-Yoga in Mahamudra). You become the whole Infinite "Thing" afterwards, with nobody watching "It". Perceptions perceiving themselves, Steven Norquist style. See my last post if you are so inclined. And yes, that haunted emptiness is the price to pay. But it just happens to look like there is a "real" price to pay, looking like that from before that Gateless Gate. Having gone through it, there never was a price to pay. To the opposite, you win It all. Everything. Everything there could ever be. What you "loose" is just the grip of the separate thinking/feeling arisings of the separate-self-Gestalt, which was nothing more than a a pattern of illusion-arisings (technically (and beware, reductionism ahead): patterns of phenomena-arisings of a separate self=structure=probability distribution of arising, a process of arisings with a certain systematic to it). Arising in you, but not self-existing: You can happily exist without it. What remains is Reality itself, and a person that isn't less functional than before, but more so (because you are not standing in the way of the optimal rollout of Consciousness/Reality). Short form: "I am not a human, I have a human". To fully get it, you need to awaken to it. Or said differently: If you would fully understand all of the above, you would be realized. On how long its stays "haunted", and how much this haunted reaction lasts: I write more about that in my last post. Maybe that is interesting for you, and I hope I didn't miss the questions too much. If I would have known that back in the day, I would have been faster and could have avoided some time-consuming mistakes. That is why I write it, not to lecture anybody or proove any fixed ideas of mine. The Ego is in large parts a cluster of beliefs, which it has to defend life-or-death style, because for the Ego its exactly that (at least with important core-beliefs). Similiar to what the bear does in the video in the signature of the post. If its not useful for you, just disregard it. In case I rambled on, please excuse the deviation. Selling Water by the River PS: If anyone feels inclined to comment on the post, please check if the bear-move in the link below (signature of the post) is being performed or not, and preferably the Blackeyes Peas and "Where is the love" (or something similiar) is being played in your emotional continuum. Then, any questions, comments, and suggestions are even more welcome than when the song is not playing. PSPS: "If God as you say are exploring though us does that mean those two bodies in that conversation is not looking at each other but that God is imagining and holding both of them within itself? And all these ideas of eyes and perception that aren’t actually in my direct experience are the ways I’ve been taking a false ownership of what’s really God’s experience of the other body as something belonging to my body?" Yes, pretty much like that. Various aspects: 1) Leavitts Non-Euclidian perspectives style, and most perspectives forgotten + 2) Indras Net that any perspective reflects all others + 3) aspect that for example even an atom or molecule has some kind of proto-perspective, reacting on similiarly leveled perspectives (=Holons in Ken Wilbers system, and similiar leveled = other molecules). And Holons/Perspectives all the way down (to infinity, quarks, ....) and all the way up (to infinity, like Galaxy-governing-monads, Universe-governing-monads, Multiverse-creating/sustaining/governing monads, and infinitely higher up n+1, and also completely "OTHER" realms, unimaginable to human mind with space/time/.... For that, see Jac O'Keeffe). And then one could start wondering of how much of that one can have explored/understood of all that manifested stuff in one single human lifetime. Next to Nothing. Infinitesimal so to say, if one is mathematically-prone. So maybe instead one fully realize ones essence and structure of Ultimate Reality/True You as Infinite/Nondual/Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness, and LIVE THAT as much as possible? With the bliss it brings? Not to talk about the "hang-over" of the (imagined of course) good Karma/tendencies that brings for ones next imagined manifestation (only if one is inclined to believe in that, which is of course not absolutely real, but part of the imagined show). But that would still be nice for the big show that "we" are all celebrating here So basically, with that model above, you don't need space as self-existing reality. Any maybe consider replacing the God word with some bundle like "Infinite Consciousness/Reality/God/True You". Just to not project/make God some self-existing external reality outside of you. Ultimate Reality is nondual, Infinite Consciousness Nothingness perceiving its own manifestations, perceptions perceiving themselves without separate self elements "clouding" the true state of things. God is not somewhere outside. God is right here. What imagines all of that? Biggest possible accident: Projecting/Confusing the Individuality-Arisings of the Separate-Self-Gestalt on God/Reality/Infinite. That is the worst possible seductive kiss from Maya imaginable. Yet, quite a show....

I agree to all that Leo has written above. Some musings from over here: Free will vs. Determinism: The Real You (Infinite Consciousness/Reality) has absolute freedom. The separate self illusion arising in you just feels like being you, but is not you, never was you, never will be you. Never could. You contain these arisings of the separte self in the real You. So it doesn't really exist, and since it doesn't exist, it has no freedom. But the Real You has absolute freedom. Nothing is or could be outside of it to limit its power. You project this freedom that you so strongly intuit on the separate self. So it is an illusion/ignorance. But the core of that feeling of freedom of choice it true, it is the Real You. But: That reasoning will not be clear before some Awakenings into what you are, and then it can help you passing and ripening that understanding, and stabilizing you in resting what You are. Then & there it is beneficial. Before that, it is just impossible to fully get it. Structure of your World-Bubble-Perspective/Visual Field: Since any form of boundary between perspectives would be an imagined arising, it is illusory, an appearance. Your current consciousness is limited, you forget all other perspectives in real time. But you add/imagine separate self arisings (feelings and thoughts), which are the illusion/ignorance. With more consciousness, you can have a Vision like Leavitt (see book cover with infinite perspectives). To get Enlightenment or Omniscience into the structure of Reality, you don't need to see all perspectives, but to fully understand the nature/structure/essence of your perspective, which you then realize has necessarily to hold for all other perspectives/beings. And for all dimensions, since there are only perspectives in Indras Net. N+1 -style. Even a Molecule is some kind of proto-perspective, the interiortity of a Holon in Ken Wilbers theory for example. Although a very rudimentary one. Here some ideas/Koans how to investigate your perspective, and which kind of [Awakenings/Enlightenments] you need: all appearances are imagined arisings in you, any boundary to any other perspective would just be imagined/arising (so not real, just appearing): What is necessary for that Awakening: A state of sufficient Nonduality , appearances appearing as just appearances (hovering in you, hologram-like/translucent). Not the normal everyday state, so either lot of meditation done correctly or Psychedelics are necessary. Psychedelics are very useful to get a preview on that, it takes a while to get there via meditation. the True You as the fully empty Nothingness which is "structurally infinite": Awakening in to the Nothingness or empty cogniziant nature of your core. "Structurally infinite", since any boundary limiting it would just be an imagined appearance, NOT really limiting it, but appearing within it. Something outside that imagined boundary can always also appear/be imagined. And since it is infinite, has no boundary (that would just be an arising in itself), it can't go anywhere, can't die: Awakening into eternity or "always necessary here-ness, can't go anywhere else-ness, can not not be there-ness". Also wasn't created (that would be another arising). It has nothing outside of itself (would be another appearance/arising) which could have created or caused it. That is a mindf*** (sorry) of the highest degree once you stumble over it. No daddy, but You get used to it. ( : It can imagine whatever it wants (omnipotent). Then we have timeless/eternal, nonlocal/"everywhere"/every possible being and reality, literally the only "One" or Reality itself, nothing can be outside of It (omnipresent), and omnipotent (since its the only Reality, no other Reality is stopping It from whatever it wants). So we have eternal, infinite, omnipotent/all powerful. And in some persepctives/beings, it even knows its structural fundamental nature: omniscient of its fundamental structure/being. And that is where sometimes the God-word (eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinite, omniscient) comes in.... But please, don't use any of these insights for separate-self-identity/arisings. That only makes trouble and, you know, bad Karma. Because it is just not true. All of that holds for the True Nature of You, not some not-really-existing (EX-isting = standing out from reality) separate self. But it is not standing out from Reality, it is moving in it, as it, the temporary arising separate-self illusion moving within you and temporary capturing the show for itself. after all of that, you can Awaken to the nature/structure of Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, ... However you want to call it. The last step is: (oh yes, after all of the above when having been stabilized in it for some time (days, months, years), the last big shift comes. And you won't overlook that one, because all of the above is gradual. This one is quantum). You won't overlook this one, you don't need to contemplate it, don't need to "make a decission" on it or on what you hold as true. It is totally fundamentally self-evident. It IS YOU. With that, you can look the devil in the eye and not blink. You will have the peace and bliss of your True Nature, that is "maintenance-free", since it IS You. It is variously called Great Enlightenment (Zen), Basis Enlightenment (Mahamdura Brown, Pointing out the Great Way), Great Liberation, ... Who or what is aware of all of that described above? Of the nondual infinite God-Mind Bubble Universe of manifested Infinite Consciousness floating in Infinity, as Infinity. What is the Reality/Awareness of Yours, that is inseparable of this Reality? What is the Awareness/"Subject" in perceptions perceiving themselves, without ever possibly having any location/center? What is the Reality/Awareness that can be originally "unaware" when no appearances arise in You (for example, in unware "normal" Deep Sleep), but has the potential of sentience as soon as an appearance is manifested? Who is hearing these words right now? What is this Absolute Subject, the Absolute Nothingness, that is so empty as Subject itself that the Absolute Abyss, that even God can't see anything in It? That you can only "experience", or that becomes available when "looking back" from "one level lower" and intuit/understand it as absolute Abyss of the Absolute Subject that you are? That then can be intuited/realized as total Abyss/Nothingness. That can never be any form or arising, because "the eye can't see" itself style? The Unmanifested Consciousness Reality that can be unaware of itself if no appearance is imagined, and yet that manifests as any possible world appearance in itself as itself, totally nondual, as the One Infinite Reality? What is beyond Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, beyond all of that, but at the same time expressing itself through that? What remains if all of that, the Universe-Appearance, is switched off and ends, and before a new creation arises (for example in Deep unaware Sleep, or immediately after death before the show goes on)? What is the unmanifested "side" of Consciousness/Reality/Nothingness, but which is not different at all from the appearances arising within it, as it? That which can not not be there? That which has been called Para-Brahman, Godhead, the Absolute, Absolute Awareness, Infinite Awareness. The Fundamental Real You. That neither exists as appearance, nor does not exist because something still appears? The Water of the River that every Being is at its core. Or much much more precise, after all my clumsy descriptions above have failed: The Clap of the One Hand, or your face before your parents were born. And since You are already It, "I" am just.... ... Selling Water by the River ( : Somebody made a Video Channel on the last step: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g Bassui on the never stopping short with small Enlighenments: "I have seen that the foundation of the universe is Voidness; still what is this something within me which can see and hear?” he desperately asked himself anew. In spite of every effort, he could not rid himself of this obsessive doubt." [Emptiness and Nondual stage, separate self still intact, on a very rudamentary level, just a void separate self watching Infinity. "The lesser masters from whom Bassui had sought guidance had all sanctioned his enlightenment [see above, Awakenings], but Koho, sensing Bassui’s keen, sensitive mind and the strength and purity of his yearning for truth, did not give him his stamp of approval but merely invited him to remain" "At work, at rest, never stop trying to realize who it is that hears. Even though your questioning penetrates the unconscious, you won’t find the one who hears, and all your efforts will come to naught. Yet sounds can be heard, so question yourself to an even profounder level. At last every vestige of self-awareness [remnants of Empty Witness] will disappear and you will feel like a cloudless sky. Within yourself you will find no “I,” nor will you discover anyone who hears. This Mind is like the void, yet it hasn’t a single spot that can be called empty [no location, unilocal, perception perceiving themselves]. Do not mistake this state for Self-realization, but continue to ask yourself even more intensely, “Now who is it that hears?” If you bore and bore into this question, oblivious to anything else, even this feeling of voidness will vanish and you won’t be aware of anything—total darkness will prevail. [Don’t stop here, but] keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning [having become fully empty, even of identity with manifested Consciouss, "God-Mind"] will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present." "With the passage of time one’s thoughts are stilled and one experiences a void like that of a cloudless sky [Emptiness, Nonduality]. You must not, however, confuse this with enlightenment. Putting aside logic and reason, question yourself even more intensely in this wise: “Mind is formless, and so right now am I. What, then, is hearing?” Only after your search has permeated every pore and fiber of your being [having become totally empty] will the empty-space suddenly break asunder and your Face before your parents were born appear. You will feel like one who abruptly awakens from a dream." from Kapleau, The Three Pillars of Zen PS: I didn't create that Video. But it is beautiful.

Thanks for all your answers, much appreciated! @Water by the River Crazy, I discovered that book by Marc Leavitt recently and started reading it but haven’t finished it yet. I was struck by the image because even if I don’t take that to literally be the case that was the best way I could visualize it to try to understand it on a mind-level. I don’t know how to use the quote function so I’ll just do like this. You write; ”Then: When you are fully empty and nondual, perceptions perceiving themselves, at some point you will directly have the realization and understanding that the same Consiousness that you are is in the "other", having arisings of the separate self-feelings and -thoughts, being believed and not seen through, just in the same way it was with you for a long time. Then, these dry perspectives explained above become a lived and felt reality.” I do have that strange feeling of all the objects just being there, somehow self-aware and existing without being perceived. It all feels empty and very loosey goosey. When I just sit and stare at the wall it starts to float around. I feel like it’s become a living reality in some ways but there is also conditioning that is pulling me back and how I experience things now in relation to that conditioning I’ve definitely felt and still feel to some extent that I’ve completely lost my mind and gone insane because it’s so far out compared to what I thought reality was 3-4 years ago. I do admit that I’m to a certain extent trying to figure it out by thinking and reason but I’ve also experiences some unreasonable things in my trips so I know it has limits. I have had some breakthroughs but it’s not all clear so I’m weary of thinking ”I got it” and I can still feel there is this sense of wanting to ”grasp”. But I hope this can open me up more and help me go beyond that. I listened to the video with Francis and it touches some parts of the dilemma I’m confused about, but I’m gonna have to re-listen a couple of times. Thank you for your inquiry, I will contemplate on it. @Leo Gura I’m not completely clear on how you make a distinction between ”perspectives” that you say is imaginary and ”experience” that you say nothing is outside of. I could personally have switched those terms in my example and called them 1st person experiences instead. However, I’m probably deceiving myself about what experience actually is at some level. I can see that when I’m talking about perspectives I’m imagining some kind of boundary or that I’m holding it as something and that a boundary is what creates two things. I read something you wrote to someone else where you made a distinction between general omniscience and specific omniscience. You’ve used this example yourself and I’m sure I’m probably simplifying it but is it something like this?; We can have sand and we can have shapes made out of that sand. As long as I’m viewing it as shapes while being ignorant of it’s reality, which is just sand, I seem to not be aware of everything? But if I would become completely conscious that the only thing I’m always aware of is just sand and that’s all there is I would in a sense become conscious of everything? And that it’s only when I carve it up into shapes that I can create distinctions and imagine different perspectives? I had a moment in one of the 5 meo trips where a thought repeatedly came to me which said ”being is prior to knowing” and it felt like no one knows anything. Like the whole of reality just is without anyone knowing of it’s existence. Sometimes I get a small glimpse on where this might be leading and that it will be a complete end of my humanity and it scares the hell out of me but there is also a side of me that just wants the truth. @Hojo I didn’t actually label the void as inside my head but that it sits where I previously imagined I had a head. I don’t believe there is a head ”here”. I feel headless and faceless and don’t really have the sense of the world being outside. I feels more like I have no idea where I am that the whole world is like a bubble floating in that not-knowingness. @MisterNobody First I just wanna make clear I didn’t write it to have anything validated per se. I wrote because this is where I’m currently at in my line of thinking and I feel stuck and wanted to explain where I’m currently at to get some pointers where to go next. I totally understand that just like in universities and in most institutions in society there are hierarchies of authority and that there are similar things happening within spiritual communities as well, but I have seen enough authority figures say things that is just plain wrong when examined in my direct experience so I don’t conflate authority with truth. I’m actually extremely anti-authority and have been my whole life and most of the time never buy what anyone says regardless of how that person is being viewed by others. I mean, someone like Neil Degrasse Tyson has a lot of authority but I don’t buy any of his materialism. I view authority mostly as a survival game. To some extent I believe you have to have that anti-authoritarian side to you to really go far in this work and to even be able to question and give up what pretty much everyone around you believes and be willing to look crazy to them if you would speak truthfully from your experience. At the same time, I can’t test every statement ever made and have to prioritize. Of course I admit I will carefully listen when Leo says something but it’s not out of blind belief or being a ”fan”, but because I have examined my experience against his insights and have discovered a lot to be true even though there is still a lot I don’t understand. So he has a track record there of saying things that turned out to be true for me. Regarding the actual topic. You write; ”what difference does it make if both 1st person perspective worlds are only internally generated by each person? If you kill me, I will die both in your internally generated reality and in mine.” It sounds like you’re saying things that I don’t actually say. In the examples I just explained how I don’t think the 1st person perspectives are being generated or owned by the person/body. I don’t hold my body, eyes or brain responsible for generating anything that’s happening right now. I don’t believe this perspective to be ”mine”. You also write; ”So, back to my main point of this paragraph, just because you imagined infinity to be ALL possible 1st person conscious experiences in THIS universe, it doesnt mean it has to be like this. Infinity doesnt need to be manifested like that, or to be experienced from 1st person perspective in a particular universe. ” I have no experience of this 1st person perspective being located in a universe, it’s the other way around as far as I can tell in my direct experience where this 1st person perspective have no location and the universe is a dream. I get that I’m imagining other perspectives/dreams but I’m not imagining them being located at different positions inside a universe. As this 1st person perspective doesn’t have a position I don’t view it as other 1st person perspectives being located at a different position. When I’m ”walking” I feel stationary while the objects flows. I do imagine that there is another perspective but that it’s also being hold in the Godhead/headlessness. As far as how things manifest, I have experienced weird things on normal dmt so I know the possibilities of imagination and that it’s not limited to only take form as something relatable from a human perspective. Lastly; ”He was asking if this ONE is living through others' pov as well (seeing, hearing, feeling etc) or others just act in accordance to the ONE intelligence but they are dead on the inside (no life inside, no conscious experience, no pov)” I’m not asking that. I already don’t think there is anything ”internal” and said that I don’t think of bodies being different than for example a rock. We usually don’t do grounding with objects like rocks, i.e. locates objects inside of an object and I don’t do that with bodies either so in that sense I already view them as ”dead”, but I don’t think that means the absence of another perspective as I don’t locate it inside a body.

from my previous post "Then: When you are fully empty and nondual, perceptions perceiving themselves, at some point you will directly have the realization and understanding that the same Consiousness that you are is in the "other", having arisings of the separate self-feelings and -thoughts, being believed and not seen through, just in the same way it was with you for a long time. Then, these dry perspectives explained above become a lived and felt reality." It is a part of Awakening to feel that the real You is looking through all beings/perspectives. Sorry if my answer was not clear. Leavitt has that in his book, a beautiful description. " ... or others just act in accordance to the ONE intelligence but they are dead on the inside (no life inside, no conscious experience, no pov)". Feel into the subjectivity of other beings/perspectives, and deep into your own subjectivity/Awareness. And see what you find. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj — 'The consciousness in you and the consciousness in me, apparently two, really one, seek unity and that is love.'

Imagine when all perspectives/beings of the Absolute are switched off. Nothing or totally infinite. Something like Deep-Sleep for all perspectives/beings. "It" would initially unaware of itself, but with the potential for sentience. Then a water-pistol is being imagined. Because is in the Nature of the Infinite to imagine form. Or a planet. Et voila, you have appearance, duality, form, and self-awareness. Very nicely described by the way in Benthino Massaros in "Spiritual Conversations with a Skeptic: On God Consciousness and The Absolute". Whatever you may think about the guy, the book is nice. Then imagine that this orginally unaware infinity forgets all other perspectives/beings "in space". Only "your" perspective is known in your case. You know whats forgetting in time is (what did you do exactly one year ago, for example), so something like that is also possible in space. You are just not aware of them right now. Check this picture, and notice the non-euclidian-space: Infinite perspectives. In this non-euclidian space, infinite perspectives fit in. You see only one of these perspectives, but Leavitt has had this vision with seeing an infinite amount in non-euclidian space. And the crazy thing is: You think (I assume at least : ) that you are located somewhere, head or body. But these arisings that feel like this being-locatedness can completely drop away, if you are able to spot them fast enough, and are familiar with them. Awareness has no location. You can never ever find it. The appearance bubble of each perspective/being is self-aware, perceptions perceiving themselves. Potentially as mere appearance, but with Karma/ignorance rock solid material/out there. But it CAN be seen as mere appearance. And once its not solid anymore one time, its proven that the solidity has only been fake appearance, never really has been like that, just appeared. That solidity is optional, if so imagined. But when you remove all these separation and being-located-feeling-arisings: The structure of your perspective reveals itself (perceptions perceiving itself, no center/awareness-location anywhere). Any maybe you can imagine that these appearances can become infinitely complex. But they are the real You, arising in you, as you, perceiving itself. And in that way the awareness of the abyss of awareness that you are (you can never define it, find it, measure it: INFINITE. Not finite). And you are also all appearances, nondual and infinite style. And if you switch it all off, all appearances/perspectives off, in all perspectives that you imagine in parallel and forget, you are back to square one. And that is the infinitely simple core of you: An Absolute Reality initially unaware of itself, but with the potential for sentience as soon as something shows up, in any perspective. And its not located in 3D-Space. 3D-Space is imagined in you, as object. And you can't go anywhere, can't disappear, can't die. You can only imagine to do so ( : And fully understanding the structure of you own perspective (the appearances of the visual field as mere appearance, insubstantial hologram-like (Yoga of One Taste), the whole perspective being infinite because 3D-space is also something imagined in you, and especially not believing ANY separate self-arisings arising in you (which needs a lot of practice to spot them fast enough, and see them arising and moving in you as objects), then you get and understand is what this perspective of yours is. And that awarness has radically no location. That awareness is really radically no-thing. Yet Awareness happens, perceptions perceiving themself. No lense of perception remains.It feels like the whole field is self-aware, perceptions perceiving themselves. But the field can imagine any kind of identity, location or lense, or ideas about itself. Then imagine there are no appearances, all switched off: The infinite Reality, initially unaware of itself, but potentially aware with sentience as soon as a appearance shows up. And this insight is valid for all perspectives, since any real boundary between perspectives would be just an arising, nothing solid, and not the Infinite Awareness. So it is understood that these insights must be valid for all perspectives/beings. But of course, people way smarter and wiser just would say: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! Or the One Hand claps. As always, selling water by the River that is you. Bon voyage. PS: Maybe you can find a few Alien Godmind in the non-euclidian space of perspectives in the picture. For sure a fun ride...

Yes. What helped me here, since its always a question of definition (for example of the Supreme Witness): You are that which is aware. And the Totality of Reality itself, since it can only show up in that which is aware. But the Totality of Reality is often only seen as that which appears (The appearance side). And that can totally disappear (Deep Sleep), and the real you is still there, unaware of itself, but with a latent capacity for sentience if something appears again (the emptiness or consciousness/aware side). So the question is: How "empty" is the Supreme Witness. When it is so empty that no arisings/feeling (very subtle I-feelings/I-thoughts) arise and appear in the Totality (call it Reality, Infinite Consciousness, God, Dharmakaya, whatever you want), or you clearly see them all as objects/arisings/movements within you, then what you realize yourself to be very obviously is the Totality/Reality/Infinite Consciousness,... . The stage before that is the Supreme Witness, or Empty Witness: Ken Wilber calls that the Empty Witness: Personality, and especially time and space are already transcended, "you" feel the infinite reality as mere appearance, timeless. And always here. But there are still some clusters of sensations arising IN YOU that feel like individuality, or that you are not the unbounded whole, but a feeling of watching it appears in you. You are not all of it, the sensation of "other" still arise a lot in daily life, you dont feel that you what looks from all eyes is the same consciousness that gets clouded by feelings/thoughts of I/me, exactly like how it used to get clouded in you. The realization is neither stable, nor complete. And then at some point you realize that (learn to spot) these arisings/feelings/building blocks of the Supreme Witness or Empty Witness are still left and arising/moving in you. You learn to spot them in a sort of High-Speed-Analysis, recognize them as arisings/objects appearing within you, and you can stop them immediately (subject->object), or just watch them. Then they drop, the Empty Witness drops, and the real you stays. But that is described by some as impersonal, a formulation that I am not totally happy with. Yes, its impersonal, its not the you you thought you were, but its the real you. And that real you "has" or "contains" the personal you moving in it. Then that boosts the nondual state, makes the whole world appear just as mere appearance, an imagined illusion, infinite, groundless, a mirage happening within you (that also starts before, but gets boosted a lot the more the Empty Witness drops). Pretty much a state that Psychedelics cause, but sobre. And with it comes happiness and bliss independend of what happens at that moment, which is the most beautiful aspect of it. If you dont have nonduality and nonseparation and are not aware of the Ground of Being in normal life (while not meditating or tripping), these very subtle arisings/I-feelings/I-thoughts still arise in you and are not spotted with high enough speed to see them for what they are: Sensations of separation arising within the real you. In my experience, you can not force real Nonduality/mere appearance of the totality/world, its an energetic state that gets influenced "indirectly" over how fast you spot these I-thoughts/I-feelings. Here I am fully in line when Leo says you need the right state (of enought nonduality, illusion-like mere appearance of the world, directly feeling it all as mere empty consciousness appearance mirage-arising). When you spot these subtle arisings (building blocks of the separate self and even Empty Witness) fast enough, they arise in you. But you can't force it with willpower, that would be what Daniel Brown in Pointing out the Great Way calls "artifical activity" during the stage of Nonmeditation Yoga (last stage of the 4 Mahamudra stages). It becomes automatic once you understand it at that stage. Its one of the Illusion-Mechanism of Maya that you can't force your way through it with willpower, but you can do it indirectly with understanding how to rest in your true nature. The energetic state of nonduality follows. Its some kind of positive feedback loop, sloping "upwards" if done correctly. I agree with Leo that Nonduality (which ripens) is in its early stages not realization of Ultimate Reality. Daniel Brown for example also. But realization of Ultimate Reality has to be nondual, since its a unity and infinite. And this development can pretty easily stagnate (especially before nonduality even begins to start), and stop if you do something incorrect, or understand something incorrect. Which pretty much happens with 99% of Buddhists. So the separate you disappears, but the real you as Awareness AND the Reality/World stays. So the Illusion-You disappears, but the real you is of course, as always, there. It can not "not be there". That is the Unborn, Reality itself. The real you. And in that area/stage definitions of different authors and traditions get very slippery, since these "feelings" of the Supreme Witness (as you intuit) are very very subtle, and its very easy to identify with them and not notice it. Over the years, I ended up with a metaphor for myself: Zen is like axe to cut a tree. Very robust, works if you do it long enough hard enough pretty foolproof, doesnt need a lot complex theory/stages, but normally takes a long time and is not so pleasant (and in practice for most doesnt deliver the final results, because it takes extreme willpower). More sophisticated versions of Buddhism, with a more detailed map, like Mahamudra/Dzogchen (see for example Brown, Pointing out the Great Way), are like a Forest Harvester: If used correctly very fast, quite pleasant (for the user, probably not for the forest) and comfortable along the path, but quite hard to understand and learn, since language is so slippery in these areas. Like if you want to use a Forest Harvester, and if you dont get explained how it works (like put gas in it, how to drive it, its controls), delivers no result at all. Zen = robust, sit long enough with a Koan and you get it, not much to misunderstand, but neither very fast nor pleasant Mahamudra/Dzogchen = very sophisticated with techniques and details and pointing out descriptions for every stage, but if used incorrectly (like not putting as into forest harvester) no result at all even if you do it a long time. Some Material for that stage I found useful: 1) Massaro, Spiritual Conversations with a Skeptic: "Imagine a formless, space-like void that's indestructible, sentient, awake, alive and aware, but has no form. You could almost say it has no self awareness. It just is. Russell: So wait... A void? A vacuum? Nothing? Bentinho: Yes. Just imagine it. Russell: OK, go ahead. Bentinho: The point of the analogy is that there is no object. Imagine infinite space with no stars or planets. Suddenly, you introduce a toy; let's say a water pistol. Or it could be a body even. But let's say... Russell: An object. Bentinho: Yeah, an object. A water pistol. Russell: With water in it. Bentinho: Maybe with Coca-Cola in it. Russell: With Coca-Cola in it. OK. Bentinho: Ah! Now there is something. Something is created. First there is this space, which is like the pure subject with no reference points. It's like space, but it's not actually space. Russell: Wait... where am I in relation to this infinite space? Bentinho: You are it. Russell: I am it? Bentinho: Yes. Russell: OK. But there is nothing in it at first. Bentinho: Correct. There is nothing in it at all; there is just Infinity. Russell: But I am in it. Bentinho: You are it. " 2) How other perspectives/beings work: A Human is aware of only his perspective (normally). But Infinite Consciousness can forget in time (what did you do exactly one year ago), or to be more precice NOT imagine that memory, and it can forget in space (metaphor of Francis Lucille). To get an idea watch the cover of this book of Marc Leavitt. Notice the hyperbolic geometry of the awareness fields shown. Reality is made of perspectives (Ken Wilber, Concept of Indras Net). Reality is a giant mind (Leo, and more or less all traditions). https://www.amazon.com/Enlightenment-Behind-Scenes-Marc-Leavitt/dp/1495398218 3) How to Approach Phenomenal Consciousness, Jac O'keeffe. She calls Ultimate Reality Totality Primary Consciousness "the fundamental primary phenomenal consciousness (her name for Ultimate Reality, Infinite Consciousness, the real you), it has a capacity. It doesn't even know itself here. However, it has a capacity to show up with a sense of emptiness (a subtle arising feeling/perception happening in you). To show up as one. To show up as a one who can reflect on itself and recognize that it is, and we have the concept of existence. And it can go from that sense of vast spaciousness and that unified field into time, which appears as a dot. " "We're left with consciousness (-> Primary Consciousness) that cannot know itself. It's such a fundamental that it actually can't know itself. However, it is known. You can drop back there and it is known, but you can't bring yourself there or your capacities to know it. It's almost like it's so fundamental that it can't turn around and see itself. It doesn't see itself. That's too much movement (arisings, objects, subtle I-feelings/I-thoughts, not fully empty/infinite). That's movement such as space, time and identification and me, myself, I, and the building of my movie that happens" Here she describes how Primary Consciousness is so empty that it cant turn around to see itself. Because that turning around would already be a movement, a arising, a subtle object within Primary consciousness/Real you. 4) Stephen Wolinsky, or how Empty is your Empty Witness or Supreme Witness: from Wolinsky, Nothing Comes From Nothing " Knowing or being aware of or consciousness of who you are is “one step” away from being who you are. This is why the Buddha said, “You might not necessarily be aware of your own enlightenment. Why? Because there is no aware-er or awareness or knower or knowingness, to be aware of or know or know about or be conscious of the Absolute. And why Lakshamann Joo said, “Whenever you perceive something, you perceive it from one level lower.” (remark: You can never see the Absolute Reality/Consciousness, cause looking or searching for it is a movement of attention WITHIN IT. But you can understand it, be it, intuit it, from one level lower. The Supreme Witness is one of the last movements IN YOU/Reality looking for absolute consciousness, inducing an experience of it, which of course is not it because it is you). Paradoxically As the Absolute there is no Absolute If the “I” or “you” “has an “experience” and believes it IS consciousness awareness infinite potential presence or that it IS an “imagined” infinity, then the “I” or “you” mistakenly assumes and projects that experience upon the Absolute. Once that occurs the “I” or “you” then completely believes and ergo experiences that the Absolute also has or IS the experience of consciousness has or IS the experience of awareness has or IS the experience of infinite potential has or IS the experience of presence has or IS the experience of an “imagined” infinite. Consciousness awareness infinite potential presence or an “imagined” infinite are the most subtle of the most subtle states and veils which give the illusion of awareness, the illusion of consciousness the illusion of presence and the illusion of both beingness and being conscious. This “experiential belief” of consciousness awareness infinite potential presence or an “imagined” infinite or “infinity, is an anthropomorphically projected experience of consciousness awareness infinite potential presence or an “imagined” infinite or “infinity. Thus giving the illusionary experience of awareness, the illusionary experience of consciousness the illusionary experience of presence and the illusionary experience of both beingness and being conscious. Which are then Superimposed on the Absolute Nothingness. Simply stated, the experience of consciousness awareness infinite potential presence or an “imagined” infinite or “infinity is an experience. This experience gives the illusion of a beingness, isness or existence to these temporary subtle veils and experiences which are made of nothing. The Absolute is without the Absolute Nothingness " 5) Prior to Nonduality Youtube-Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g Mechanisms of Creation/Imagination/Manifestation: Its important and nice to find out HOW you imagine this world with all of its infinite mechanism. And the first and fundamental mechanisms on how imagination/manifestation (in any universe/dimension) can occur can be understood (for example how the fundamental archetypes of space and time (giving "objects" or appearances that change in time), and the first "movements" (even if they are formless) of appearances in consciousness are spawned out from the Infinite Consciousness/Reality. That is for example described by Ken Wilber as the manifestation of the first Archetypes at the causal stage (he calls it low causal, while high causal being the empty ultimate Godhead). But since Reality/Spirit/God is able to manifest/imagine infinite Worlds, with totally different mechanism than our universe for example, by definition one will never be able to understand all of their mechanisms, since you dont have access to all Realities (and you couldnt while being human). And you can never explore all of them, by definition of what Infinity means. That is what God/Reality itself is exploring. Leo mentioned that in "Outrageous Experiments In Consciousness - 30 Awakenings In 30 Days.", there are infinite dimensions of awakening. Which is, as mentioned, quite shocking. But for sure its nice and important to grasp the fundamental mechanism of imagination/manifestation, which apply to all universes/dimensions (since all are appearances), and understanding that in your deepest being you are that one Reality. I believe these fundamentals are important to understand and realize and experience. Else "you" are stuck with believing experiencing Nonduality or Emptiness is it, while that is only the start to realize Infinity. And you can of course realize the Groud of Being, your true nature. But one can never explore all mechanism of manifestation, since a human in its limited time can never explore all realms of manifestation (and there are for examples according to Jac O'Keffee and Stephen Wolinsky some truly alien realms that are not build with the building blocks of this Universe. Yet they are also only appearances). So at some level one either says "Its details, and one can never explore all mechanism of manifestation, because even for God/Absolute Reality there are Infinite Realms of Appearances/Worls/Universes to explore", or it is a grasping for seeing as much as possible. Which is a high level recipe for nevery finding the constant peace/happiness independend of outer circumstances, the hallmark of the enlightened ones, and also nevery fully resting it. Maya is awe-inspiring, and her Illusion-Mechanisms (which are necessary for this Lila) go to the highest level also. But understanding the fundamental mechanism of how manifestation/imagination occurs, how you fool yourself (Maya), what ultimate Reality/God/Spirit is, what other is, how Maya works, what one really is and how one imagines otherwise, that is all essential. And of course humanity will go exploring all of that (manifestation/imagination mechanisms, mechanisms of Maya, "going Psychonaut" and exploring it, exploring Ken Wilbers subtle and low causal realms and mapping them. He even said in the next 1000 years probably many new substages will show up and getting formed & described during exploration). This understanding will grow. Buddhism has evolved in the past, there is not even one Buddhism, there are many different streams, some more developed/sophisticated/efficient than others. I don't think Buddhism will disappear, so it will change and evolve by definition. Buddhism happens in Infinity, not the other way round. And to conclude: I hope this is interesting and helpful for some of you. It took me a long time to understand why there are so many, often contradicting statements in the spiritual traditions/teachers/psychonautic explorers, and how Reality is structured (and the differing perspectives & statements it supports and brings forth on various stages/states) to enable and support all of these differing perspectives, experiences and viewpoints. For sure, this picture isn't complete, but at least for me tells a story that for me is sufficient to continue my practice in peace and enjoy what it brings into my life, be able to sort all these often conflicting messages in a large and hopefully integral perspective, and stay interested in how Reality is structured that all of that can appear in it (the psychonaut approach). And of course its nearly impossible to communicate all of that in language. In case anybody has read all of the above until here: A metaphor that, if I remember correctly, also Ken Wilber once used: Zen would deliver the much more precise summary, which is why I also like Zen a lot: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! Matsuo Basho (1644-1694)

Greetings everyone, My name is Robert Leavitt and I wrote a free PDF file about this coronavirus pandemic. I decided to try to be part of a solution because I see a lot of people out there struggling right now to try to get some kind of "handle" on this situation. My mom called today rather upset that I am not quarantined. My fiance works at the local hospital too. I'm going to go right on living my awesome and peaceful life. https://corona.abetterlife2live.com Peace and Love, Robert

@Robert Leavitt I would be curious to see some of your work. If you want to show me it. Yeah, I agree with you in the fact there is not really a need to reinvent the wheel. There is a lot of working things out there that can work for anyone. It is good to add your own touch and personality to it of course though. I have just had some product ideas come to mind and I think that last part of what you talked about would be useful for me to think more about while doing it. Not sure if you directed it at OP or myself. If myself I have not fully went to where I am going for sure. I am more or less just getting the ground work to build up some larger ideas of what I want to do. I have thought about doing a lot more business stuff. But I enjoy personal development stuff as a whole and I notice if I teach and share things my knowledge and retention of them skyrockets.

Sarcasm = Soul Murder...here is a great article I found: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-well/201206/think-sarcasm-is-funny-think-again Sarcasm..to convey mock or contempt. I've also heard it defined as cruely humours with the intention of undermining someone else's self esteem. You can tiptoe around that all you want and live in denial about the "oh I was just kidding" but those thoughts didn't just fall out of the sky. I used to be this way and I used to lie too and say, "oh but I'm just kidding" but deep down inside, I was never kidding. I was a monster. I also accept that other people are not at that point in their own personal journey, and I have even been known to laugh if something is funny to me, but it's soul murder. It's not acceptable for me personally. I won't personally do it to someone ever again. It an earmark of someone who isn't secure with themselves. It's the undertones of a bully who enjoys poking fun at people so they can get a little "rush" out of it. If you don't agree with me, I don't care...you can go argue with the dictionary. Peace and Love! Robert Leavitt

@Robert Leavitt ❤

@Robert Leavitt That sounds very interesting man congrats on your work. Did you try to stop all the thoughts or only the negative ones that create separation ? For example often I have thoughts of me commenting on what I'm doing or trying to figure out what to do, these are not negative per se but they seem like unnecessary layer of thinking over reality.

@Robert Leavitt Can you tell more about this "thought stopping procces" and how you worked to silence the thoughts ?