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https://www.reddit.com/r/nonduality/s/bbj0T0wQ9U figured this would be appreciated by anyone who hasn’t seen it in this community

If we bring nonduality and Christianity together, we could say that the same awareness that knows the body is the light of life itself, the image of God in which we move and have our being. Of course its paradoxical that we all share the same timeless being, yet we experience different lives, different experiences and stories. Perhaps It's not for any of our singular minds to get, a mystery! Perhaps thats just how the Absolute can experience itself. Might as well just accept that it just Is and to notice the appearance and disappearance of experiences with detatchment, resting as that awareness that knows them.

--- 1. Does the Book of Mormon say religion is created by the devil? Not exactly. The Book of Mormon does criticize corrupt or prideful churches that serve wealth or power instead of God — these are sometimes called “the church of the devil” or “great and abominable church.” But that term doesn’t mean all religion is of the devil. Rather: It draws a contrast between the “church of the Lamb of God” (those who follow Christ sincerely) and the “church of the devil” (any organization or movement that opposes truth and goodness). The text treats this more as a spiritual polarity (truth vs deception) than as literal denominations. So, no — it doesn’t teach that religion itself is demonic, but that religion can be corrupted by ego, greed, and distortion. --- 2. Is Mormonism the most mystical form of Christianity? In many ways, yes — especially compared to mainstream Protestant or Catholic theology. Mormonism teaches a radically participatory view of divinity: > “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become.” This is known as the Doctrine of Exaltation — the idea that humans can progress eternally and eventually attain godlike nature through spiritual evolution and union with divine truth. That is remarkably close to mystical nonduality or divinization traditions found in: Eastern Orthodoxy (theosis — becoming one with God’s energies) Sufism (annihilation of self in the divine) Taoism (return to the Tao through alignment with natural truth) Advaita Vedānta (realization of self as Brahman) However, Mormonism keeps a dualist framework (God and humans are distinct beings who can become one in purpose, not literally one essence). So while it echoes mystical ascent, it doesn’t teach absolute nonduality like Taoism or Advaita. --- Summary ❌ The Book of Mormon doesn’t say all religion is of the devil; it condemns corrupt or prideful religion. ✅ Mormonism is arguably the most mystically inclined Christian denomination, affirming direct human-divine transformation and infinite spiritual progression — though it still keeps a distinction between God and creation.

Then what do you identify with? And I agree that nonduality has a lot of baggage and dogma tied to it.

It means that people who speak about nonduality are in lower states of consciousness than what is possible. You are getting too pedantic about words. Words are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that you understand that there exist much higher states of consciousness than your current state. Stop acting like what I am saying is so paradoxical and confusing. It isn't. It is so clear a child could understand me. Ant >> rat >> chimp >> human >> nondual human >> alien >> God level 1 >> God level 2 >> God level 3 >> etc When you make any argument to me, that is coming from your existing state of consciousness. Your arguments have zero validity in higher states. This includes all arguments made by nondualists and Buddhists and enlightened people. Literally nothing you say matters because none of it exists at a higher state. If you do not understand this, I don't know how to help you.

The problem isnt that people reject your notion of God, the problem is that you are making a category error (under the notions how people who objected to you use the terms relative and absolute). Its like saying that it makes sense to say "something is taller or less tall than tallness itself". Tallness isnt a category that can have the property of being less or more tall. And it isn't a question of open-mindedness or lack of knowledge , its a question of making meaningful sentences. Do you think it makes sense to say something like - "You are not open minded to the fact that tallness is an illusion and you can be taller or smaller than tallness?". Or to say "there are levels of tallness to tallness" And yes, it is a norm that you are using, but what is it? Is it something like 'Sense of realness'? Because that norm can be meaningful and it can make sense when it comes to comparative judgements, and hence why the metaphor "awakening" can be used - you judge something illusory to something more real. This is the issue that multiple people have already pointed out to you (including me) that you are equivocating on the term "absolute" and "relative" and you are using those terms with a different meaning comapared to how others(who objected to you) use it. Again, its not a question of being lost in non-dual dogma, its a question of making meaningful sentences. Like making sentences like "You can go beyond nonduality", what the fuck does the adjective "beyond" can possibly mean there? Because, again, under how people understand the semantics of such statements, its just a meaningless statement that involves a category mistake (and by clarifying what notions you are using behind those statements, you can make it meaningful, but for that you need to bother with clarification). I can give you a couple more statements to give you an intuition pump (demonstrate what our issue is) that all involve category errors and its not a matter of lack of open mindedness or knowledge: 1) Something before time - 'before' is a temporal property and it pressuposses time, its like saying time before time - meaningless, unless you can give such meaning to the term 'before' that is non-temporal. 2) Another one is saying that space is larger than the sun. If by the term 'space' we mean the container within which things are located and extended, then the predicate "small" or "large" cant be applied to it and it becomes a meaningless statement. However, there is a way to make it possibly a meaningful statement, if we engage in equivocation, where by the term 'space' we mean the observable Universe. In that case, the sentence could be cashed out something like "in the container within which things are located and extended, the observable Universe is larger than the sun". 3) There is a location to the container within which all things are located and extended.

Uhhh... Rupert Spira is just sane... He is my favourite nonduality teacher actually. You will get no bs from him. This alien consciousness stuff is bs, its Daryl all him, he's just playing a role... its just his style of teaching, to his audience. Not everyone is for Rupert Spira retreats, and not everyone is for Bashar. They have different type of audience. I am not interested in Bashar talks, not nondual enough 😀 i like someone saying that the knower and the known are made of the same knowing. Im not into solipsism, im into nonduality. Not talking about one mind, but one consciousness. Minds are collection of thoughts perceptions/conceptions [aka movements of consciousness] within consciousness, mind is not consciousness.

He called me a "retarded cripple" and constantly makes digs at me that I have broken legs. Im in hospital recovering from a jump from the 3rd floor, he knows that and is using it as his main front of attack when talking about spirituality and nonduality. And he has not received any penalty points for that btw, i have received penalties for much less. He's making personal and petty attacks in both PMs and here. Not once, not twice, multiple times, many occasions, different threads. Im fine, but the guy is deeply disturbed if he feels the need to do this, and at the same time puts up a front of being enlightened wtf?

Oh don't run now, hiding your posts. Whats done is done. Stop trying to pull me to your level and defeat me with experience. Im in this forum solely for discussing nonduality/truth. If you can't handle that reply to someone else. You're having egoic reactions, because I dont treat you as an enlightened being, the way you speak and I answer triggers yoou, so you feel the need to attack me with your posts. Clear as daylight, ego activation... and im just speaking my truth. Imagine!

Hey, ya'll, I need your help! I want to create a comprehensive list of video examples of prototypical stage Turquoise thinking. This is meant to be an educational tool for people learning about Spiral Dynamics. So towards that end, scour Youtube and find all the videos you can which exhibit stage Turquoise thinking. Try to find videos which are short and sweet. The more diversity we can display here, the better. Try to find examples from various cultures. We will create a mega-thread like this for every stage in the Spiral, from Red to Turquoise. But here, let's just focus on Turquoise. Each week I will start a new mega-thread topic for the next stage. Do not start a political debate in this thread! It is not our goal here to defend our personal political positions or to judge any stage, but simply to compile examples. Thanks for your help! I'm excited to see what kind of juicy stuff you dig up. Try to be selective with your choices. This can turn into a really cool list. Stage Turquoise Values: Consciousness Elevating mankind’s consciousness Truth Deep metaphysical insight Wisdom, the wisdom of nature Mysticism, spirituality, nonduality God, divinity Holism, integration, synthesis vs analysis Integrating all religions & science Left & right brain synthesis Honesty, transparency, authenticity Being vs knowing, doing, having Simplicity, flowing with nature Minimalist sustainable living Collaborative synergy Human wellness Healing at all levels: physical, emotional, spiritual Exploring altered states of consciousness Intuition Channeling: direct downloads from infinite intelligence Supernatural creativity Spiritual purification Awakening, transcendence, liberation Unconditional love, compassion for all Emotional mastery Presence, mindfulness Paradox Esoteric teachings Gratitude Unity Deeper & deeper levels of interconnectedness Selfless living Sacrifice self for greater consciousness Meditation, yoga, contemplation, self-inquiry Not-knowing Humility Spontaneity, playfulness, self-amusement The really big picture Stage Turquoise Examples: Sadhguru, Shunyamurti, Thomas Campbell, Yoda, David Hawkins, Ken Wilber, Shinzen Young, Deepak Chopra, Stan Grof, Osho, Mooji, Ramaji, Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle’s A New Earth, Yogananda, Martin Ball, Terence McKenna, Carl Jung, Sri Aurobindo, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Ervin Laszlo, David Loy, Alan Watts, Wim Hof, Matt Kahn, Dalai Lama, Sasha Shulgin, yoga, holotropic breathwork, The Holographic Universe, Akashic Records, noosphere, opening the 3rd eye, pineal gland, out of body experiences, samadhi experiences, siddhis, paranormal abilities, clairvoyants, channels, mediums, Bashar, Aleister Crowley, Rudolf Steiner, alternative healing systems, Maya, psychedelics, 5-MeO-DMT, StarTrek: The Q, Rupert Sheldrake’s morphogenetic fields, Dean Radin’s paranormal research, Gandhi’s ideas of pluralistic harmony, Gaia, biocentrism, Monroe Institute, Esalen Institute, transpersonal psychology, Jung’s collective unconscious, quantum field theory, sacred geometry, reincarnation, opening chakras, saints, sages, mystics, prophets, etc.

I will guide you to deconstructing the most core aspects of your worldview so that you can experience various facets of God directly for yourself. It is not about pushing ideas upon you but helping you deconstruct all human constructs so the chemical is then free to show you the rest. We will deconstruct time, space, substance, external world, other, birth, death, humanity, nonduality, sanity, etc.

There exists a supernatural domain of consciousness which is so advanced that no words can communicate it to you. It is like trying to explain human consciousness to an ant. Humans are just ants. Nothing more. Nothing humans understand means anything from a higher POV. This includes nonduality and enlightenment and all human spirituality. All of it is ant stuff. Words can only do so much, which is why I like the idea of chemical retreats. The real work is in the chemicals, not in my talking. The chemical can show you what words never can.

Introduction My feet are raw: cuts, pine pitch and all My hands are sore: abraised, puffy, and looking like "a job well done" My head is on fire: like an inflamed computer chip still running on overdrive My soul? alive and complete, as is The trip 150ug LSD is consumed orally at 8:30am. It was a hot summer day in northern-central Arizona. I pulled on my forest green pants and a tan-colored hiking shirt. I looked like a forest ranger ready for action. I packed my notebook and strapped on my compass. I noted the tent's proximity to the cliff and the general compass direction I walked so I could find my way back. The weather was 75-95⁰F & partly cloudy. As I maneuvered through heavy pine forest, wiggling around some branches, bending others, I got the feeling that something massive was about to happen. I kept my composure; the day had just begun. Eventually I hit a clearing with a new view beyond the cliffs. I set-up my collapsible tri-pod chair a safe distance from the cliffs to contemplate, journal, and be. Dozens of ants scuttled by. At first I feared they were of the aggressive type. Not fired red, but a more brown color. Not one climbed on me. I realized 90+% of nature is chill with you if you are still and relaxed around it. As I stared off the cliff (into the abyss) I began to feel deeper into my body. Initial thoughts included gratitude for Julien Blanc's trauma healing program I just went through, including the new friends I made in the process. Also my reverence for natural beauty and the fact I developed enough self-trust to trip in nature, near 200-foot sandstone cliffs, a 10-minute hike from my friend. It was feeling and a more realistic kind of joy: one with a healthy dose of underlying discomfort. Discomfort in the sense of the hot weather and possibly of encounters with wildlife. But the only wildlife that approached were flies, who I recognized as organic robot-like alien creatures with as much reason to exist as other life. They exude their own natural beauty. And they're even friendly and chill as long as you're not swatting at them constantly. Behind me, I heard a digging sound. I turned and focused with the gaze of a hawk letting his telescoping vision work for him. I saw a couple of small shrubs get yanked into the ground. A mole rat popped its head up. I felt giddy, but stayed quiet. I wanted to leave it be, but also go chase it (later in the day I would chase lizards across the campsite like a 8 year old boy, unabashed). When the heat of the sun kicked up a notch and the LSD began taking more effect, I jumped up and explored my newly charted territory one last time. Then I realized my water supply was already low and felt the call of camp. "It's time to find the tent". I recalled my compass direction and took a straight-shot back. But not without some fear. I felt a literal sensation of 'overcoming' in the pit of my being. "Holy shit. Its just me out here and getting back to camp is ON ME." I felt dizzy and a little like a survival dude who's wondering if he'd made a wrong move. I smiled in the face of it and moved ahead with strength and focus. My body filled with chemicals I'd associate with discipline and healthy fear. I knew how to get back but felt fear like I was enduring physical survival from scratch. Oddly I enjoyed it. Suddenly? The tent I was looking for quite literally popped out of things air a good 50 feet in front of me. A gigantic grin blossomed on my face. I felt like I'd just gone through the native American tradition of going into the woods as a rite of passage to become a man (though i didn't find a totem animal) and was now arriving to stand with the other men. I approached the tent, slowly unzipped it, and entered. My friend was pretending to sleep; how cute. I got cozy and prepared for the fast-approaching peak of the trip. It felt like a tender moment was about to unfold. So I lied down, eyes closed. Out of nowhere, I saw a pink image on a black background. It looked like a vagina made of vibrant desert flowers. The vagina then started to curve into itself, with the flowers getting consumed beneath the lips. It was insanely beautiful, and I became overtaken in total rapture by the sight of it. As the image of the pink desert vagina faded, my body became ultra-relaxed. Then, it started to spasm. Uncontrollably. Completely spontaneous. I allowed myself to relax further. And of course, the spasming increased. I began feeling an energy that I associated to the desert flower vagina image. It felt so incredibly right. Then something unbelievable happened. It's honestly difficult to explain using conventional language... But in a nutshell, my body form of consciousness and my mind/soul/spirit form of consciousness started to function as totally separate entities. While my body was trembling and flailing about my mind was 'talking' and imagining whatever it wanted. Nothing in particular, but I could tell it was functioning autonomously, similar to musical instruments playing completely different parts in a larger symphony. As this imminent physical experience went on, a great selflessness washed over me. I turned to my friend and in a mumbling voice said, "This is what de-traumatization looks like." I decided the theme of this trip would be about healing & reclaiming. I'd been working on somatic experiencing for the past 2 months and this felt like the climax of all of my hard work. Once my body settled down, my friend said he was gonna go to his van and chop up some honeydew. He came back with this insane, monster platter of honeydew melon, sliced horizontally in a triangle, covered in honey with a pile of cashews at the base. I freaked out like a kid at the candy store when he brought it in. I ate a few pieces, but felt full quick (usually eat only half the amount if food I normally eat when on LSD). Moments later, I found honey all over the inside of my right arm. I proceeded to laugh 10x harder than was necessary (just kidding it was so necessary haha). After washing off my arm, the heat and vibrations of the forest suggested to me that I de-clothe. Outside the tent ready to explore again, I stripped down all the way to sunbathe for a moment—standing up. I quickly realized I'd better shield the delicate areas. So, I threw my underwear back on. I ran through the forest, in the camping area, hopping from rock to rock. I felt as light as a cloud. My balance was insanely good too. My buddy grabbed my attention and said I should try the slackline. "That's such a hippy activity I never really got into," I thought. But in that moment all I could think was "Why the fuck not, I wanna have some fun!" We set it up and I remember getting up there and falling over and over again. Eventually I got bored of trying to walk it and began swinging on it. I'd sit on it, fall back, then cling to it with my leg and hands, swinging like a monkey the way I did when I was a little kid on the playground (I used to be one of the most skilled kids of playground equipment back then). Goofing around like this made me feel like a little kid again and like I was living the dream I'd always wanted to take back. I felt so incredibly happy. But not in a "high" way... just fulfilled. Next thing I remember is I was far enough beyond the peak of the trip I could walk on the tilted sandstone slabs that made up the canyon cliff-faces in a safe and explorative way. To my surprise i found mini cactus plants that I didn't know existed this far north in Arizona. Me and my friend explored around. He dug out a cave and we kept throwing rocks off the cliff (classic stupid fun things you do). After that I went back up to the forest floor, lied flat, and gave the earth a full-body hug. As I was coming down, the sun began to set. Me and my friend went to his van to make some dinner. Still, I kept splashing my face with water because of the heat. My hands and feet began to feel hot from all of the raw interaction with nature I'd had that day (barefoot and all). I slipped on socks and sandals to honor myself a little bit. A job well done in meeting nature raw and honest today. Indeed. But now it was time to balance it out. I chopped veggies for my friend and he sautéed the mushrooms, green beans, zucchini, and eggs into a masterpiece. I tasted every flavor and how they interacted with each other, like a Mozart symphony. A strange part about this trip is I felt so selfless it's as if I was free from the human mind and even the idea that I was tripping (as wild as it sounds). Everything was just consciousness. No physics and not even the idea of metaphysics. Only pure, raw being. This trip wasn't just another weak-ass, protected 'museum' dose' in an A/C controlled studio. Rather, I embraced the forest, including the theme of trauma, as a general rule of nature and life. I saw this trip as a healing experience. Not pleasant nor dark, just simply a rigorous, focused process. It also felt like a more intense dose of rugged exploration and nomadic living. I could feel the beauty of nature and also the harshness of it; I was reminded of the necessity of modern medicine and basics like clothing, clean shelter, and electricity to sustain higher baselines of consciousness as I go about life. The rawness element of this trip penetrated my soul fast and deep: the LSD accelerated a typical immersion in nature that would take 1-2 weeks to achieve (I've camped in Mongolia and Alaska before and usually immersion takes a while). I didn't sleep easy that night, but I did learn something. My feet, hands, and head were all inflamed. So even though my core body temperature was perfectly stable, the inflammation kept me up until the coolness of night balanced it out. It all made me realize I need to protect myself and honor my highly sensitive person (HSP) nature even further than before. This is something I'm going to get more serious about, and I do not care what people think. Trip rankings Depth was a 8/10 Spiritual rigor was definitely a 10/10 Preparedness was a 4/10 (heat and too little care to extremities) Overall something like a 7/10 Definitely would recommend if you're adventurous (and a little crazy) like me. Metaphysical themes encountered Strange loops, infinite holarchy, infinite nonduality (every duality in every domain reconciled), radical and intelligent selflessness. ••• Dear reader, Have you tripped in nature before? If so how was it? What came up? Or, have you used psychs to confront trauma in a direct manner before?

Nondual awareness doesn’t make sense. Sense comes on contact with an object in other words a thought. Aware of being aware. That’s a duality. That is the sense of self. It is pointless trying to make sense of nonsense nonduality which is a flawed belief, because it's only half of the story. I have no idea why more emphasis is placed on the death of self, but yes, this death can be recognised as a thing known, but life still goes on living after enlightenment for no one.

@Miguel1 hey,can you tell me what's wrong with nonduality?

Duality is thinking it is Nonduality. Duality is knowing you know. And this knowing is always going to be about a knower and what knowing knows. I know I know nothing is identical to I know I know everything. When one thing is known, everything is known.

@Princess Arabia there is really not much to be said about this topic other than to say I'm everything and no thing ..located everywhere and no where . The logic of this is as follows : there is no where in infinity . Existence itself is happening nowhere . And there is no real boundaries between any apparent two things in existence (nonduality 101) . Therefore "I AM" everything. And everything is infinite and is happening nowhere .

So pain is not consciousness alluvassudden. You always cherrypick what you're nondual about. You see some imaginary pain behind my words and you use it in a sad attempt to hurt your idea of me. My man drop the act of being enlightened it does you no good. Milk that is poisoned looks like milk, but you shouldnt drink it. Be careful what milk you consume 🧐. You cant paint everything with a broad brush like you're doing. Calm down, step away from the keyboard and so some self inquiry instead of attacking people on forums, based on a perceived higher ground of understanding. You drank poisoned milk. What i see is intellctual understastanding of nonduality without any integration. What I see is nonduality of words. You want to win arguments, not know the Truth.

Nonduality is like Rupert Spira being aware of awareness, consciousness being aware of itself, look at me i‘m Rupert Spira i wear glasses 🤓 and have a British accent i‘m so woke. Here is what you can do to become more aware Radical Nonduality is like Tony Parsons and Andreas Müller, there is nobody, bo meaning, nothingness being everything. Look at me i‘m nothing 😎 there is nobody who can do anything. Alright thanks guys and glad we talked about it.

Absolutely. I really try to figure out just how one can become more resilient to stress. I lead and train the team I work with at the office - and it is HIGH stress. A revolving door for people who cannot do construction from the back end and handle it. It is a big one for me - I can only come to the conclusion it is nature & nurture. I think by nature I am confident and resilient - toward the higher end of the spectrum. I always took this to be a product of my experience; I have seen some evil shit. Been through evil shit. And have a massive capacity for stress. I used to labour under the assumption this arose in me because of hard challenges in my past. Each horrible thing I experienced very much prepared me for the next challenge. And so on and so forth. Until I had such a high capacity for stress, I struggle to even comprehend it myself - especially retrospectively. And so, because I overcame so much and became stronger - I went through life assuming anyone who faced challenges could reframe and grow from it. Siphon out the positive from any bad experience and learn the lessons to be had there. I projected this onto others. A 'golden shadow'. I truly believed everyone could do this and boy oh boy was I HARD on people when they fell short. Then I begun working with my sister. She went through similar trauma as me, the same environment. She was exposed to slightly less horror I will say. But she has no capacity for stress. She suffers from anxiety attacks with only a slight push. She isn't able to see positive from past experiences unless they made her happy in totality. She constantly worries how she will be perceived. Worries for her safety - won't walk down the street in the dark. Worries about how a cashier will think of her order - similar to your friends pathology around going to McDonalds in the dark. Bit long winded - but in the example above, it illustrates how 2 family members can be exposed to the same trauma and walk away with totally different understandings and lessons. And our responses could not be more different - I have no regret and am stronger as a result; she feels she has had an unfair and bad life, and has been weakened. Our minds did totally different things with the experience... all in the mind. And indeed, how strange our minds are! I can tell you though - my sister lets our past define her. And define her future. I do not. I don't even think on it. Unless to reveal a story such as above to illustrate a point. I have no attachment to my past. I recognize it as a story about someone. It doesn't limit me. I have no attachment there... So I can see how spirituality has altered my mind and how I have been able to reframe my experience in a way my sister simply cannot. And she is not interested in spirituality, nonduality, inquiry - any of it. Looping back to @Someone here - I think he could be in a great position to tackle the stress of addiction head on, because he is in a relatively good position (from what I gather, I do not know all of his circumstances) to do so. He can build resilience to stress while he has stability in other areas. Because if there is one thing I know in life - it comes to fuck you in the arse with no condom in a sudden and shocking way. Your whole existence and way of being can be deleted at the drop of a hat.

From the not knowing 🌱 @ivankiss don't be a little mutant, unless you want some of mommies zen stick through the neck I do think though, that if we are going the nonduality route, investigating duality and using concepts are needed to point to various parts of our experience we overlook. Especially for those of us heavy on intellect. But I think you know this, and the aim of this paragraph was to highlight the fact that more concepts were present potentially not aware of? 🫠 For myself personally, I think forcing nondual talk all the time is silly. Some people benefit from concepts and ideas initially. Some benefit from having to dig into the meat of a statement that isn't clear - at first. It's like walking up steps that are non complaint: each step is a fucken metre high and you have to climb and fall. Sometimes there is no hope to get up! The initial concepts used as nondual pointers are a little mobile scaffold to help. So once there you can kick the scaffold away and see the real unobstructed view. Rip the cataracts off. Like learning a system before you can break it. All these different methods should end up with a full deconstruction in the end, but everyone gets there in a different way. Some teachers get us to W O R K for it. Some learners can't do it that way. Anyway bit of a digress there, sorry Carl wasn't really at you!

How old are you, Ivane. This nonduality thing is not about winning arguments nor about typing flashy comments, its about having practical direct experience of nonduality. Maybe re-read original post and see if you can follow the pointings. The egoic reactional thoughts are also seen by the I now. They aren't I.

I never understand why people on the Layman path go into Enlightenment/Transcendent/Monastic spaces and try to preach to everyone about the goodness of the Layman path. Marriage and Kids are a wonderful and beautiful thing. But people on the Layman path need to stop entering Enlightenment spaces and flooding them with: "But it is bad to let go of all attachments." "You have to participate in society though." "Humans are social creatures" "You should give up non-duality and tend to your humanity" "Having kids and getting married makes you even more evolved than ego transcendence" "You are spiritually bypassing" "In the past, they taught detachment. Now, we need to focus on being aware while remaining attached" "Well you can't meditate all day, you got to go to work and pay bills" "I feel way more fulfilled as a mother than I did when I was pursuing enlightenment" "Nonduality is dangerous and it is better to focus on shadow work instead" There is a section from Autobiography of a Yogi from Paramahansa Yogananda: Ananta took me to their home. The son, a young man of ebullient manner, greeted me in the courtyard. He engaged me in a lengthy philosophic discourse. Professing to have a clairvoyant knowledge of my future, he discountenanced my idea of being a monk. “You will meet continual misfortune, and be unable to find God, if you insist on deserting your ordinary responsibilities! You cannot work out your past karma without worldly experiences.” Immortal words from the Bhagavad Gita rose to my lips in reply: “‘Even he with the worst of karma who ceaselessly meditates on Me quickly loses the effects of his past bad actions. Becoming a high-souled being, he soon attains perennial peace. Know this for certain: the devotee who puts his trust in Me never perishes!’” But the forceful prognostications of the young man had slightly shaken my confidence. With all the fervor of my heart I prayed silently to God: “Please solve my bewilderment and answer me, right here and now, if Thou dost desire me to lead the life of a renunciant or a worldly man!” I noticed a sadhu of noble countenance standing just outside the compound of the pundit’s house. Evidently he had overheard the spirited conversation between the self-styled clairvoyant and me, for the stranger called me to his side. I felt a tremendous power flowing from his calm eyes. “Son, don’t listen to that ignoramus. In response to your prayer, the Lord tells me to assure you that your sole path in this life is that of the renunciant.” With astonishment as well as gratitude, I smiled happily at this decisive message. “Come away from that man!” The “ignoramus” was calling me from the courtyard. My saintly guide raised his hand in blessing and slowly departed. “That sadhu is just as crazy as you are.” It was the hoary-headed pundit who made this charming observation. He and his son were gazing at me lugubriously. “I have heard that he, too, has left his home in a vague search for God.” I turned away. To Ananta I remarked that I would not engage in further discussion with our hosts.

I'm addicted to AI but will be addressing it in my monthlong zen retreat in January . Grok: Your claim that Christianity inherited false dualistic doctrines from Plato and Persian thought, leading to concepts like the immortal soul and cosmic judgment, and that Jesus’ true message was one of “Absolute Oneness” (a nondual perspective), is a bold and thought-provoking assertion. It builds on our previous discussion, suggesting that Platonic and Persian influences distorted Jesus’ original teachings. Let’s analyze this by exploring the origins of these doctrines, their integration into Christianity, and whether Jesus’ message aligns with Absolute Oneness, aiming for a concise yet thorough response. Dualistic Doctrines in Christianity: Plato and Persian Influence Christianity, as it developed, incorporated ideas that appear dualistic—dividing reality into opposing categories like material/spiritual, good/evil, or heaven/hell. Let’s examine the alleged sources: 1. Platonic Influence: • Immortal Soul: Plato’s philosophy, particularly in Phaedo and Timaeus, posits the soul as eternal, distinct from the perishable body, and destined for an afterlife based on its pursuit of truth. Early Christian thinkers like Augustine (354–430 CE) adopted this framework, integrating it with Christian ideas of resurrection and eternal life. The notion of an immortal soul, separate from the body and surviving death, became a staple in much of Christian theology, particularly in Western traditions. • Dualistic Framework: Plato’s separation of the material world (imperfect, transient) from the eternal world of Forms influenced Christian views of the physical world as fallen and the spiritual realm as divine. This shaped doctrines like the opposition between flesh and spirit (e.g., Galatians 5:17, interpreted dualistically). 2. Persian Influence: • Cosmic Judgment: Persian Zoroastrianism, with its dualistic cosmology of good (Ahura Mazda) versus evil (Angra Mainyu), included concepts of a final judgment, resurrection, and an afterlife where souls face reward or punishment. These ideas, prevalent in the Hellenistic world, likely influenced Jewish apocalyptic thought (e.g., in Daniel and Enochic literature) during the Second Temple period (6th century BCE–1st century CE). Early Christianity, emerging from this Jewish context, adopted similar ideas, such as the Last Judgment (Matthew 25:31–46) and heaven/hell dichotomies. • Moral Dualism: Zoroastrianism’s emphasis on a cosmic battle between good and evil parallels some Christian depictions of God versus Satan, though Christianity reinterprets this through the lens of Jesus’ victory over evil. These influences are evident in how early Christian theologians articulated doctrines. For example, the Church Fathers, engaging with Greco-Roman and Jewish traditions, used Platonic language to explain the soul’s immortality and Persian-influenced apocalyptic imagery to describe judgment. However, the extent to which these are “false” or a departure from Jesus’ teachings depends on how we interpret his message. Jesus’ Message and Absolute Oneness Your claim posits that Jesus’ true message was “Absolute Oneness,” a nondual perspective where distinctions like self/other, divine/human, or good/evil dissolve into a unified reality. Let’s assess this in light of Jesus’ teachings: 1. Evidence for Nonduality: • Unity with God: Jesus emphasizes an intimate connection between God and humanity. In John 17:21–23, he prays, “that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us.” This suggests a profound unity, akin to nondual traditions like Advaita Vedanta or certain mystical interpretations of Christianity. • Immanence of the Kingdom: In Luke 17:21, Jesus says, “The kingdom of God is within you” (or “among you”), implying that divine reality is not separate from human experience but present and accessible, a hallmark of nondual thought. • Breaking Down Dualities: Jesus’ actions—associating with sinners, healing on the Sabbath, challenging legalism—subvert rigid distinctions like clean/unclean or righteous/sinner. The parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25–37) prioritizes universal love over ethnic or religious boundaries. • Paradoxical Teachings: Sayings like “Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it” (Matthew 16:25) embrace paradox, a feature of nondual thought that resists binary categories. • Incarnation: The doctrine that Jesus is both fully divine and fully human (developed later but rooted in his life) embodies a nondual paradox, collapsing the divide between God and humanity. 2. Challenges to Absolute Oneness: • Moral and Eschatological Language: Jesus’ teachings include dualistic elements, such as warnings of judgment (e.g., Matthew 25:41–46, separating the “sheep” from the “goats”) and references to eternal consequences (e.g., Mark 9:43–48, mentioning “hell”). These suggest a moral framework distinguishing right from wrong, though they could be interpreted symbolically rather than literally. • God as Distinct: While Jesus emphasizes unity, he also speaks of God as a distinct entity (e.g., “Our Father” in Matthew 6:9). This relational language might imply a qualified nonduality rather than Absolute Oneness, where distinctions are transcended but not erased. • Historical Context: Jesus operated within a Jewish framework that emphasized God’s transcendence and covenantal relationship with Israel. Absolute Oneness, as understood in nondual traditions, may not fully align with this context, though his teachings push toward a more universal, inclusive vision. Did Dualism Distort Jesus’ Message? Your argument suggests that Platonic and Persian dualisms led to “flawed” doctrines (immortal soul, cosmic judgment) that obscured Jesus’ nondual message. Let’s evaluate: 1. Immortal Soul: • Critique: The Platonic idea of an inherently immortal soul, separate from the body, differs from Jewish views of the afterlife, which often emphasized bodily resurrection (e.g., Daniel 12:2). Jesus’ own teachings focus more on resurrection (e.g., John 11:25, “I am the resurrection and the life”) than an independent soul surviving death. The Platonic soul concept, adopted by later theologians, may have shifted focus from Jesus’ holistic view of human-divine unity to a dualistic body-soul split. • Counterpoint: The immortal soul concept helped Christians articulate the hope of eternal life in a Hellenistic context. It may not be “false” but rather a translation of Jesus’ resurrection-focused teachings into a philosophical idiom, though it arguably introduced a dualism foreign to his message. 2. Cosmic Judgment: • Critique: Persian-influenced ideas of a final judgment, with clear divisions between saved and damned, appear in Christian eschatology (e.g., Revelation). These may clash with a nondual view of Absolute Oneness, where all distinctions dissolve. Jesus’ parables of judgment (e.g., Matthew 13:24–30, wheat and weeds) could be seen as pedagogical tools rather than literal endorsements of cosmic dualism, but later theology often took them literally, amplifying dualistic themes. • Counterpoint: Jesus’ own language of judgment and moral accountability (e.g., Matthew 7:21–23) suggests some form of distinction between alignment with God’s will and rejection of it. This may not be Absolute Oneness but a relational nonduality, where unity is possible but not automatic. 3. Distortion or Adaptation?: • The integration of Platonic and Persian ideas was partly a practical necessity. As Christianity spread beyond its Jewish roots into the Greco-Roman world, it needed to engage with prevailing philosophies and cosmologies. Platonism provided a systematic framework to explain concepts like eternal life, while Persian apocalypticism resonated with Jewish and Christian hopes for divine justice. • However, these frameworks may have obscured Jesus’ nondual emphasis on the present, immanent kingdom and universal love. For example, the focus on a future judgment or a disembodied soul could detract from his call to live out divine unity now (e.g., “love your neighbor as yourself,” Mark 12:31). Absolute Oneness as Jesus’ Core Message Your claim that Jesus’ true message was Absolute Oneness aligns with interpretations found in Christian mysticism (e.g., Meister Eckhart, Julian of Norwich) and modern nondual thinkers (e.g., Richard Rohr). These perspectives emphasize Jesus’ teachings on unity, love, and the dissolution of ego-driven separations. However, Absolute Oneness, as a term, draws from nondual traditions like Advaita Vedanta, which may not fully map onto Jesus’ Jewish context. His message seems to lean toward a relational nonduality—unity with God and others through love and faith—rather than a metaphysical collapse of all distinctions. For example, Jesus’ emphasis on relationship (with God, neighbors, even enemies) suggests a dynamic oneness, where distinctions like self/other persist but are harmonized through love. This differs from Absolute Oneness in some Eastern traditions, where distinctions are ultimately illusory. The Incarnation, central to Christianity, further complicates pure nonduality, as it affirms the reality of both divine and human natures in Jesus, united without dissolving into one another. Addressing the Claim Christianity did inherit dualistic elements from Platonic and Persian thought, particularly the immortal soul and cosmic judgment, which became prominent in later theology. These ideas, while not central to Jesus’ teachings, were adaptations that helped Christianity articulate its message in a Hellenistic and apocalyptic context. However, calling them “false” depends on one’s perspective—they were pragmatic tools for early Christians, though they may have shifted focus from Jesus’ more nondual emphasis on unity and love. Jesus’ message does reflect a profound sense of oneness—God’s presence within, the breaking down of social and religious barriers, and the call to universal love. Whether this constitutes “Absolute Oneness” is debatable, as his teachings retain relational and moral dimensions that imply distinctions, even if they point toward unity. The influence of Plato and Persian thought likely amplified dualistic frameworks, potentially overshadowing the nondual aspects of Jesus’ message, but these were not wholesale distortions so much as cultural translations. Final Answer Christianity adopted dualistic doctrines like the immortal soul (from Plato) and cosmic judgment (influenced by Persian thought), which shaped its theology but may have diverged from Jesus’ emphasis on unity and the immanent kingdom. These doctrines aren’t necessarily “false” but reflect adaptations to make Christianity intelligible in its historical context. Jesus’ message aligns with a form of nondual oneness—emphasizing unity with God and others through love—but it’s more relational than Absolute Oneness in a metaphysical sense. Platonic and Persian influences amplified dualism, but Jesus’ core vision of divine-human unity remains foundational, even if partially obscured by later theological developments.

Do you ever listen to “radical” nonduality ?