Visionary
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Someone I know is a Nichiren Buddhist. Been to a gathering and chanted along with the rest. It was quiet powerful. On the way back home I started crying out of nowhere.
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25 minutes ago, Barna said:For me hate feels like a fear of becoming something. Like, when I hate a politician, that's the same feeling as being afraid of becoming that politician.
YES! Exactly.
For me it wasn't only the fear of becoming something like that, but the realization that I am that in unity. This person that disgusts me is part of existence. It's part of me. How can there be something that allows someone like that? How can there be a God? What is God/existence anyway when this is allowed?
Meaning.. How can I ever be allowed to exist? How can I be loved?
It felt like a deep collective legacy.
We can only hate, love, fear because there is unity in the form of a unifying substratum called existence. We really are what we see. -
12 minutes ago, Barna said:I feel like hatred is not a root issue. I cannot hate without being afraid, but I can be afraid without hating anything. So for me, fear feels more fundamental, that's why I'm targeting fear mostly.
I feel ya. But it certainly was a core wound for me. It's like the direct result of separation and the reason for separation at the same time.
Fear of pain/torture, fear of death, fear of love can all be the ultimate thresholds. Depending on the hardwiring.
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Yeah it's the part that cannot ever feel loved. It's a wound of Self-hatred. Hate for existence, hate for the external world and hate for the internal world. This generates self-doubt and the endless search for love in various ways (achieving success, hot women, personal development.. and lots of other ways that are partly corrupted by this).
Feeling into the Self-Hatred (a horrific gift as Gangaji states) one can realize the "Body of Christ". The objectless awareness/Nothingness carries this core wound. Where this duality collapses, the "unforgivable" is forgiven, the "unlovable" is loved... to death.
Enjoy your high brother
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Ego thrives on Self-Hatred.
It would be very wise to set your intentions clearly with a respectful/loving attitude and wonderment.
This process isn't really about getting answers, it's about loosing questions. Counterintuitvely using questions with a proper intention can make you lose questions.
Non-Duality can masquerade as a hidden agenda for the hidden ego parts that thrive on self-hatred/Self-hatred (hate of existence) and stimulate fragmentation of the personality. -
6 hours ago, Victor Mgazi said:I know, I just hope there are people on this forum who are conscious enough to help me out here.
Sorry, I didn't take the time earlier to completely read the comments and write my own answer. Here it goes:
Rumi speaks of "quivering like a drop of mercury". The intelligence behind it moves like mercury. Have you ever seen how this looks like?
Cynthia Bourgeault (The Heart of Centering Prayer) says the following:
" If you can still recall mercury from the time before ecological concerns drove it out of widespread household use, you'll remember the curious way it behaves when you remove it from its container and let it organize itself on a flat surface. It can either act like a liquid and spread out in a puddle, or it can hold its own shape as a drop, rolling about like a Weeble. Your attention is much like that. In its liquid form it connects subject and object. In its solid, "Weeble" form, it is a tensile field of vibratory awareness, within which you can be conscious of the whole without having to split the field into the usual subject/object polarity. It is actually a higher energetic state. The Tibetan Buddhists call it rigpa: " pure awareness" .
Can't get anymore metaphysical than this lmao.
So this is actually about attention viewed from objectless awareness. The drop does not necessarily reflect on being, it rather reflects being. It does not need to be paid attention to, as it is the subject of attention (not the object).
So very simply put, it would be objectless awareness minus attention. This whole thing I would call Love.
@mandyjw
Awesome answers -
Now that's a high quality question man.
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Well there wouldn't be anything to know. Thats the problem with experiences.. you want "to know".
Enlightenment is a realization without a knower. Thats the ultimate sacrifice. There won't be anyone to "know" anything as knowing is a result of awareness. Awareness always preceeds knowing.
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On 10-4-2020 at 1:45 PM, Ibn Sina said:That is a very wrong conception of morality.
And from my experience, morality works while the contrary has never (except temporary).I have become a very vindictive person trust me, I have become brooding, very reactionary, and egoic and also unforgiving . Was like that for years.
Then I research psychology articles and it says- Forgive people.It works.
One day I talked with people nicely, it worked, it felt good..
Morality doesn't mean just action. It means thoughts as well. I decided to stop myself from negative thinking. It worked.It is working for me. So that's that.
And it's a continuos process, it's not like an offering to God, but having an overall positive attitude, and psychologically it works, written by psychologists.
Forgiveness is in the deepest form actually a karma dissolving and thus highly energetic releasing process. If done properly it can dissolve lots of subject/object garbage.
True Morality is not just a mere choice. It's true integrity which can only be the result of surrender and oneness. Or else it will just be protocol. Protocol can always be updated to a newer and higher version ofcourse.
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Hate of others = Self-hatred (with a capital S).
It's hating a part of existence/being (which is a part of you).
Self-Hatred is one of the last egoic obstacles one needs to transcend and integrate. Non-duality and personal development are also camouflages for the parts of us that hate others/ourselves/existence.
Especially at the deepest level you realize that hating others is equal to hating yourself.
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4 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:Bud... an important step in these kind of explorations is understanding what Enlightenment Awakening Liberation actually mean
An apparent individual can probably have hundreds if not thousands of non-dual mystical experiences that seem great ...but when they're over The ME returns and the egoic self agenda resumes as normal...
These can be considered non-dual mystical experiences or glimpses ...they have nothing to do with real Spiritual Enlightenment Awakening or Liberation in any way at all.
If the ME has not been recognized to be an illusion Awakening has not occurred...
I can probably reference or show you 50 or more sources to validate what I'm talking about... just in case you were wondering
There is Awareness of Void.
There is Awareness of No-Self.
There is Awareness of Non-Being.
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4 hours ago, VeganAwake said:Yeah but posting is happening at this time... other things can happen also like sandwiching and coffeeing ❤
None of which is more important than the other ?
Yet there seems to be a sandwich and a cup of coffee. Both with their own specific qualities. They don't taste the same. One is liquid, other is solid. All within consciousness sure. With the No-Self and all that.
And I know that a sandwich, a cup of coffee, liquid and solid are labels trust me. I know it. At the end of the day we don't eat our coffee or drink our sandwich. The happening is intelligence in action. And intelligence is not "something" that is seperate from "everything". It is differentiating itself (language implies causality).
Formlesness and Form need eachother to transcend eachother.
Edit: stuff not being important is always a half truth. It lacks love/being Vegan. Formlesness is not merely an escape for Form.
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Being is love. Release every aspect of yourself you're holding back into Being as a loving surrender.
And indeed we are here to honour every damn nasty emotion that comes up. We salute it as the perfection that it is and stop lying to it by distancing from it (like owning the emotions, "my" emotions)
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53 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:yes a lot of assumptions... it's just sensed from reading his material..
That's the thing about Tony he's not trying to transmit anything... any energy or path or method would simply be perpetuating the belief that there is a seperate individual that can find something called liberation..
It's kind of funny in Denmark they call him the Terminator because he's helped awaken so many people....
I honestly appreciate your feedback though a lot of good information shared here...thank you
An energetic transmission actually only occurs when the ego gets out of the way. The transmitters can't take credits for anything.
A normal speech would be like "Tony" having a "burning candle" and lighting up "your candle" as your candle would continue the burning itself. Which is illusory and incomplete.
An energetic transmission is a recognition by your candle that it has been burning all along. The less resistance to it, the stronger the transmission becomes. It works on a different level than intellect. A transmission is a direct way of decontracting your ego structure.
Edit: people like Papaji and Gangaji for example. They have a Shakti that can burn up lotsa karma and ego structures into No-thingness. I can only watch 1 vid a day of these guys, more would be too much. The less ego the more energy you will transmit as being anchored in Presence.
Thank you too man.
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17 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:I've definitely heard this material before...
I've heard this guy talk several times... not a fan... these guys all Advocate that there's some kind of path that can be followed or steps taken to reach the top(ultimate stage)
This is not at all how Liberation works( quite literally the opposite)... Liberation is not a gaining of knowledge for the illusory individual... it's a falling away of the entire self structure/egoic self agenda driving the machine.
There's a noticeable insecurity and lack of understanding in this statement below:
This new sage can protest vehemently that there is nobody here, there is only no-self, I don't exist - but it just doesn't ring true. Who exactly is it who is asserting that they don't exist? It smells a little fishy.
He sounds to me like somebody who had a deep experience but didn't quite reach liberation... didn't quite shatter the paradigm completely.
He probably now resents others that did and makes a story that there are more stages past this because he's upset he didn't attain it or it wasn't full Awakening and it didn't stick.
That's just what is seen here, it could be completely wrong..
Thank you very much for the information ❤
That's a lot of assumptions my friend. This is by no means meant to be a linear chronological developmental map for people to be attached to.
He actually does speak about liberation. But the ghost town of No-Self ain't it. It is enlightenment, but not liberation.
People like Tony Parsons actually don't seem self-realized to me. Energetically they don't transmit a thing.
Much love.
Thanks my man
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@VeganAwake
Here are some passages from Ramaji's book '1000'
Since this non-doership is such a big change, and there is no experience of a seperate self anymore, it is easy to understand how this stage might be thought of as the ultimate stage. But it is not. There may be an enjoyable "glow" phase after this awakening. It may last for a few months. It may last for years.
This new sage can protest vehemently that there is nobody here, there is only no-self, I don't exist - but it just doesn't ring true. Who exactly is it who is asserting that they don't exist? It smells a little fishy.
It's not wrong exactly, but it isn't right, either. The situation is a bit like being hungry and going to a restaurant that serves, as its specialty, non-food. Can you eat non-food? Can you eat a non-apple? You can talk about a non-apple all day, but you cannot eat a non-apple ever.
To make sense of what a non-apple is, you need to know what an apple is. Being an advocate of non-violence makes sense because you know what violence is. No-Self NEEDS a Self.
There is an attachment to No-Self and Non-doing. Therefore there is a problem with self and doing.
Many who arrive at this stage spend the rest of their lives there. They believe this non-doing "no self" or "life without a self" is IT.
Ramaji speaks of a negation rather than a transcendence. A complete self-realized person abides in the Absolute, in the Self, all concepts, all notions of other and all ideas of world are annihilated.
The No-Self person has not annihilated this as he needs the Self tot separate itself from. -
53 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:The opposite of what you just said is true...
Nothing matters infinitely...why
Because the YOU that believes things matter is an illusion... not kind of an illusion not sort of an illusion ...there isn't a you inside the body period.
You could explain all day how something matters for No One but trust me it doesn't ?
it's not a debatable topic it's simply the case.
Yes of course, but you misunderstand what I'm saying.
For things to matter is not an individual decision. It's beingness. Mattering/not-mattering is all there is/not-is. Your statements benefit the people who have kinda progressed on this path.
But can be very dangerous to the young folk who can misinterpret it.
What we're discussing here falls into the dualistic problem within language. So why not choose the words carefully and be more nuanced?
What you're saying is true. No-thing does matter infinitely.
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20 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:Yes and to even say anything is going too far when it comes to the Absolute/Pure Formlessness...
it just is..it just......... --- end all form and language now just pure bliss - not even pure bliss that is going too far ----
No teaching is the highest teaching because the highest teaching is the collapse of teaching. It is Being.
THIS
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6 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:If you would have said lmao one more time it would have been a new forum record.?
Everything matters for no one... that's interesting.
Your whole story kind of just falls apart they're so there's no need to go any further.
Lmfao
Which story? Is there a story? Is there a me? Is there a you? (must resist....can't....resist...L-M-A-O).
You should know there is a certain responsibility when advocating "nothing matters", especially when there are a lot of young members here getting lost in endless psychological loops. Stuff matters infinitely. It just doesn't need us do the mattering. And it kinda does. -
5 hours ago, VeganAwake said:No you're not getting it... nothing actually matters because there isn't anyone here for it to matter for...
The self that you think you are inside the human body is an illusion(MAYA)
How could something matter for No One
Reality = mattering or matterness (lmao) = it matters as an intrinsic process to itself which is No-Self (that doesn't mean it's no one)
So Everything DOES matter. Just for No-One.
No One can only exist because of matterness. LMAO. In a way this is also wrong, because this implies causality. They are actually both the same and ain't.
Duality is actually where the illusion is created that things really can't matter, because of seperation of existence. On a deep level the ego thrives on fighting against meaninglessness, so it needs things to not matter for its own hidden agenda (which eventually matters, so it can't lie its own way out of it lmao).
To conclude: No-thing Matters means No-thingness' essence is matterness. And things can only matter because there is No One, because Reality is REAL.
Meaninglesness is an illusion that the ego needs for his own agenda, so it can fight against it. Ego's fight is against meaninglessness to give meaning as a way of overcoming the illusory fight.
So the way the ego 'gives meaning' is inherently flawed as it always assumes there is a separation/meaninglesness, not knowing that everything is mattering for its own as its own. Edit: even this flawed process matters lmao. -
One tip I really want to give you is that surrender is certainly NOT a psychological rejection. That is creating more stories and can become quite troublesome.
It's rather awareness of focused attention and then releasing this through a relaxing intention.
Key point to realize is that awareness is always here and comes before your doing/actions.
Letting go is eventually quite a physical undertaking. The focused attention is mostly somewhere around the headspace (as your imaginary ego supposedly should reside there). Through relaxing the physical attention into the open awareness that is always here and has nothing to do with your doing/actions, you learn to coincide with the consciousness rather than get lost into infinite psychological loops.
The Heart of Centering prayer - Cynthia Bourgeault (book) explains this very neatly.
She also has this vid that could ignite some curiousity.
Wish you the best.
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How beautiful is the privilege to like and dislike stuff?
Especially when we allow it to happen Freedom is one step closer
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17 minutes ago, Nahm said:I feel like the tug of war is counterintuitively won in letting go.
I feel like diet is more important than psychology.
I feel like talking about love with anyone who forgot.
I feel like that is impossible. Except I can do it.
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15 minutes ago, traveler said:I dont feel great physically. I have a lot of pressure in my head every day. I can't have a good sleep, and I cant breathe through my nose because of sinus pressure.
All in all I'm pretty disoriented, hopeless and confused. Also fear, as my normal state of consciousness wants to expand. I dont know what that entails, if I let go into total unknowing.
So many people brother, so many people experience this.
I feel that grounding myself helps a lot.
There was some knee-jerk reaction in me that said: i feel this suffering, so this must be ego. So i must do this and that to plot my way out of this confusion and feeling. We need to stop this over-analyzing and just be with our feelings and confusion like a warm blanket.
Wish you the best.
in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Posted
THANK YOU, dearest Nahm
Much love
There is little value in getting stuff intellectually. I would recommend a very open attitude of not-Knowing (which is NOT an intellectual attitude of rejection) and wonderment. Non-duality can be a hidden agenda for our shadow personalities who actually do not want to exist at all and are fueled by self-hatred. Try to filter your perceptions of concepts and view everything with fresh new eyes. Or else you'd be seeking for a theoretical confirmation with those eyes.
Surrendering to a Higher/Divine Will can only be achieved as a person. If you're an energy sensitive person I would recommend Yoga, Tai Chi, spiritual transmissions, Matt Kahn.
I would recommend to read the work of Cynthia Bourgeault (The Heart of Centering Prayer). This is a high quality book. She explains how Grace emerges as an energetic shift. She teaches a beautiful technique and has a lot of background info on how we can shift into the nondual state of consciousness.
I also would recommend transmissions by Peter Cutler (youtube channel the Enlightened Way).
PLEASE do not get trapped into the intellectual interpretation of this work where words like meaninglesness and No Free Will are actually nothing but possibilities for a toxic misinterpretation (which could also lead shadow integration.. but still.... i wouldn't be doing that).