[I Keep Getting Hostile Rejections After Things (Seemed) To Be Going Well]

@Mada_ Actually things seem to be really working out for me since I made that initial post because I actually hooked up with another girl just now who I started talking to on tinder. And this happened immediately after that last painful rejection from the other person who thought I was an incel.

And I'm pretty sure I did well because this time I got a text message after the date thanking me for such a good time. And I was also paying very close attention to her body language the whole time to make sure she was comfortable with the escalation and asking if she was ok with what I was doing. 

Although the main issue that I'm having now is that I was very tense and anxious for the majority of the date because I was expecting things to go terribly wrong at any moment if I made a wrong move, like with previous encounters.

[I Keep Getting Hostile Rejections After Things (Seemed) To Be Going Well]

@Raze Does mentioning terms like incel, pick up artist and red pill automatically cause most people especially women to make negative assumptions about misogyny, toxic masculinity and being far right? Or is this mostly dependent on their political views because I have pretty much only been able to attract people who are LGBTQ and they tend to be far left.

I kind of just thought that incels are mainly guys with social anxiety and shyness, and view pick up as about improving your social skills to become more attractive. And that they're not directly related to the stigmatized labels mentioned above but it can be easy to see them that way because of the loudest voices saying the most controversial things which can easily grab attention.

[I Keep Getting Hostile Rejections After Things (Seemed) To Be Going Well]

I can’t tell what I’m doing wrong but I have this issue where I seem to have found someone else I’m compatible with and we get along well but then during the conversation I say something that totally offends them, and they suddenly want to get away from me and I never see them again. This has happened at least four times to me now. 

The first was a girl I dated from cold approach who acted as if she was attracted to me and interested in seeing me again. But then after the date I get a long, angry and hostile text message about how I should not have kissed her because she did not want me to and my behavior was totally inappropriate. Even though she did not say stop. And she also claimed that I insulted her multiple times too. Although I don't know exactly how because she continued being nice to me during the date as if everything was fine.

The most recent times this has happened were people that I matched with from tinder.

One of them was a guy I hooked up with (I’m a guy) but he walked out on me immediately after sex when I told him I was feeling physically sick. And claimed he felt hurt by this. 

The other was a nonbinary person who I was spending hours each day video calling and having very long texts messages with getting to know them and we were planning to go on a nice date.

But then they immediately unmatched and blocked me after I told them that I used to be an incel and watched pick up artist videos.

They must have interpreted our great chemistry this whole time as some kind of pick up artist manipulation scheme because they told me that I made them think that I was the only one for them. And I need to completely drop pick up and incel ideology. (even though I only briefly mentioned these things and don't take them seriously)

Oh and another girl I messaged on tinder who got offended when I asked her if she needed help losing weight (because she is plus size and I'm into fitness), and she proceeds to tell me that she is only going to date me if I have a big dick because that’s what you need for the sex to be good. Otherwise have a good day.

These rejections felt much worse than just approaching someone and they say they are in a relationship and then I just leave. Because they were prolonged interactions beyond the initial approach. 

Making me think this was leading to a relationship. And I was still being polite and friendly the entire time, so I don’t get it.

What things could be causing this?

 

[Should men talk about their feelings and express their emotions?]

I get confused about this because it's seen as toxic masculinity if your a guy that suppresses your feelings and keeps them to yourself but then there are other people on the internet giving dating advice saying that women lose attraction and respect if you communicate openly about your feelings or cry for example and they will end up leaving or cheating on you. So you basically need to act stoic and tough like your always in control.

And I'm a young guy so I don't have enough experience to know what's true, any advice?    

[How do I convert strange skills into money.]

Make lots of Youtube videos related to the skill you're good at until the channel reaches monetization status.

[Do feminists and leftists hate pickup and cold approach?]

@something_else

12 hours ago, something_else said:

It’s outside the norm of society and it’s a fairly selfish behaviour. You’re basically saying that you’re willing to annoy and creep out hundreds of women just to get some sex. I know this is not how the guy sees it but it’s how a lot of women see PUA style guys

It’s mainly a daygame issue, I’ve never had an interaction go that badly out at night because trying to hookup or flirt on a night out is a social norm

Ideally you should probably just not give a fuck, but quantitative spammy daygame like that is just going to get less and less socially acceptable as time goes on

Do you think there is any possible way to make daytime approaches look totally natural or is it always going to be at least a little bit awkward because it's outside social norms and you just have to not give a fuck? 

I still want to use it as my main way of meeting girls even though it's harder and I really want to perfect the approach because I like it when I get super positive reactions.

 

[Do feminists and leftists hate pickup and cold approach?]

@Ulax

2 hours ago, Ulax said:

I'll have a go at making some guesses.

One because there is a greater public awareness of pick up artists these days. So some will have a certain understanding of what the intention and mindset is of these pick up guys that comes from that awareness. From what I've seen it tends to be a negative perception. And then they project that understanding onto the pick up guy.

Also, though pick up is legal, its outside of social norms, so people feel less of a sense of stability, and perhaps by devaluing pick up guys, they have a greater sense of stability.

Also, I'd say there are lots of other incentives for criticising and devaluing pick up behaviours. I.e. opportunity to gain acceptance and trust amongst one's peer group. For example, a guy walking with group of girls. Or i.e. people don't accept the part of themselves which goes against social norms, and so project the contempt they hold for that part of themselves onto someone who they see going against social norms.

Yeah, I think that sounds like a pretty good explanation.

So it sounds like that puts a huge amount of pressure on pickup guys then because they are risking being ostracized and losing a lot of status in the eyes of others.

Which would have been a risk to survival during primitive times.

Do you have any theories to explain why we do it anyway despite the risks? 

 

[Do feminists and leftists hate pickup and cold approach?]

@Leo Gura What is the best way to respond when stuff like this happens though because I don't really see any dating coaches or PUAs giving advice about what to do when interactions go seriously bad? Are you just supposed to maintain the fun and flirty vibe no matter what happens?

[Do feminists and leftists hate pickup and cold approach?]

I'm referring to stuff like what happened in this video at (2:30) where some onlookers step in and act as if they are saving the girl from being a victim of sexual harassment and accusing the guy of being a creep just for approaching a girl and trying to flirt.

But I don't think he did anything wrong and I can relate to what happened to him because of
how I've experienced situations similar to this where I'm being totally friendly and respectful on the approach but then the people that were nearby watching start losing their minds and act as if the girl is a victim and I'm somehow the aggressor. Even though I'm still trying to be socially calibrated but it's still not good enough for them.

And it's like they just don't think that it's ok for a male to talk to a female on the street for any reason as if it's a crime. So I'm wondering what is the psychology that is fueling these hostile reactions that people give when seeing a guy cold
approach a woman and does it actually have anything to do with feminism like the title of the video suggests?

 

 

[Am I doing something seriously wrong on the cold approach?]

@NoSelfSelf

Every approach is relatively the same but I will change the lines that I say after the girl looks at me and I still get the same responses.

Like this:

Me: "excuse me"

Girl: looks at me

Me: "I think you're beautiful" OR "I think you're pretty"

Girl: "oh thank you"

Me: "So I was wondering if you'd be interested in getting to know me"

Girl: "that's nice but I have a boyfriend"

Me "ok then"

Girl: "Have a good day"

The girl's responses will vary but I've heard them say the same few things over and over again, it's either "I have a boyfriend" or "I'm gay" or "no thank you" or "i'm not looking for a relationship".

And on extremely rare occasions they say "ok" and we actually have a conversation but it feels like it had nothing to do with me and I just found a lonely girl that wanted someone to talk to.

 

[Am I doing something seriously wrong on the cold approach?]

I'm getting close to 400 cold approaches now ever since I started doing daygame. Almost all my approaches end in instant rejection where the girl says she has a boyfriend or she's just not interested, and I will
occasionally get rude responses where the girl walks away without saying anything after I get her attention and give her a compliment like saying she's pretty or beautiful.

It still feels like I have zero game, and every approach is very awkward and I'm probably making girls feel uncomfortable or offended even though I'm not trying to. I don't know how to tell what I'm doing wrong and getting more infield experience
doesn't seem to be enough to help me improve from this point. This is also making me feel really frustrated and confused because I don't know what to do and I keep on returning home empty-handed over and over again.

I'm beginning to question if it's even possible
to improve in this area now. Only 1 in every 100 girls is actually willing to go on a date with me and it just feels like a complete numbers game. The main way that I have benefited from doing this is that I now have a much better ability to deal with stress because I had to overcome approach anxiety so many times but besides that, I still can't really attract any girls. Does anyone have any advice that could help me out?
 

[How Do You Deal With False Accusations When Doing Pickup?]

Yes, I think that the issue is that I forgot to take into account that different places have different unwritten rules and expectations that the majority of people choose to abide by.
If anybody deviates from this then they are seen as weird and potentially dangerous. So the environment on public transport, for example, is expected to be quiet and no one should be talking
to people they don't know. And then the unwritten rules change at different times and places like in a shopping center or at a party or a classroom or the workplace for example.

But is following all the unwritten rules like everyone else just a conventional way of functioning in the world?

Now I'm wondering if going against the grain of society has benefits as well?
 

[How Do You Deal With False Accusations When Doing Pickup?]

I was on a quiet but crowded train today heading home when out of nowhere a beautiful girl suddenly gets on board and sits in a vacant seat nearby.
I instantly get up knowing that it's now or never and make my way over to her and begin my approach. I politely tell her that I think she's very pretty and that I'd like to know if she'd be interested in dating me, she responds by
saying "ok".

So I sit next to her and try to start a conversation but she's only responding with short one-word answers and there is a small crowd of people on the train looking at us at the same time which is creating a lot of tension. Shortly after I realize that this conversation is going nowhere because the girl is hardly responding so I leave the interaction and walk over to the exit to get off the train but while I'm waiting at the exit for the doors to open I notice a group of girls coming over to the girl that I was just talking to and asking her if she was ok. They were also giving me these horrible looks as well like I just did something horrible. I then realized that they think that I'm a bad guy so I try to approach the group and tell them that I was just trying to be friendly and one of the girls interrupts me and shouts out "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!" with an aggressive tone of voice.

Now I'm really worried that they are going to report me to the police and accuse me of sexual harassment or assault. And if it doesn't happen then I'm worried that I'm going to eventually get a criminal record if I continue doing pickup. 

This is only what happens in an extreme minority of approaches though, it's important for me to point that out.

So far I've done about 350 approaches since I started doing this about a year and a half ago. The vast majority of my cold approaches go well, where I go in direct and politely state my intentions and the girl usually smiles and continues talking in some cases, or in most cases says "thank you but I've
got a boyfriend", and so I say ok and move on. 

However, a very small minority of approaches go catastrophically wrong like this one and I get a hostile reaction either from the girl or from the surrounding audience and I'm finding it so hard to deal with.
This is because it seems completely unavoidable, it's like a mathematical certainty that if you keep approaching more and more women you will eventually approach the wrong person at the wrong time with dire consequences.

During my first 100 approaches for example I tried approaching a girl that was standing at the entrance of the city's central station. I thought this would be a good spot to approach because it has high foot traffic. But as I make my way over to her a group of police officers that were patrolling the area coincidentally walked around the corner that was right behind where the girl was standing. I decide to go ahead with the approach anyway and they responded by stopping what they were doing and watched me very closely, then right after I politely introduced myself to the girl they quickly marched over and stood in between me and
the girl and started acting very hostile and aggressive toward me. 

Accusing me of making the girl uncomfortable. Luckily I didn't get arrested or charged but these hostile interactions, are extremely stressful and the other people involved don't care about seeing things from your point of view and instead think that you are just a criminal.