spiritual memes

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Posts posted by spiritual memes

  2. Posted

    I've been reading some buddhist teachers talking about Nirodha-samāpatti. They describe it as a complete cessation of all consciousness. Like blipping out of existence. 

    Daniel Ingram states:

    ''It is not that nirodha samapatti is necessary, but it is a good and useful thing to be able to attain. In fact, I have not yet spoken with anyone who had attained it who didn’t consider it the absolute King Daddy of meditation attainments other than arahantship, as the depth of its afterglow never fails to impress and amaze''

    i have also heard people like Frank yang and others on this forum state that it is a higher level to God realisation (which is actually only the 6th Jhana).

    My current intuition is that God realisation and infinite love are the highest awakenings but cessation both interests me and kind of scares me.

    Absolute infinity vs absolute nothingness

    Is there anyone that has experienced both cessation and God realization? And if so which one is the higher one?

  5. Posted

    2 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

    I could also use my phone camera and take a picture of it in the mirror. The image of my phone is in the picture and yet was the source of the image. How do we know the brain doesn’t work like that?

    When you look at the phone screen, you see the image. The image is the collection of pixels on a screen.

    when you cut open someone's brain, you don't see the colour blue or the smell of coffee, only neurons. Yet all of this exists in your conscious experience.

  11. Posted

    I've been doing IFS every day and ive stopped journalling because there are too many parts to count. I've removed a significant emotional blockage which was a foundation of my entire mind. My underlying shame surrounding sex and my inability and desperation to get it is completely gone. 

    I feel free but also empty like i've lost a part of myself. Turns out this underlying shame was on of the reasons I started self improvement in the first place.

  14. Posted

    7 hours ago, Dino D said:

    So non dualist denies anything that is outside of experience no matter what prove and argument you put it...

    You misunderstand me. I don't deny the existence of thinks outside of my individual subjective awareness. The most reasonable thing to assume is that there is an external world outside of my awareness. I can understand this external world by using mental constructs. One mental construct is matter. However I have no access to any other category of existence other than consciousness. Therefore the most reasonable assumption is that the external world is also made of consciousness. A materialist posits a new category of existence that is ontologically separate from consciousness that then gives rise to consciousness through its behaviours. 

    7 hours ago, Dino D said:

    You're dogmatic (and never experienced, and there is not one practical implication, manifestation or prove of it) that it is unified...

    How am I being dogmatic? Have you ever experienced anything separate from your conscious awareness?

    7 hours ago, Dino D said:

    The illusion that things are separate is useful for your survival so you take it as absolute truth not because it is actually true.  When you see trught an illusion that should make you able to ,,do" somethig... so if separation is illusion, o there is a illusionry wall I cant cross it... then i see the truh and just go trught the wall... its funny with your truth that you can not do ONE more thing, or anything that is true...

    I have no idea what your trying to say. With my truth I can explain both consciousness and the behaviour of the external world. Unlike materialism.

    7 hours ago, Dino D said:

    Those are not same analogies... in a dream (rupet spira says) there is me objects, planets and so on but it is all the same mind, no space no time all me... you can do it with water also... but a fridge and Washing machine are not when they are connected to the electrical system, and they are not ONE ELECTRICAL SYstem or extension of it   ... looking if from a human and earthly perspective, those are two connected things, but a dream is one manifestation of one SOMETHING, what ever

    I don't know what you are trying to say here.

    7 hours ago, Dino D said:

    how does a camera take a photo, how does a PC put output when you put input...

    This is a false equivalency as there are no explanatory gaps in your examples. There is a difference between the neurons in my brain when i see the colour green and the experience of the colour green. When you cut open a brain, there is no colour green.

    7 hours ago, Dino D said:

    how subjective experience is possible evan if not explained fully, it can be accepted as possible and as a property of matter with which it transfers energy and processes it.

    If you think consciousness is a fundamental property of matter then that is panspychism, not materialism.

    7 hours ago, Dino D said:

    when you take out your brain there is no experience

    How do you know? Seems a bit dogmatic.

    7 hours ago, Dino D said:

    So when a pc works, there has to be something in it that experiences the energy process and the information processing procedure..

    Again, this is panpsychism, not materialism. 

    8 hours ago, Dino D said:

    and even if it is one and the same field, that does not matter because it has nothing effectively useful, practical and real from that property which is then shown to be only theoretically correct, while according to every other criterion reality exists as separate and only as such in a relative sense we exist, live and function, whatever it may be, matter or field or soul...

    You literally just admitted here that you would choose practicality over truth. This is exactly what the ego mind does. Is this not the definition of dogma? You would still believe in materialist even if it were proven that everything is one field.

    8 hours ago, Dino D said:

    because as a man, we can live and exist like that only as a theoretical idea or dogma in his head, not in his reality

    But all separations are theoretical ideas in your head.

    8 hours ago, Dino D said:

    Thank you for your politeness btw. Also... I dont think you should answer anymore, we agree to disagree and I'm open that I'm wrong and humble enough to KNOW one thing for sure, I DONT KNOW what is right about it, I do not even believe in my viewpoints, and who am I to understand the most demanding questions of existence and the universe in general... I see the logic in what you talk (I listen to this now for 7-8 years) and it has something to it, but what seems to me to be more reasonable, more acceptable, more logical and more accurate is exactly what I have presented myself, so even though proof is a relative technique according to my perception, what I have stated seems more evident...

    Its a shame that you don't want to debate anymore but I do agree that this debate was going nowhere.

    I think the main problem is that you don't actually understand idealism and nonduality and instead attack a straw man version of it. Perhaps if you actually understood what I was trying to argue, we would have a better debate. If you want understand the idealist/nondual argument better then I would recommend the works of Bernardo Kastrup and Donald Hoffmann.

    While I disagree with you and was perhaps annoyed by a lack of logic in certain arguments, I do admire the fact that you admit that you don't know everything.

    Thx and have a nice day.

     

     

  15. Posted

    14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

    Sounds to me like the only thing that will awaken you from your illusions is actually being forced to live under an authoritarian communist regime like that of Mao or Stalin.

    Its interesting because my parents lived under Mao and they have an extremely favourable view of his regime. I know there's a lot of propaganda involved but still...

  19. Posted

    13 hours ago, Dino D said:

    you just belive that from your interpretations of your non dual experiences, whitc never gave you that we are all one, but you interpreted the experiences of your pure awareness like we are all one...

    Straw man argument. I simply doubt the existence of separation. I only experience a unified field of conscious awareness. Separations are things my mind generates. I gave you proof in the example of quantum fields.

    13 hours ago, Dino D said:

    what us severest can be argumenta with 1000 arguments that are practical

    And they were all disproved with a field analogy. You are still identifying with the contents of consciousness rather than the underlying consciousness itself. 

    13 hours ago, Dino D said:

    cut of your hand, i dont feel you, you live you die, youre here youre not, youre not the stone and so on),

    You are begging the question as your arguments implicitly assume a separation between things (i.e. a circular argument). You have not yet understood the idea that 'you' and 'me' are excited states of one underlying field. You are accusing me of not using logic, yet these arguments are not logical at all.

    13 hours ago, Dino D said:

    why cant you say, we are all one i can stop the sun, or travel to mars in an instant, or feel my hand... you cant do or precipitate one thing, but you claim non dual theory that where it should be possible not to do ONE thing, but all of them 

    Another strawman argument, I have never claimed such a thing. You are mistaking your ego mind with the universal consciousness. Your ego mind 

    is a pattern within universal consciousness.

    13 hours ago, Dino D said:

    I also believe in the practical reality... i don't know know what the universe is and how it is build, i dont understand atoms or if they truly exists but I know what is practical, logic and what is the FuC n truth, and for me that is the real truth, what IS and what works, and what is possible...

    This is the main crux of your problem and most other materialists. Conceptual separations are 'practical' but they are not real. You care more about practicality than the truth. The illusion that things are separate is useful for your survival so you take it as absolute truth not because it is actually true. Practical is not the same as true. You care more about survival than truth which is fine.

    9 hours ago, Dino D said:

    lets say all electric devices can be connected to the same electrical field in one house, but that does not make all electrical devices in that house one and the same electrical devices...

    They would be part of the same circuit. The concept of separate devices exists in your mind. What makes devices separate? your mind does. Now extend that analogy to every object in the universe.

    You accuse me of using dogma yet you posit separation as absolute truth without ever questioning it. This is literally dogma. 

    There are extremely analytical, logical arguments for nonduality made by philosophers and scientists like Bernardo Kastrup and Donald Hoffman. Since we don't have access to anything besides consciousness, why assume anything else except consciousness exists?

    Here is the most important question that no materialist can answer. How does unconscious matter give rise to subjective experience? The reason I abandoned materialism for nonduality was because materialism cannot even begin to answer this question.

    Thank you for your politeness btw.

  20. Posted

    1 minute ago, Realms of Wonder said:

    @spiritual memes Reframed your question

     

    Prompt: Explain how to solve the hard problem of consciousness?

     

    The problem of consciousness, or the question of how and why we have subjective experiences, is one of the most challenging and enigmatic issues in philosophy and science. It is not yet fully understood, and there is ongoing debate and research in this area.

    One approach to understanding consciousness is through the study of neuroscience, which investigates the brain and its functions. Researchers in this field have made significant progress in understanding the brain mechanisms that underlie various mental states, such as perception, attention, and memory. However, it is not yet clear how these brain mechanisms give rise to subjective experiences, and the relationship between brain activity and consciousness remains an open question.

    Another approach to understanding consciousness is through the study of philosophy and metaphysics, which involve theoretical and abstract thinking about the nature of reality. Philosophers have proposed a variety of theories about consciousness, including dualism, which posits that consciousness is a separate entity from the physical body, and materialism, which argues that consciousness is a product of the brain and its functions.

    Ultimately, the problem of consciousness is a complex and multifaceted issue, and it may take a combination of approaches from various fields of study to fully understand it. While we may not yet have all the answers, the study of consciousness is an active and vibrant area of research that continues to generate new insights and ideas.

    Yeah I got that when I reloaded. Still surprised that this was the prompt that broke it xD

  22. Posted

    4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

    Notice that what makes these AIs so intelligent is their lack of ego, bias, and ideology. They just give you clean, neutral answers which almost no human is capable of due to all the personal bias which comes from having a worldview and ego.

    Which just goes to show you how much ego is distorting all human reasoning.

    Intelligence requires neutrality.

    That's because this AI was trained on huge, diverse amounts of data. There was a GPT AI trained on 4chan that started spouting toxic hate speech.

    https://www.analyticsinsight.net/how-4chan-trained-ai-became-a-hate-speech-machine/

     

  23. Posted

    2 hours ago, Dino D said:

    A whirlpool on one side of the world cannot interact with a wave on the other side of the world even though they are aspects of one ocean... Its not one ocean not in a materialistic way, not in a conscious way... its just water (atoms or drops) pressed together so the analogy about water from one ocean can not be applied to humas... you could press 100 humans together, there are still 100 humans, or one pressed bunch of humans called ,,ocean"...

    The water is just an analogy. The separations you are making are mentally constructed. What separates one thing from another? Its your mind that draws the imaginary line. If you want to talk about atoms, then according to quantum field theory all particles are excitations of their underlying field. For example, electrons are excited states of the electron field. In the same way, human minds can be considered excited states of the universal field of consciousness.

    2 hours ago, Dino D said:

    ONE is something that you can not separate without losing the essence of that one, or where it does not get party destroyed, or where it has one (conscious)  control center that can not control outside of it boundaries...

    The separations are mind generated and not really real. 

    2 hours ago, Dino D said:

    so my left hand and right hand are independent in a sense and the left does not know what the right does (but the brain can know), but they are both connected do the brain, and if i cut one off its done... all of my body has special conception to all of it, or my body mind... but it has 0 connection to your body or body-mind... I dont see and practical argument or  prove where you can say that you and me are even connected, let alone being ONE...

    See back to my whirlpool analogy. 

    2 hours ago, Dino D said:

    Ok what is the difference and how you know?

    The difference is the same difference as a whirlpool and an ocean. You can know simply by being aware of your own mind and the sensation of 'you'.

    2 hours ago, Dino D said:

    and when I say give me proof, logical arguments, rational explanations, anything ,,tangible'' you get philosophical with trick or attacking rational thinking, prove, or logic...

    Ok if you want to be logical, how do you prove materialism? How does unconscious matter give rise to subjective experience? Otherwise you are just asserting without evidence.

    thx

  24. Posted

    4 hours ago, Cathal said:

    @spiritual memes

    You can apply this story to yourself and all beings whom you come to argument with

    The Story of the Donkey and Tiger

    The donkey told the tiger: 
    ′′The grass is blue". 
    The tiger replied: 
    ′′No, the grass is green".

    The discussion became heated up, and the two decided to submit the issue to arbitration, and to do so they approached the lion, King of the Jungle. 

    Before reaching the clearing in the forest where the lion was sitting on his throne, the donkey started screaming:
    ′′Your Highness, is it true that grass is blue?".
    The lion replied:
    "True, the grass is blue". 

    The donkey rushed forward and continued: 
    ′′The tiger disagrees with me and contradicts me and annoys me please punish him".
    The king then declared:
    ′′The tiger will be punished with 5 years of silence".

    The donkey jumped for joy and went on his way, content and repeating:
    ′′The grass is blue"...

    The tiger accepted his punishment, but he asked the lion:
    ′′Your Majesty, why have you punished me, after all, the grass is green?"
    The lion replied:
    ′′In fact, the grass is green".
    The tiger asked:
    ′′So why do you punish me?"
    The lion replied:
    ′′That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is not possible for a brave, intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with a donkey, and on top of that to come and bother me with that question".

    The worst waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn't care about truth or reality, but only the victory of their beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on discussions that make no sense... There are people who for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand, and others who are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and the only thing that they want is to be right even if they aren’t. When ignorance screams, intelligence shuts up. Your peace and tranquility are worth more.

    Author unknown

    Kinda wish I had read this like 5 minutes ago...

  25. Posted

    @Dino D What you are doing is called a gish gallop. You are posting an overwhelming number of arguments all of which lack quality.

    ''During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of many specious arguments, half-truths, misrepresentations, and outright lies in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate''

    anyways...

    On 16/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Dino D said:

    my radical open-mindedness has led me to believing everything witch is also false... this can go also in dark ways (where i did not go)but for example, lets just try pedophilia, heroin or whatever comes and goes...

    There's a difference between being open to an idea and believing and acting on it.

    On 16/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Dino D said:

    if i sleep, other people still live... nondualist somehow say that this is not true...

    Strawman argument. Few nondualists would say this.

    as for the paragraph below that one, what the fuck? Its pretty nonsensical rambling

    On 16/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Dino D said:

    .. why cant I feel you if we are all one, if we are all one, how that i can only feel my shit and not one more  shit of other persons... i should at least be able to feel/experience 100 or a million humans if not all of existence...

    A whirlpool on one side of the world cannot interact with a wave on the other side of the world even though they are aspects of one ocean.

    On 16/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Dino D said:

    Why i dont experience anything when I sleep, im in coma, dead or before I was born?

    There's a difference between 'your' limited human experience and the you which is the entire universe. Also, you do experience stuff when you sleep and people sometimes recall past lives.

    On 16/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Dino D said:

    why most gurus charge and make money, and take drugs ond somehow fuck up their lives?

    Why can't a guru charge money? After all, he needs to survive and spread his teachings, all of which require money. As for drugs, most gurus dont take drugs, and even if they did, what's wrong with that? As for fucking up their lives, that's just complete bs.

    On 16/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Dino D said:

    Why non duality leads to expositional more searching and suffering that never ends?  you see how leo is drifting... he is not a person who got it, who is so happy peacfull, who does not search, who emits love, who makes wonders and soo on... just an everexpeding deeper never ending searcher with more and more task complexity and so on...

    1. Reality is infinitely complex

    2. Leo is pretty different from most teachers

    On 16/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Dino D said:

    why does morality go down in this path, and sins get relativized...

    Because it's a mental construct

    On 16/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Dino D said:

    Why does the truth can only bee attined with tricky methods (drugs, meditating and so on) and why is it not always obvious (so its a mind state attained with touching special parts of the brain)

    Because are minds are optimized for survival, not truth. These methods remove the deception mechanisms.

    On 16/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Dino D said:

    when you see the wall, the wall is there... when you get that 2+2 is 4... it not that you tomorrow can not get or see it... but a non dual realization is an induced experience, and later you make just ideas of it without any prove or test that those ides should be capable of passing...

    huh? This argument is incoherent

    On 16/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Dino D said:

    I thought non duality was the answer for long time, but it literary does not give answers...

    Because there is no answer. You are trying to grasp nonduality with the conceptual mind which is a mistake. How do you think the conceptual mind understand things?

    On 16/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Dino D said:

    So i Dont belive you can in any way prove to me that you and are the same  consciousness, or being or mind or the same nothing or whatever...

    who is this 'you' and 'me' you are referring to? 'you' is a distinction that the mind makes to separate an aspect of consciousness from the rest. It's a mental construct.

    As for the other arguments, I cba