karltiboleng

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About karltiboleng

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  1. I will attempt once more to get through to you - you cannot force ideologies unto others. This is the problem with religion, feminism, the war on terrorism, the war on drugs, any form of identity politics in general. It it a valiant effort that you've gone vegan, I really respect that. But this is something that people will have to come to realise on their own. Proselytizing just leads to backlash and hate. It is true, no doubt, that many people try to justify their laziness by citing half baked claims about the pitfalls of veganism. But let them be. Debates can be healthy but you're definitely doing it in an unhealthy manner. Especially posting cartoons that ridicule people who don't agree with you, now that's just silly. Really consider opposing viewpoints and try to understand where they come from.
  2. @Scholar Please, take a step back and read your posts carefully. Turning inwards leads to the most growth
  3. Perfectly put, thank you.
  4. Oh dear... I am not trying to justify any behavior. I am trying to point out the pitfalls of green ideology. This is essential when approaching this topic, as we need to be aware of our underlying assumptions we put forth a position. Why do we identify more with animals than other beings? Because they walk like us? They shed blood like us? When we identify with animals and not other beings, we are expanding our sense of self but not for the entire cosmos. Notice this at play here. It is a scary notion to think about, I know. This is the most emotionally laborious work one can do. Our sense of reality and life itself is at stake here. But this needs to be addressed when going into this work. "Oh, I would be singing a different tune when my baby was killed!" Yes, of course. I am aware of this survival bias. But it is what it is, a bias. Without survival life cannot function. Transcending survival is pretty much one of the hardest things to do. We are all agents in God's divine plan, all sentient beings included.
  5. Yeah definitely it can be used dangerously, in the wrong context. But it still holds that the view of "a bad father" is relative. Who is it bad for? The wife and children. Why? Because they feel pain and this undermines their survival. Is this bad in their view? Probably. But not absolutely. Is it bad in the eyes of the father? He probably, in some twisted way, believes that beating his wife and kids will teach them valuable lessons. If one advocates for a position, this doesn't necessarily mean that they haven't considered opposing views (although most probably don't...)
  6. @Scholar Sure, get a third party's view. I already at length described why your position is untenable but you are too closed off to see that. I emphasise that I am not dismissing the position of veganism, but I do not dismiss opposing views either.
  7. @Scholar I dont wish to debate with you anymore.... you are just rehashing the same points over and over again. Try to see your own shortcomings, and I will do the same. Peace
  8. On that topic of going beyond veganism and into the realms of spirituality (and epistemology, for that matter), you are still being dogmatic. Yes, this goes for pretty much everything, and yes, that includes incredibly evil issues such as human trafficking, holocaust, slavery, etc. I know it sounds radical, but all ideology is ultimately untenable. The pre/trans fallacy is also prevalent here. You have to appreciate your underlying assumptions. Why is eating animals bad? Why is eating insects not bad? Why are eating vegetables not bad? Slavery was completely acceptable as a social system just awhile back. Today's system is just slavery manifested in different ways. I emphasise that I do not advocate factory farming in any way.
  9. Yes definitely! I think the lab grown meat market has huge potential. I never dismissed these possibilities. But you adopt the view that eating animals is inherently bad. Yes it's less sustainable than insects, but I feel that you are being ideological about this position. Are you not being moralistic here?
  10. Hello! I would just like to add my two cents to this topic. I see so many senseless strawman arguments in this thread it's ridiculous. Yes it's good to be vegan, but when only an individual adopts this position it doesn't really change much. It has to be a collective effort. There is plenty of evidence to show that society is slowly moving towards this direction, which is good, but I find it ultimately unsustainable. What we want to strive for is sustainable, conscious animal farming. But it takes a long time before we're there, society is still heavily reliant on factory farming for profit. I think that first we will go through a phase of increased socialism, as we can see. But then after some time we will see the limits of that and how unsustainable it is, then slowly society will inch towards a more yellow paradigm. We need to stop demonizing spiral dynamics, I think it happens on a subconscious level "oh this guy is so blue / orange / green, I'm so much more developed than him I'm better than him". This is a huge, huge trap and a manifestation of spiritual ego. If you adopt this very sort of thinking you are not embodying tier 2 values. Also, we need to stop using spiritual terminology to demonize others. And stop idolizing Leo and start thinking independently about his work. Spread love!
  11. One of the biggest traps of this work - criticizing and developing a spiritual ego...
  12. "Ideology isn't about the content, looking from a meta-perspective, it's how you hold the beliefs and the emotional attachment and building an identity out of it." Exactly. I think what many people fail to understand is that you can advocate for a position and not be ideological and attached to it. Basically, always be open minded and always remember that all perspectives are partial truths.