Mannyb

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Posts posted by Mannyb

  1. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Shin said:

    Yeah but careful about that.

    Right now it's probably not your experience, and the experience of jail while being asleep isn't that great.

    Unless you like to get analized ofc.

    I’m experiencing bliss right now tbh ?? After the realization of who I am, the old habits of the separate self just progressively appear less and less. What does happen from “time to time”, is the release of trauma that was stored in the body, although I know I am not the body. 

  4. Posted

    On 4/8/2021 at 6:12 PM, Forestluv said:

    For example, there are lots of people that don't believe in germ theory. They don't believe germs actually exist.

    What @Forestluv said here is just not true. Let's have fun and analyze this assumption of his.

     

    His argument is the following: 

     

    1. "Lots of people (instead of using the word many, which is suspicious for an academic to not use correct grammar...) don't believe in germ theory".

    So far so good, that part is true, I don't subscribe to it either.

    By the way, it's not just "lot's of people" (which implies (yes it does smartass @Forestluv, don't play silly with me ^^) that these are just "average" people), most so-called germ theory "deniers" are as a matter of fact researchers and successful natural and holistic health practitioners.

     

    2. "They (lots of people that don't believe in germ theory) don't believe germs actually exist". That is just false, it's spreading misinformation and undermining these "so-called" GTD (germ theory "deniers"), which is another way of calling them pseudo scientists and conspiracy theorists. 

    Here is a description of Terrain Theory, the theory the vast majority of informed GTDs ACTUALLY subscribe to:  

    Terrain theory says germs can’t cause infection unless conditions within a body encourage their growth and reproduction. If the body is a poor host, invading germs cause illness. This is why in epidemics, some recover, some die, some only have minor symptoms & some never become ill at all.

    In case anyone is interested in reading more about it: https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/truth-about-germ-theory

    Or am I wrong? @Village @DrewNows @TrynaBeTurquoise @ppfeiff GTDs assemble xP 

  7. Posted · Edited by Mannyb

    @Forestluv Just to let you know there’s no point in talking to you, you’ll always reframe everything to your advantage, you must be fun at parties... ? 

    You very well know that I’m asking for what you call the positive and negative elements of the vaccine, yet like a child you choose to play games... how stage yellow of you...

    Nice job trying to suck me into your mind games but I’m out. Peace ✌? 

     

  9. Posted

    40 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

    Relativity, spectrums and integration is more advanced that binary views because relativity, spectrums and integration includes binary constructs. Any system that includes basic elements AND more elements is more advanced than the more basic system. For example, a map of Europe is more advanced than a map of France because the map of Europe contains the map of France and more. 

    In terms of SD, stage yellow is more advanced than stage blue because stage yellow includes stage blue and more. 

    If a mind can't see this is indicative of "over the head". If it wasn't going over the head, you would be getting it and not restrict yourself to binary constructs. You would be integrating in relativity, spectrums and multi-perspectival elements Yet from a growth perspective, this is good news. It opens up new dimensions of growth potential. When I listen to Harry Mack, I realize much of what he says is over my head, yet that is good news! Because it is a resource that allows expansion. 

    Again, you are misinterpreting what I'm saying. That is not why I lack patience in certain areas. It's going over the head. 

    I lose patience when someone is using simple, contracted, personalized, competitive constructs with Dunning-Kruger mixed in. 

    If someone says "Can we engage at the basics and work our way up? Can we start with binary constructs and then you gradually add in more elements of spectrums, relativity, multi-perspectives and integration?" - I would be like "sure, let's go for it. Check it out. We can start of by creating a simple binary construct that the pharmaceutical industry is unethical and manipulates the public for financial gain". Then we could advance by building upon that simple binary construct. . . We could start to add in new elements of spectrums and mosaics. I tried to reach out to you multiple times by stating unethical manipulative behavior of the pharmaceutical industry and build upon it. Yet you've shown no interest in doing so.

    A "normal" conversation for you is very different than a "normal" conversation for me. Yet this is an aspect of relativity you are not grasping. Over and over I keep saying that there is value in what you are saying. Over and over, I've stressed positive things in what you are saying and say let's build upon that. Yet you don't catch that and keep defaulting to "me vs you".

    How many times do I need to agree with elements of view until you realize that I agree with elements of your view? And you stop creating "my view vs your view"? Do I need to state 100 times that the pharmaceutical industry has elements of unethical and manipulative behavior? Do I need to list 100 forms of unethical behavior of the pharmaceutical industry for you to realize that I don't have the opposite view as you? After trying this 5-6 times and you don't see it, I lose patience. 

    From the perspective of an ego, yes. Yet it's not that simple. As a basic example, I dog can lose patience, yet has no ego.

    Loss of patience can arise without an ego, just like hunger, pain, curiosity etc. can arise without an ego. Adding in ego is an extra element added in. It's totally fine to add in that element, yet there are many dimensions to explore without that element.

    I was talking about your ego’s perspective obviously ? I know it could also be anything in a pre egoic state as well and it’s “nice” of you again to assume that I don’t know that, yet I never said I didn’t. 
    All of your arguments here are predicated upon assumptions.

    There is no normal for you or normal for me, there’s just normal or abnormal aka special, unique, whatever..

    A normal conversation is simply I ask you reply for example, that’s normal. If I say give me a reason you either give me one or not, simple.
    An abnormal conversation is I say give me a reason and you start deconstructing every single term I use and start making assumption after assumption.

    Seems you’re stuck in your precious stage yellow, maybe you could ascend to turquoise and realize what I’m saying might be going over your head. I could also play games you see, yet I’m not here to play games.

    So I’m gonna make it simple for ya; either give me a reason to get the vaccine I haven’t heard of or let’s just agree to disagree and stop it there.

  10. Posted

    6 minutes ago, Consept said:

    Great!! So i think for you it would be better to accept that no one on here or anywhere else will come up with a reason that will convince you, then you can conclude your investigation. Maybe just check every now and then if new reasons pop up, but in general you dont need to spend too much time on it 

    Why wouldn't they? I'm open to new ideas... Yet I do get your point, I already don't spend much time in here (echo chamber vibes sometimes, which is natural for a forum of like minded people). 

  11. Posted · Edited by Mannyb

    @Forestluv From my perspective you just tried to "school" me from the beginning, and failed to do so (although you probably think I can't get it, funny).

    You think that what you say is going over my head as though what you say is so "advanced" but that's just an assumption on your part (and if that were true maybe you're just a lousy professor lol). 

    You keep trying to analyze my words, without addressing me directly as though I'm some kind of lab rat of your, that's precisely why I don't trust your type (pseudo intellectual academics).

    And why do you keep talking about what you're doing on your free time lol There's other threads for that I guess xP

    You think you don't have the patience to have a normal conversation with me but what you really are is pure patience itself, only the ego can ever be impatient.

  13. Posted · Edited by Mannyb

    7 minutes ago, Consept said:

    No bro im not saying that because you dont agree with the CDC youre not open or youre completely right. I said that if you dont deem any reasons to be valid (which is what you confirmed) then there are only two possibilities, one is that you are completely right and there are no valid reasons or two there are valid reasons but you are not open to them. You rejected the idea that youre not open so therefore the only other option is that youre completely right. The CDC list was used to cover multiple reasons that you would hear or that might be brought up in the thread. 

    Listen to yourself, why do you say that? Let me make it simpler for ya (I won't give up on you just yet):

    1. I don't deem any of your reasons valid

    2. I'm not completely right (who has ever been?)

    3. There might be valid reasons and I'm open to them, hence why I'm here.

    4. Why do you want to limit my options to be either completely right or not open? Why can't you accept my position?

    5. Cmon Biyi :P Don't be silly. Why are you being silly? hehe

  14. Posted

    @Forestluv How do you know a simple conversation won't work? You don't, unless you can predict the future.

    It seems that you're quite stuck on making mental models and hypotheses of what your mind interacts with, on this forum at least. That's my guess of your lens, maybe I'm wrong.

    To be honest I'm not gonna read all that mentation.

    If you wish for me to read what you have to say, you can give me what you deem to be a reason good enough and at the same time complex enough so that someone like Elon might have omitted in his own reasoning, that's what I came for. Otherwise, I'm not interested and that's my right. Sorry for not reading all you wrote (you probably intended for me to read it lol), might interest others tho. 

  15. Posted · Edited by Mannyb

    17 minutes ago, Consept said:

    Yeah i suspected as much, no worries glad we sorted it out. The list was from the CDC btw so i couldnt give you better reasons than that and if you think theyre all wrong I dont think id be able to convince you otherwise. As i said either youre either completely right or youre not open, so im taking it as you consider yourself the former, so well done on that. 

    Why are you saying that because I don't agree with the CDC that means I'm either not open or I am completely right? How does that make sense? O.o It's fine that you're not able to convince me or Elon otherwise, but why do you have to make such conclusions on what we consider ourselves to be? It's the second time I try to explain how your reasoning doesn't make sense, therefore I guess you won't get it lol So let's just agree to disagree on this one.

    PS: although your tone isn't the most loving one (perhaps unintentionally), I want to let you know that I love you anyway <3

  17. Posted · Edited by Mannyb

    13 minutes ago, Consept said:

    Well lets just play a game of perspectives, if you had to make the argument for the vaccine, what would your reasons be? Im asking because there have been several reasons that you havent deemed good enough, so its important to know what could be a good reason. If you yourself cant think of any then its either there arent any, in which case, well done you win, or that youre not open to any, one of the two

    I'm sorry but I don't want to play games, I don't have to make that argument and I don't want to :) I hope you can understand, accept, and love that.  I'm just asking for the perspective of those who are taking the vaccine, that's it. It's my right not to deem some reasons good for me, you have the same right. That doesn't mean that I'm not open to other reasons, now does it? A good reason for you might not be one for me and vice versa, yet I'm open to anyone with a reason they deem good for themselves <3

    Now I won't judge your attempt at logic. It's true, I can't think of a good reason for myself, yet that doesn't mean there aren't any nor that I'm not open.  I'm open to hearing what you deem a good reason, I'm sure there might be a reason I could deem good myself, hence why I'm asking ^^

  18. Posted · Edited by Mannyb

    7 minutes ago, Consept said:

    Well why dont we do it this way, what would you consider good reasons to take a vaccine that helps stop the spread of a contagious disease? 

    I'm asking because I don't have any yet, so you tell me. I have also not found good reasons to take a vaccine that helps stop the spread of a contagious disease called the flu. I'm not here to argue man, I just asked for reasons.

    If your reason is to help stop spreading the disease, well, thank you for your contribution although everyone has heard that reason already, and yet many chose not to get vaccinated. Therefore a good reason for some people isn't a good reason for others.

  19. Posted · Edited by Mannyb

    11 minutes ago, Space Coyote said:

    And I'm still waiting for you to admit you've fallen  for the halo effect, its ok it happens to everyone. It is human nature. The bigger sin is refusing to admit it.  You again literally asked how your logic is faulty and I pointed out it is a textbook example of the halo effect.

    Your "He is a billionaire...." argument is like saying: "Why are you asking Gordon Ramsey for advice on how to make a Beef Wellgiotion, you should ask Elon Musk he is much richer with much more access to the best ingredients ".I don't care what Elon Musk's opinion is on infectious disease is for the same reasons I don't care. what Anthony Fauci opinion on space exploration is. Elon Musk is swerving wildly out of his lane if he is talking about infectious disease as would Fauci if he started talking about space exploration. It is illogical to care what Elon Musk thinks about a topic outside his domain of mastery. It only seems logical due to the halo effect.

    Note I bolded, underlined, and italics illogical (twice now). I never said to you whether I believe Elon or you are wrong; faulty logic (which is what you asked) does not mean your conclusions are wrong nor does perfect logic means your conclusion are right; believing these would also be illogical.  Assuming Elon Musk is a 100% right  "billionaire who put a car in space and has access to a lot of privileged info" is still a textbook  halo effect. 

    You're just assuming that I'm assuming Elon Musk is a 100% right when I never said nor implied anything of the sort. Look my fellow lovely human being, I'm just asking why would someone like him make such a decision. There's nothing faulty in such a question. Tell me, how is it illogical to think that Elon might know something we don't? He has more access to all sorts of professionals in the area of vaccines than almost most people on earth, except perhaps Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, Putin (you know, powerful people with the best contacts in most cutting edge fields). 

    You want me to admit to something I haven't fallen for. If Elon Musk turns vegan tomorrow, it doesn't mean I'd do it, it just means I'd probably look into it out of curiosity and wonder about what he may know that I don't, knowing that such an individual has access to privileged information we could only dream of as of now. Do you get it now? <3  It's completely fine if you didn't initially understand my point, you don't even have to admit it.

  20. Posted · Edited by Mannyb

    28 minutes ago, Consept said:

    OK so what do you want out of this thread, what would helpful information look like to you?

    All I wanted were good reasons for a healthy individual to get the vaccine. The type of reason that could convince someone like Elon Musk for example.

    And no @Forestluv, that doesn't mean that I would just discard what doesn't suit my worldview. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother asking, like many people I know. So let's just start from scratch, you seem to enjoy imagining scenarios, imagine I'm Elon Musk and convince me, that's it :)

  21. Posted

    3 minutes ago, Consept said:

    @Forestluv Excellent breakdown my friend, if anyone is trying to genuinely open their mind and realise what it is to take on new perspectives they should definitely read that. 

    I would just add for @Mannyb that these arguments seemingly against you are not necessarily saying youre wrong, its more theyre just looking at the whole picture and trying to let you know that theres more to the topic than you realise. If you think about it taking any strong position doesnt really make sense, right and wrong opinions are arbitrary, meaning that there can be some truth in everything but nothing is 100% true. So when you take a strong position what youre doing basically is dismissing anything that isnt that position and creating a polarity of right and wrong. 

    Many people have this type of thinking, religion, politics, social issues, favourite music whatever. if you notice a lot of the way youve framed your arguments could be interchanged with another completely different position. For example a religious person might say "Why is it wrong to trust in people's track record and to question the same record of these big institutions who have all come out with shitty “research” for decades?" when talking about trusting religious leaders track records and questioning atheists or scientists. What makes the research 'shitty' is that it goes against the core belief of the religious person. However a meta view could see where religion makes sense but also why it doesnt make sense to believe it in a fundamental way. 

    Why make an assumption yet again, can’t you just ask? Which strong position have I taken? I’m just saying that I’m not getting vaccinated for now because I’m healthy and I’m not the only one doing so (Elon Musk is taking the same position for example). How is that a strong position? I’m after all here to open myself to different perspectives, haven’t yet heard any convincing arguments.
     

    Assuming again here with what makes something shitty, ok.
    What makes anything shitty is that it isn’t life affirmative (it doesn’t work and has produced harm, like Pfizer’s criminal history for example) nothing to do with core beliefs.

  22. Posted · Edited by Mannyb

    @Forestluv Sure bud. You can rationalize your example all you want it still doesn’t make sense.
    Here’s an example like yours, try this: would you board an experimental plane with a new type of engine that is still in testing, has never successfully flown, and that every time they tried it in the past it crashed? That’s what happened with covid vaccines.

    Why don’t you start by analyzing your own mind first? Might learn a thing or two, yet your defense mechanisms won’t allow that... You seem to think you’re above all that since you’re in academia, years of experience etc... And yet I should listen to you instead of other scientists in the field for what reason exactly? Specially when they don’t try to assume how certain people’s mind work without knowing...  

    See how easily your argument can be turned around? You seem to be the perfect example of the arrogance of academia with your claim of having transcended other perspectives (why do you need to claim it if you’ve done so?, maybe to reinforce that idea and thus your ego). 

    This is the longest assumption I’ve read on my mind, yet you don’t even know me. Instead of imagining what you could tell me and how I’d (potentially,  in your mind) react, just tell me straight without anticipating my reaction. I’m not offended tho, but your style of response is condescending to a new level I’ve rarely seen.

    Funny you need to explain yourself in such length ? You could just answer directly but that’s not what you’re interested in doing, wonder why...

    Why can’t we have a normal conversation where you’d simply ask for example: hey man I love you and I see where you seem to be at, and think I can help you in a (non condescending) loving way, what do you consider helpful information my brother? Instead you just start assuming and analyzing how i chose to express myself.

     

  25. Posted · Edited by Mannyb

    7 hours ago, Space Coyote said:

    *SIgh* We might as well rename the halo effect the Elon Musk effect.

    Yeah sure, instead of thinking independently, doing your research on the topic, and questioning the narrative, you just make fun of whom ever thinks differently? 
    Before taking a side, try the opposite perspective, you might learn something.
    Here the case for taking the vaccine is advocated by society at large and the institutions of the powers that be (providing the best arguments for the vaccine), now what about a case against it for some people? It’s more difficult because you have to research but you can still do it. Or maybe you’re under your Society’s Halo effect.

    Or maybe Elon is just crazy and you are the sane one... Still you haven’t answered. Why do you think you know better than Elon?