cypres

@Nahm If you're just using me as a springboard for your own thoughts, sure.

@Nahm If you mean "punish" as "act against the best interest of" then I agree there is no scenario someone can "punish" themselves. Psychologically though, we aren't one. We are fragmented. The part who punishes is usually the one who wants belonging with others, and the punished is the part that the first one sees as the obstacle to that belonging.

@Nahm Are you just adding this layer to the conversation being held, or do you mean to disagree to something I said?

@Etherial Cat Happy you enjoyed it I felt like it tanked the conversation, haha

At one level but at another level someone can punish themselves, which is what I believe the poster means to talk about. I know for a fact that this validation is a reason some people have for self-harm, so yes. Of course self-harm isn't desired and if there are good alternatives people choose those. In some cases it is reasonable, because sometimes it's the alternative to suicide or going insane.

@Nahm Of course there is. As mentioned someone can experience that when they punish themselves they feel purified and safe. Another reason is being so invalidated in one's emotional pain and seeing a mark or blood or bruise makes you feel validated and that the pain is real.

And at the 15 minute mark, there's an excellent point about how disconnection looks for spiritual men. How many times haven't you read "pain is an illusion" on here? It gets applied even when it's not relevant. In conversations where people are sharing something painful, they get slapped with PAIN IS NOT REAL gl

As a woman?

@Salvijus What happens when you're soft and gentle is that you disarm people, you endear people, other people want to protect and help you, you get to feel like a good person and like you are better than x other person or group (men for example). My point is just that it's an excellent ego strategy. Not to say someone can't be sincerely gentle. But there is as much shadow in the "gentleness" for women. This video does a good job of explaining it as women's equivalent to men's disconnection, and why:

@Salvijus and what happens when you are soft and gentle? Better ego strategy to be appealing rather than overpowering, when you would lose 99 % of the time through this strategy. The higher side of the male nature you describe is protectiveness, honor, strength, containment, etc. The lower side of the female nature you mention is manipulation, giving with strings attached, pride, insidiousness, gaslighting.

I believe the issue comes from applying timeless truths to the material level of the world. "Having memories" has the premise of there being a brain. In the physical world there is such a thing as memories and so the argument isn't invalid for that reason.

I'm interested in how to get from 0/∞ to 1. What is the "step" between everything/nothing and the first manifestation, the awareness of I/one? How did I-awareness arise from infinite-awareness?

I want to say something, that often what people are lacking and needing to move on from a victim state is to be validated and heard, and experience that someone cares that they were hurt. Solving a chronic issue isn't always about punishing yourself further, sometimes kindnesses are what will allow you to progress. And often people who try to "help" by emphasizing how the person is wrong for feeling how they feel, just want to highlight the contrast to themselves. In this case the person who is helping has not integrated the part of themselves that's similar to the person who is asking. They have not included the other person as part of themselves. They are not speaking from oneness, but from separation (often while associating themselves with oneness and other higher virtues). Often the topic-starter complies and turns against the part of themselves who comes with the issue (triangulating against the 'ego' part of themselves). Outwardly resolution has been achieved, but inwardly there is more fragmentation and distrust. This of course applies to many other issues than victim states, it's just the example I'm using. A victim state is different from a victim mindset, which is chronic. The point I'm trying to make is mainly about signalling or other ego-services under the guise of helping or teaching. I'm not trying to exempt myself from this either. I haven't included what I'm talking about as part of myself. I become angry when I see what I'm describing and in the short term I care more about pointing out what I see as harmful. This is also speaking from separation. It's also ego-serving. Feel free to help me expand my ego to integrate what I'm demonizing (all ego is the same as no ego - I'm going the big ego route ).

I have a hard time with routines, and I'm making this to remain myself to hold myself accountable. I am resisting certain negative emotions all day long. I'm pretty good at feeling grief, as in I don't have any resistance to it. I just feel it until I go through it. I'm terrible at feeling hopelessness, powerlessness and pointlessness. I also have severe OCD, and I recently have been able to sit in it and process sometimes. I will set a timer for 30 mins every day for this.

This is an exercise to become aware of and integrate polarities within. You can do it whenever someone is causing a negative emotion in you. My one-minute summary: 1) Take note of something you judge, for example bad taste. 2) Think about how people with bad taste may see you. For example they see you as a snob. 3) Ask yourself what the worst case scenario for a person with bad taste. Maybe you find the outcome that sticks the most out to you is that lacking discernment may lead to mixing with the wrong thing and become 'sullied'. 4) Now ask what are the worst case scenario of the traits they see in you. For example the worst case scenario of being a snob could be alienating people. 5) Then ask what it would look like to have a microdose of bad taste. Maybe it looks like engaging and participating in more of what the world has to offer. Your answers to 3 are what you are deeply afraid of. Your answers to 4, are what you risk becoming in an effort to avoid 3. Your answers to 5 are what you need to embrace to become less polarized and more integrated. link