What is Enlightenment, and what is not Enlightenment

[James123]

 

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

That's only the first step to be out of the mind. I'm in that state all time but it's still closed. It's the state for example of a kid, the recognition of what you are, of what this experience is, beyond the mind. But it's much more beyond this experience, beyond the human. 

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

[Breakingthewall]

For example, Sadhguru gives a good example of what enlightenment is when he explains that he sat under a tree for 17 days, drooling, being fed and washed by his family, in a completely non-human state, with his being expanded to infinity. this is true? maybe it is. but sadhguru is now not in that state, which despite being of maximum transparency is still limited, since the only unlimited state is being dead.

Only that is enlightenment, the rest are degrees of transparency, and what the guy in the video says is a joke, it shows enormous ignorance, even if he is a famous guy

[James123]

29 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

For example, Sadhguru gives a good example of what enlightenment is when he explains that he sat under a tree for 17 days, drooling, being fed and washed by his family, in a completely non-human state, with his being expanded to infinity. this is true? maybe it is. but sadhguru is now not in that state, which despite being of maximum transparency is still limited, since the only unlimited state is being dead.

Only that is enlightenment, the rest are degrees of transparency, and what the guy in the video says is a joke, it shows enormous ignorance, even if he is a famous guy

https://blog.buddhagroove.com/zen-ox-herding-an-overview-of-the-10-stages-of-enlightenment/

 

[James123]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's only the first step to be out of the mind. I'm in that state all time but it's still closed. It's the state for example of a kid, the recognition of what you are, of what this experience is, beyond the mind. But it's much more beyond this experience, beyond the human. 

 

 

 

 

[Davino]

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

he explains that he sat under a tree for 17 days, drooling, being fed and washed by his family, in a completely non-human state, with his being expanded to infinity. this is true? maybe it is. but sadhguru is now not in that state, which despite being of maximum transparency is still limited, since the only unlimited state is being dead.

I liked how he said: I once climbed that mountain but I never came back down

It is a good story, it felt genuine when he explained it, but there is much more to the game

[Breakingthewall]

28 minutes ago, James123 said:

 

 

 

 

Well, after listening raslton, I could say without a doubt that he is totally lost. Incredible, no one understands. 

This guy hasn't even touched living infinity, he lives inside a bubble, he hasn't broken it, he doesn't even remotely understand what reality is. what he says is a complete joke, the same as spira. 

Edited February 14 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Davino said:

but there is much more to the game

Maybe but we don't know what was in his mind. I'm sure that many people in the world have got the maximum human opening that is possible. Like Ramakrishna, maharshi, etc. but it's difficult to say because the real open states are difficult to communicate, because when you aren't anymore in that state,you can't think them. What I'm totally sure is that raslton is limited, without a doubt. 

Edited February 14 by Breakingthewall

[Hojo]

@Breakingthewall but leo said enlightenment is when you aren't drooling and shitting on yourself.

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Breakingthewall but leo said enlightenment is when you aren't drooling and shitting on yourself.

I don't know what enlightenment is and no one does, what there is is levels of transparency to what reality is. and a high level of transparency maintained over time will probably make you drool and shit yourself. I don't know since I have achieved openings of minutes, enough to see what there is. Living infinity is not a state of calm. A meditative state in which you expand your being in the void and perceive yourself as life without limit is one thing, it is very good and brings you great happiness, but a real openness is another thing. It's something like opening the blinds a little and behind it there is a supernova. you can intuit it, but not look at it completely. It is beyond your configuration as a human, or at least I think so, but I will continue to delve deeper until my bubble of existence disappears, so let's see. Nothing else could be remotely compared 

[Davino]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Maybe but we don't know what was in his mind.

I don't know about you but I can experientally feel it. I have been training for years. It is called darshan and is a meditation I'm very familiar with, even science supports it and calls it mirroring neurons. The point is I can see someone behave for a few minutes in video and get a pretty accurate picture of where they are at. What usually happens is that you can see better down than up in levels, but still the signal to noise ratio can get good enough with years of practice. This direct experiential recognition is simultaneously mapped with models of both personal devolpment, awakening and facets of awakening.

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'm sure that many people in the world have got the maximum human opening that is possible.

The word maximum makes me cringe in the sentence but I do agree. In my obsessive study of saints and mystics of all history I have been surprised to found more people that really had the "ultimate" glimpse more than what I expected. But here we get the difference between states and stages of Awakening from Ken Wilber which I think is central to understanding this topic.

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What I'm totally sure is that raslton is limited, without a doubt. 

He does have some serious blind spots, yet he also is more accurate in departments where most gurus have blind spots. Ideology and body awareness come to mind for example.

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Davino said:

don't know about you but I can experientally feel it. I have been training for years. It is called darshan and is a meditation I'm very familiar with, even science supports it and calls it mirroring neurons.

Yes, that's true but the problem is that It's just that we don't know what's possible until we experience it, so you may see Maharshi's beatific expression meditating and feel that he is a guy who has achieved total openness, but maybe this is absolutely false and you don't even remotely know that it is a full opening. It's the problem with spirituality, that you can only judge backwards, not forwards, since you don't know what's there, not even remotely. So someone like Ralston is convinced that he is enlightened until one day maybe a real opening occurs and he says...wtf. like happened to Leo, for example, if im not wrong 

Another interpretation is that raslton is enlightened, but enlightenment is a limited state. Just remove all the falsehood of the mind and be empty, pure life without limit. Great, but there is more. 

Edited February 14 by Breakingthewall

[Davino]

@Breakingthewall Maybe there is no end. Maybe we can always get more rabbits of the hat

I like this poem:

Quote

"Traveler, your footprints
are the only road, nothing else.
Traveler, there is no road;
you make your own path as you walk.
As you walk, you make your own road,
and when you look back
you see the path
you will never travel again.
Traveler, there is no road;
only a ship’s wake on the sea."

Antonio Machado

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Davino said:

@Breakingthewall Maybe there is no end. Maybe we can always get more rabbits of the hat

I like this poem:

 

I'm not sure, we will see. I thought that there could be nothing but living emptiness without limit, since it is unlimited and alive, without stain of mind, purity. This is my true nature, enlightenment. But one day a door opened and what manifested was something unimaginable, the true power of existence. Better not to be too sure with what we know or about what reality is

[Osaid]

Enlightenment is not:

- A logical or metaphysical conclusion, like "this does not exist, therefore I am this."
- Something that is "higher" or "lower"
- Dualistic
- A specific state or experience or quality
- A logical or intellectual puzzle to solve
- Philosophy
- Something which becomes deeper or refined over time

Enlightenment is:
- One, singular, ever-present, undivided, etc.
- Being aware, not being aware of logic
         > As an example, logic is not awareness, however, you can be aware of logic.
         > Enlightenment is the same as being aware of sound, touch, taste, etc. It is experiential, not a logical formula.
- The immediate relinquishing of all metaphysical questions about experience, reality, and yourself.
- Subtractive. Undefined. Not a thing. "Nothing." 
- Becoming aware (not through logic, but by looking at logic) that there is no "you", or any "things", at all.
- Outside of past and future
- What you always are, even if you imagine otherwise

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Osaid said:

The immediate relinquishing of all metaphysical questions about experience, reality, and yourself.

Have you experienced that ?

[Osaid]

Just now, Someone here said:

Have you experienced that ?

Yes, I am enlightened.

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Osaid said:

Yes, I am enlightened.

What should I ask you ?

[Osaid]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What should I ask you ?

Up to you.

I already gave you solid heartfelt advice before, I think you get stuck in your head a lot, and you seem to kind of enjoy that. I think you would just turn my answers into more mental masturbation. It's fine, but if I feel like my answer isn't gonna help you then I won't engage.

Edited February 15 by Osaid