Dear Leo, why are you quoting exclusively Islamic/Sufi sources on your blog?

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, HMD said:

He built his work on the works of Al-Ghazali, who was influenced by various other teachers like al halaj

Interesting. It is an unknown Islam. The image that those of us who do not live in Islamic countries have of Islam can imagine what it is: rigidity, chains for the soul, beings repressed, afraid of appearing as sinner don't doing Ramadan,  false and full of prohibition, fear of women, mental torture.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[HMD]

Yeah, that’s not a good place to find Sufis. They are more prevalent in the east. Persia was their home ground and they spread from there to the surrounding areas. 

[HMD]

@Breakingthewall Yeah, that's exactly what Wahabism is like for the most part. It lacks soul. They stripped away the soul from the religion. 

The problem is that Saudia is a Wahabist country, and because they have the most important holy sites (the two haram mosques), they get to represent the whole Islamic community. And it does not help that they are ridiculously rich. 

Now that Wahabist image is carried over to the world as the poster child of Islam, when in fact, it is but a subset and a manifestation of it. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by HMD

[Davino]

1 hour ago, HMD said:

And it fucks me up when I ask other Muslims about him; most of them tell me that reading Ibn al Arabi is dangerous and should be done with caution; you should rather stick with someone more casual. 

They don’t deny his teachings but have a stigma against him. He’s sort of like the psychedelics of the Muslim world. 

They must so. Too awake for most muslim, yet he awoke through islam and that's his flavour. His teachings and readings are profoundly permeated by islam; like intensely answering to you @Breakingthewall . He loved the path that worked for him and lead him to the realization of oneness with God and from that place he taught.

The same way with Meister Eckhart. They have the exact same feeling you described but for Christianity. This guy is into something real but just leave him aside and let's forget about him shall we?

Here are some quotes about him:

"The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love."

"Every creature is a word of God and is a book about God."

"God is at home; it is we who have gone for a walk."

"The knower and the known are one. Simple people imagine that they should see God as if he stood there and they here. This is not so. God and I, we are one in knowledge."

"There is a place in the soul that neither time, nor space, nor no created thing can touch."

"The outward work will never be puny if the inward work is great."

"If the only prayer you ever say in your entire life is thank you, it will be enough."

"What we plant in the soil of contemplation, we shall reap in the harvest of action."

"The now wherein God made the first man, and the now wherein the last man disappears, and the now I am speaking in and you in hearing, and the now that is everywhere, and nowhere— that now is not temporal, it is the nunc stans [standing now] of eternity."

"Truly, it is in the darkness that one finds the light, so when we are in sorrow, then this light is nearest of all to us."

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, HMD said:

Now that Wahabist image is carried over to the world as the poster child of Islam, when in fact, it is but a subset and a manifestation of it. 

But are most Muslims from the rigid side, or are there many open-minded? The Christians I know are quite closed-minded, with puritanical habits, quite repressed. What happens is that in the west there are really very few, I'd say that 80% or more of the people are indifferent to religion. It is all more a matter of social ethics, of moving towards a better society, not of obeying God. Spirituality in the West is minimal

Edited October 24, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Davino]

Most people just laugh at religion but have not even gone through the deep end of religion and came out the other way to keep awakening. This is mostly the case with Leo but most people just think they can shortcut, laugh and strawman true religious mysticism. I'm sorry to tell you that you are kidding yourself. This is a general comment not intended to anyone specifically but I wanted to say this from a long time ago...

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Davino said:

Most people just laugh at religion but have not even gone through the deep end of religion and came out the other way to keep awakening. This is mostly the case with Leo but most people just think they can shortcut, laugh and strawman true religious mysticism. I'm sorry to tell you that you are kidding yourself. This is a general comment not intended to anyone specifically but I wanted to say this from a long time ago...

Do you think that for a spiritual awakening you must have passed a religious stage? I don't know about other religions, but I would say that there are very few serious Christians who evolve into something more.

[HMD]

@Davino Yup, he seems like he got the essence. I have heard his name but never looked into him. I’ll have to read more about him 

[HMD]

@Breakingthewall

Most (not all) Muslims, especially in the West and Middle East (Saudia, Egypt, Jordan, etc) are Wahhabists type. But there is a prevailing population of open-minded Muslims in the east. 

Because as I mentioned earlier, society (especially the West) is at the peak stage of orange and materialism, inching towards stage green. Wahabism corresponds with that, the outward material objectives and the rigidity. So, as a consequence, many Muslims fall into this trap and stay stuck there. 

But on the other hand, those who have been warned against Wahhabism from the get-go (me for instance) have very open minds. But many of these types also fall into the traps of materialism unless they get serious about finding God and that is where the practices and rules come into play. To avoid all the bullshit. 

 

 

[PurpleTree]

How about this statement

mystics will make their religion “work” for them, wether it is islam, christianity, hinduism etc

because in certain times they have no choice than to claim a certain religion but they will go deep and closer to truth with anything

Edited October 24, 2023 by PurpleTree

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

How about this statement

mystics will make their religion “work” for them, wether it is islam, christianity, hinduism etc

because in certain times they have no choice than to claim a religion but they will go deep and closer to truth with anything

Sure, At that time you couldn't say: I am a mystic, I realize God, and Islam or Christianity is falsehood, or irrelevant, you have to appear as a religious person that believes the dominant religion. If not, nobody would listen to them, and probably They would be killed

8 minutes ago, HMD said:

unless they get serious about finding God

There are many Muslims thinking in that? Because in the west I just know those on this forum. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[HMD]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

How about this statement

mystics will make their religion “work” for them, wether it is islam, christianity, hinduism etc

because in certain times they have no choice than to claim a religion but they will go deep and closer to truth with anything

God created all the religions, right? Perhaps, as tools to get enlightened. Consciousness manifests in a form that enables other forms to awaken, like psychedelics. But not everyone knows how to use these tools and ends up shooting themselves in the foot. 

Similar to how some people commited suicide from watching the same videos (Leo’s) that helped others stay alive and transcend. 

[VictorB02]

@Husseinisdoingfine probably because the Sufi mystics were relatively advanced in their awakening. Almost all of Rumi and Kabir is about God Realization and Infinite Love. Mesiter Eckhart is the same, just from a different culture/time. Their Poetry is Incredibly profound.

Edited October 24, 2023 by VictorB02

[HMD]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

There are many Muslims thinking in that

Nope, not so many.

But yeah, a minority of them. It's obvious, most people don’t seek Truth. It’s something rare in itself, and when we limit the demographic to Muslims or Sufi Muslims, then the Truth seekers get less and less. 

The interest in Truth is not generated by Sufism, you have to have that drive yourself. 

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, HMD said:

God created all the religions, right? Perhaps, as tools to get enlightened. Consciousness manifests in a form that enables other forms to awaken, like psychedelics. But not everyone knows how to use these tools and ends up shooting themselves in the foot. 

I mean god also created pedophiles, pineapple pizza and scientology so there’s that.

 

[HMD]

@PurpleTree Well, these can also be used to expand your Love and sense of self. It's not the tool, but how you use it. 

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, HMD said:

@PurpleTree Well, these can also be used to expand your Love and sense of self. It's not the tool, but how you use it. 

Yea i think so.

i do hope to visit some of those colourful  “islamic architecture” mosques in iran sometime though. They look similar to the patterns that can be seen when taking certain psychedelics.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, HMD said:

these can also be used to expand your Love and sense of self

Usually they serve to scare people, lock them in closed belief systems, limit their ability to open up, make them hypocritical, false and twisted.

The problem is that the other option is the Western one, which pretends that death does not exist and that life is a playground, a timeline in which you try to have a good time and watch a lot of audiovisual content.

[HMD]

@PurpleTree I have those on my list as well, the ones in Turkey, too. Let me know if you actually visit. We can cross paths someday, perhaps watch the patterns on psychedelics 

[HMD]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Usually they serve to scare people, lock them in closed belief systems, limit their ability to open up, make them hypocritical, false and twisted.

@Breakingthewall That would be the other end of the stick. The brutal, heart-wrenching majority of people. 

And yeah, the alternative is bleak. Titillation and stimulation. But perhaps this is an essential step towards higher consciousness and we get to experience it. It's fascinating.