Posted January 18 (edited) 4 hours ago, Nivsch said: Is this can put enough pressure on hamas leaders to make them agree to free the hostages? Why dont they send their soldiers to fight? They have like 400.000 of them. Send them in the tunnels. Also surgical strikes and sending them in tunnels. I am sure some may die but better than 10.000 childreen dead. Also this way actually Hamas gets killed. Issue is that they would rather kill 10 kids than risk 1 of their soldiers lives which is a flawed inhumane position since that kid is a third party and equally innocent to the hostages that they are trying to save. But lets be real, they see those childreen as not innocent. Lets not kid ourselves here. Edited January 18 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 On 17/1/2024 at 1:50 AM, Lila9 said: They deserve what they do to others. Considering they got their land stolen and treated like shit for decades they act quite civilized I think. Switch your place with theirs for some months then talk. On 17/1/2024 at 1:50 AM, Lila9 said: If they would have been peaceful So you suggest they bow down to the thieves that took their land? Most people tend to fight hard for their land. Look at Ukraine. I do not see them bowing down to Russia. On 17/1/2024 at 1:50 AM, Lila9 said: And there could be a place for negociating two states solution or even one, The West Bank authority would be down for that if they got some normal terms. Meaning 50/50 split. On 17/1/2024 at 1:50 AM, Lila9 said: They didn't treated her 'so well', they treated her like they treat their hostages, did the bare minimum to keep her alive and God knows what she has seen there and experienced there, per her family, she still hasn't came fully to herself and doesn't speak or behave like she used to prior to the kidnapping. Israel has thousnads of kids in jails for arbitrary reasons. Why you get so emotional about 1 kid? Thousands are suffering in Israeli jails at the moment. Israel used to put kids in cages. I do not see Hamas do so to that girl. It is sad what happened to her but it is funny when Israeli cry when they have 1000x worse. On 17/1/2024 at 1:50 AM, Lila9 said: justifying a terrorist organization who started this war by commiting unbelievable crimes against humanity, deliberately with a great celebration. Remind me who has a genocide case at the moment against them? On 17/1/2024 at 1:50 AM, Lila9 said: don't prove that Israel deliberately and systematically targets civilians, like Hamas did and still do. There are countless articles from respectable sources saying so. If you want to ignore them that is on you. On 17/1/2024 at 1:50 AM, Lila9 said: The biggest enemy of the Palestinians is not Israel but Hamas and toxic doctrines alike. And by fighting Hamas Israel helping to the Palestinians, in the long term. If not Hamas, Gaza wouldn't be in the state it is now. This is a fact. The Hamas that your Neo Hitler Leader Benjamin has openly supported and founded? Interesting... On 17/1/2024 at 1:50 AM, Lila9 said: If you are ruled by such terrorist organization, you are doomed to high suffering, either by the terrorists and their policies directly against you, or indirectly by being at a vulnerable position and by being at their mercy when they are intiating fighting against others If Israel minded its own business rather than steal land people would not be stuck in Gaza in the first place. From what I saw on the 1947 borders all the areas near Gaza were Palestine. All the areas Hamas attacked are Palestine. I am sorry for what happened to the people there but they do not belong to live there. It is stolen land. You can make the case about Israel existing but the UN plan of 1947 did not include all the areas near Gaza, the same areas Hamas attacked as Israel. Funny when thieves start crying once they are faced with the consequences of their theft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) Front page of New York Times - Wed 17th January 2024 Edited January 18 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl/index.html Quote:- “The general range goes from about 25% who want to re-establish permanent communities, Jewish Israeli communities in Gaza, to somewhere in the 40% range,” she told CNN of several polls conducted in November and December. “That is not a small portion of Israeli society.” There is also an established track record in Israel of politicians pushing seemingly extremist ideas into mainstream conversation, and even into law. Netanyahu last year supported an effort started by a right-wing minister from his own Likud party to push through a law limiting the Supreme Court’s ability to scrutinize legislation, despite months of protests that roiled the nation. That proposal never had majority support, but the Knesset nonetheless passed it into law. The Supreme Court struck down the proposal earlier this month, saying it would deal a “severe and unprecedented blow to the core characteristics of the State of Israel as a democratic state.” “Ideas that often seem very extreme at a certain phase in Israel’s history can over time become increasingly normalized very incrementally – sometimes a little bit below the radar, not exactly hidden, but not exactly advertised,” Scheindlin said of Israeli policymaking. Diana Buttu, a Palestinian human rights lawyer who has served as an adviser to the Palestinian Authority, gives little credence to Netanyahu’s professed opposition to re-establishing settlements in Gaza. “As much as Netanyahu may say that he’s not going to do it, he will ultimately,” she told CNN. “Because we as Palestinians have long learned that they end up finding some sort of excuse – you know, the coalition needs to stay together, whatever. And Palestinians always pay the price for it.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 Gaza: Latest updates and analysis from Nora-Barrows Friedman and Ali Abunimah. Powerful insights and definitely worth a listen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) Great interview with Israels spokesman. A lot of push back on Israel’s strategy. Edited January 18 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 @kenway I gave Remy Abdul a really nice poem and he blocked me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 Before FA :" So happy, no complains, life's good " After FA :" 75 years, ethnic cleansing, genocide, open air prison, concentration camp, apartheid " Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) 49 minutes ago, jaylimix said: @kenway I gave Remy Abdul a really nice poem and he blocked me. This you? You’ve made good points before but how can people take you seriously when you’ve said you don’t care about dead Palestinian children? This forum has a thread enthusiastically trying to understand the Nazi mind and an ultra-Zionist on it lol. Trippy. Edited January 18 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 @zazen Yeah I'm pretty sure that's him. I saw the posts a few weeks back. I don't mind engaging with hardened Zionists, but I draw the line when it comes to school-shooter vibes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) @kenway I do not think it is worth sending here posts about Israeli daily barbarism. I think everyone here is fully aware of what is going on there and the pro Israelis here are fully in denial about Israeli's barbarism, they will not be convinced. I am quite disappointed that people that follow Leo's work are so biased but I guess when you have been brainwashed all your life to believe your country is good, nothing will convince you. Edited January 18 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 4 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: @kenway I do not think it is worth sending here posts about Israeli daily barbarism. I think everyone here is fully aware of what is going on there and the pro Israelis here are fully in denial about Israeli's barbarism, they will not be convinced. I am quite disappointed that people that follow Leo's work are so biased but I guess when you have been brainwashed all your life to believe your country is good, nothing will convince you. Disagree. 2 million people are currently on the precipice of extermination. I spent my life up until the present moment fighting Nazis and I'm not going to stop now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) 12 hours ago, Nivsch said: Israel did more than 10 surgical intelligence operations in the last 18 years and it only lead to oct 7th. What lead to Oct 7th was the decades-long Israeli policy of settlement and indefinite stalling of any kind of long-term peace deal that recognizes the rights and soveriegnty of Palestinians. Quote 13 hours ago, Leo Gura said: People invest their entire lives into building their homes. To just destroy it is a serious crime. Especially in areas where people are poor. But if those homes were indeed used by hamas to their purposes? I read an article in which an Israel soldiers says that hamas is found in every or almost every building. That's certainly not true. And if my "used" you mean some Hamas guy slept in one apartment in a high-rise of 500 units, so what? That doesn't justify destroying the building. Quote I found it: https://www.timesofisrael.com/irresponsibility-compounds-catastrophe-why-the-idfs-war-against-hamas-has-lost-momentum/ "The tactics caused devastation in northern Gaza, where Hamas had booby-trapped “every other house,” in the words of IDF officials." Of course now they booby-trap houses in the middle of a warzone. So what? It's urban warfare. Quote 13 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Also, don't forget, that building is someone's property and home. Are you okay if I bomb your mother's house when she is out shopping? People invest their entire lives into building their homes. To just destroy it is a serious crime. Especially in areas where people are poor. I understand you and respect that. But then again, are civil neighborhoods in Gaza really sterile and doesn't used as fortifications of hamas? I got the impression many of them are that way. Are Israeli villages sterile? If one radical Zionist settler lives in a kibbutz, does that mean we can bomb the whole kibbutz now? There are many radical far-right Zionists sprinkled amidst the otherwise sensible Israeli population. Does that mean we can bomb high-rises in Tel Aviv? Quote 13 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Many intelligent people also criticized the US invasion of Iraq and drone strikes, because it is an obvious misuse of force and leads to counter-productive results. But I fear we don't have another choice right now because of the hostages. I don't think Hamas would have any problem giving back the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire. So the hostages are not a driving factor in this war. The Israeli leaderships shows that their concern for the hostages is at best a second priority. Edited January 18 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) @Leo Gura Dont bother with these pro Israelis, they are totally brainwashed. It is sad that followers of your work can justify devilry of this scale. It just shows that if they justify these barbarisms even though Israelis have barely suffered under Palestine, imagine the hatred Palestinians must have towards Israelis where they been through 1000x worse for decades. Can you blame someone celebrating on 7th of October when they have personally had their home stolen and had family members killed by Israelis? I think most normal people would. Meanwhile how most Israelis never have had their homes stolen or had family members killed by Palestinians? Barely any Yet they equally celebrate. Shows how deep the hatred and brainwashing, is. Edited January 18 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) @Karmadhi If you are serious about my work then you should be aware that moralizing about this issue is beneath you. Edited January 18 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: If you are serious about my work then you should be aware that moralizing about this issue is beneath you Perhaps, but I would argue that calling out devilry is still a more evolved position than justifying devilry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) @Karmadhi I can take your what I think a sickingly twisted logic and say what you ARE in denial about and filter out: 1. The fact that Israel built a 1 Billion dollar smart fence out of the fantasy the thecnology will prevent wars. 2, Israel let Thousands of Gazans to work in its areas for years out of the hope it will make them moderate. 3. Israel did more than 10 careful operations with good surgicality lead to anything but worsen the situation in the long term. 4. Israelis soldiers are many of them boys in theirs 18-22 years that are also humen being with broad heart and worried mothers and familiy that are putting their lives in a serious risk in one of the most dangerous areas in the world. Thousands of them are doing that right now for more than 3 months straight. 5. The fact that almost no other military warned civilians so many time in many ways before their attacks. 6. The fact that a hostage suffering is X100 times harder than any other soldier or citizen from both sides. Imagine have a gun on your head for 100 days when you never know when the bullet will be shot on you and if it will. 130 of them. Now imagine this is one of your friends or family members. 7. The fact that Gaza kids are indoctrinate into killing and suicide from birth and already been damaged psychologically to a mental condition not less severe than any other mental disorders and need an urgent recovery if such a recovery is even possible, Million of them. Where was the world when that happened during all those years before the war? Edited January 18 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 5 minutes ago, Nivsch said: 7. The fact that Gaza kids are indoctrinate into killing and suicide from birth and already been damaged psychologically to a mental condition not less severe than any other mental disorders and need an urgent recovery if such a recovery is possible, Million of them. Question: How many Gaza kids have you actually ever met? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) Are Israeli kids not indoctrinated into killing? You have to appreciate that Hamas IS the military of Palestine. It's sort of like saying, we will go into Israel and kill their whole military until there is none left. And then bombing every house in Israel where any military person has ever visited. Good luck with that strategy. Edited January 18 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 I also want to emphasise that many many Europeans and Americans visit both Gaza and the West Bank very frequently for humanitarian purposes. Similarly, through various anti-war / pro-unity demonstrations again in Europe and America, people have an opportunity to brush shoulders with real Palestinians all the time. @Nivsch What is your experience with real Palestinians, and how many times have you visited either Gaza or the West Bank? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
