Somebody Please Explain This To Me

[Damir Elezi]

I find Leo's videos very helpful, true and easy to understand, but I never really got behind this enlightenment thing. All of you on this forum seem to be really convinced, that we all actually have no seperate self, which makes us all a single being. But how can you be so sure of this? If you say "This is the truth, the meaning of life etc." does this not make it another dogma? Another idea? As far as I know, Leo also did not reach the state of enlightenment yet, did he? Don't get me wrong, I believe that the feeling of spirituality and a sense of connection to the world, as we experience it in very rare moments of our lives, can be experienced more often through constant practice through meditation and so on. But actually sensing that we are actually not seperate AT ALL?
I'm sorry for being so provocative but all this just does not really make sense to me. Could someone maybe explain enlightenment to me in a rational, relatable kind of way? Like how do you know that this is true and how is it different from any other spiritual belief?

[Walter B]

1 minute ago, Damir Elezi said:

I find Leo's videos very helpful, true and easy to understand, but I never really got behind this enlightenment thing. All of you on this forum seem to be really convinced, that we all actually have no seperate self, which makes us all a single being. But how can you be so sure of this? If you say "This is the truth, the meaning of life etc." does this not make it another dogma? Another idea? As far as I know, Leo also did not reach the state of enlightenment yet, did he? Don't get me wrong, I believe that the feeling of spirituality and a sense of connection to the world, as we experience it in very rare moments of our lives, can be experienced more often through constant practice through meditation and so on. But actually sensing that we are actually not seperate AT ALL?
I'm sorry for being so provocative but all this just does not really make sense to me. Could someone maybe explain enlightenment to me in a rational, relatable kind of way? Like how do you know that this is true and how is it different from any other spiritual belief?

It's not a belief. It's experience. 

You must let go of all the control that incessantly eats at you from the things you have and life you've lived that define you.

Forget it all. All you need is yourself. When you are hungry, eat. When thirsty, drink. When tired, sleep. 

Don't worry with all the crap people want you to believe so you'll follow them. Learn to follow yourself. 

The hardest part in our current society is making money. The belief system in general is designed around control and money. If you believe it someone will likely try to make you pay for it!

[Spider Jerusalem]

18 minutes ago, Pinocchio said:

You'll mostly get regurgitated answers when you start to really question stuff. Because for the most part it is not questioned at all. Yes it generally becomes just more dogma. Business as usual.

And incidentally, as a consequence, you should consider the possibility that you have the wrong idea about what truth or enlightenment really is. In fact if delusion is a real possibility, then having the wrong idea is exceedingly likely. So my suggestion would be to keep questioning. If there's really something to this then it should be possible to get to the bottom of it.

Agree, and to add to this: There is a difference between being dogmatic and just making a working assumption based on your own intuition. The working assumption helps us move forward in some sense, but leaves the possibility of the assumption being invalidated in due course. However, the process of working through the assumption may lead to some other realization that was not expected.

[Leo Gura]

Don't take our words for it. Sit down and look for yourself at what is true.

Point to the you you think you are.

Have you noticed yet that you actually cannot find yourself in direct experience? Anything you can possibly point to is just a perception, not the perceiver.

It doesn't take much sitting to realize that you actually have no clue what you are.

There is this thing we call a "you", but upon closer inspection the you can never be found. Isn't that interesting! Why do you believe so firmly that there is a you at all? Surely if it was so obvious, you could easily point to what is perceiving reality. And yet you can't! Try it.

[Leo Gura]

@Pinocchio I have a checkbox for that which I usually ignore to check. Didn't think anyone cared.

[Damir Elezi]

@Leo Gura @Pinocchio     I kind of understand where you are going but for me there seems to be some kind of logical mistake in there. You say there is no "me" I can really point to. But does this absence of a seperate personality mean that all existence is just a "dream" and the only thing that's real is awareness?
I see it this way: We are all made up of atoms, which form chemical substances, which form certain structures, forming living cells, forming organs, forming the human body as an eco-system of all these living organism. (Of course we are not the last entity, as we ourselves are parts of the eco-system of the earth.) We can not track our seperate "self" because, scientifically speaking, we are not one entity, but a system of billions of entities, which are made up of the same stuff as any other matter in the universe. In this sense you could say that we are made out of the same material as anything else but how does that mean that everything is the same and nothing is really real? I think we have this "Illusion of self" because our brain creates it in order to hold us as a system together. We are limited to our emotions, our feelings, our senses. I can not feel what another person feels etc. how is it then possible that we are all the same thing and have the illusion of being seperate? Of course now you would argue that all this is a projection of the "ego". But.. how do you come to that conclusion? I want to get it because I feel there is something basic about that which I don't understand.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Damir Elezi

[Damir Elezi]

@Pinocchio I agree very much with the article you linked there. I realized before that we can not know anything for certain, except for the fact that we exist in some kind of way. But I don't know how to resume from that point. Could you maybe recommend a book that explains this topic? 

[RandomPaul]

Hi! I'm not enlightened, not even close, in fact, I don't even know if I saw the footprints of the ox. Yesterday something I never experienced happened, it filled me with up joy (it actually hurt a bit and numbed my head, and brought tears in my eyes, all of a sudden), I can't talk about it yet cause I didn't really digest it but I hope I'm gonna make the courage soon. Here's how I see the pursuit of enlightenment and please point out if you think it's a wrong view. 

I look at it like this: in sports, as a kid, you're thought to make the moves mechanicaly, you don't really get it, you just practice and then, after lots of work it comes naturally and the coach allows you to make the team (I did volleyball). I go about spiritual awakening the same, I'm just doing the stuff mechanically for now, meditating how I see fit, practicing awareness with every chance and thinking about it a lot (keeping eyes and mind open). I feel that in the end I'm going to do it less and less mechanically and more and more naturally (who knows, maybe I'm really gonna wake up). 

And if I ask myself, what if I can't reach a perfect state, doesn't matter, there are also real tangible benfits (health / psgychological) so you can't go wrong. Simply have no expectations and enjoy whatever there is to enjoy  no need to obsess over what enlightenment might be or what benefits it contains. (sorry if sloppy english, not a native speaker) 

[Galyna]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Pinocchio I have a checkbox for that which I usually ignore to check. Didn't think anyone cared.

Leo, not sure why, but I can not follow you. Should I leave more posts for that?

Edited February 14, 2016 by Galyna

[Galyna]

@Pinocchio Thank you so much

[abrakamowse]

@Damir Elezi  Don't believe in anything, the root of the problem is our beliefs. Try to understand and then investigate and confirm by yourself that what you read or watched it's true. And we are changing all the time and growing, what it seems true for us now it can be false then and a greater truth can be understood by us.

At least that's how I see it now.

Hope it helps.

:-)

[Matej]

@Damir Elezi I just wouldn't really worry about the whole thing. This is just a story what someone says. Nothing of real value. Until I experience anything like it, it'll be just a story. Nothing more. Opening your mind to the possibility and all the good stuff is nice but I better spend the time working on things to live better life, this is for people with dozens of years of meditation experiences. It is not important for me at this state.

Cute idea, maybe I'll get to it later on.

[Khin]

You know what I realized? I realized that not everyone will understand this enlightenment and people who understand it already have the seed of enlightenment knowledge (since birth) in them already.

[Natasha]

I am not enlightened, but I got awakened after some meditation, deep self-inquiry work, and staying open-minded. This is the kind of thing that when it happens, you just know. And what I know, I can't really explain, therefore I try not to talk about it. 

[Natasha]

1 hour ago, Khin said:

You know what I realized? I realized that not everyone will understand this enlightenment and people who understand it already have the seed of enlightenment knowledge (since birth) in them already.

Its interesting you mentioned that, because something that had registered was a glimpse of awareness inside my mother's womb. There was  no self-awareness, just an awareness of in there. I still have a vague picture of it, but just as a distant memory.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Natasha

[Khin]

@Natasha Yeah! It doesn't matter, isn't it? LOL.

There was one day I read something like "Thanks to mother nature, dogs in Alaska have thick fur." And I was like, aren't dogs mother nature themselves? LOL