I finally figured out the answer to the question 'What do women want?'

[supremeyingyang]

this thread in a nutshell:

 

[mr_engineer]

9 hours ago, something_else said:

Then stop coming up with theories on topics you don’t know much about 

Go and have a relationship or two and then you’ll start to understand how woman think about relationships much better.

Well, you talk about relationships like they're candy-bars. 'Just go and have one or two, then you'll know what they taste like. Then you talk about the taste'. You don't sound like you know much about relationships either. So, this whole point of 'you don't know about relationships' sounds very rich coming from you. 

[Leo Gura]

@mr_engineer Dude, stop worring about long-term relationships. Sleep with some women first.

You are putting the cart before the horse.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Leo Gura

[mr_engineer]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@mr_engineer Dude, stop worring about long-term relationships. Sleep with some women first.

You are putting the cart before the horse.

I'm sorry, I don't see women as walking talking holes. 

Also, I want the sex within the context of relationship, not just for the heck of it. Meaning, the relationship is more important to me. So, I must worry about long-term relationships. 

[CARDOZZO]

@mr_engineer

Do you think all women behave in the same way regarding dating?

I’m curious about your mental model.

[Javfly33]

13 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

I'm sorry, I don't see women as walking talking holes. 

Also, I want the sex within the context of relationship, not just for the heck of it. Meaning, the relationship is more important to me. So, I must worry about long-term relationships. 

You need to be honest on what is best for you in your current phase of your life, not morally or similarly what you think is best.

I say this because I used to think like you and then I realized I was wrong.

But of course you might have a different background/phase of life...I'm just saying, inspect what you really really want.

[mr_engineer]

29 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

@mr_engineer

Do you think all women behave in the same way regarding dating?

I’m curious about your mental model.

No, not all women. 

Women whose authentic priority is relationships, who are intellectually smart, who are feminine, who have been raised to be 'independent', who don't fundamentally hate men in terms of mindset, who are ambitious, who have some self-awareness and who have healed trauma around men controlling them behave the way I'm describing. 

• Those whose authentic priority isn't relationships will have loose attachments and will date loosely. They're better for friends-with-benefits arrangements than LTRs. 
• Those who aren't intellectually smart are better for one-night stands than LTRs. Most 'club hoes' fall into this category, there's no scope for companionship with them. 
• Those who haven't been raised to be 'independent' probably just don't go out enough cuz their family traps them at home doing home-making, so you don't bump into them outside. 
• Those who aren't ambitious are going to cut the wind from your sails when you're being ambitious and they won't respect your dreams, so things won't sustainably work with them. 
• Those who aren't self-aware will not tell you what they really want, they'll use manipulations to get their way in relationships. Not trustworthy, the relationship-environment will turn into an anxious minefield. A relationship with such a person will spiral out of control due to arguments and fights, even if the transaction somehow works out. 
• And, those who haven't healed their trauma/who fundamentally hate men - you just stay away from them. They're not worth a single brain-cell of yours. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by mr_engineer

[CARDOZZO]

@mr_engineer Now I’m understanding the “engineer” in your nickname.

Are you an engineer?

If so, dude, I’m on STEM also. (Computer Scientist)

You have a map of reality so rigid about women and you believe it fucking hard.

You wouldn’t believe how hard-working/intelligent girls I’ve met on clubs.

Architects, Engineers, Designers, Nurses.

I’m talking about stunning woman. (Search for @provocateurpoa on Instagram).

You don’t need to go to a club.

Question your map of reality.

I encourage you to read:

• The Book of Not Knowing - Peter Ralston
• The Alabaster Girl - Zan Perrion

Final question:

• Do you know where your type of woman live?

Generalization is fucking dangerous.

Edited July 17, 2023 by CARDOZZO

[something_else]

@mr_engineer From the sounds of it, I think you want an LTR but you are trying to plan out every last detail of the perfect relationship before you enter one, is that right? That is the impression I get.

[mr_engineer]

6 hours ago, CARDOZZO said:

Now I’m understanding the “engineer” in your nickname.

Are you an engineer?

If so, dude, I’m on STEM also. (Computer Scientist)

Yeah. I did Mechanical Engineering in my undergrad. And, I did a year of grad-school in Applied Math. So, yeah. STEM proper. 

6 hours ago, CARDOZZO said:

You have a map of reality so rigid about women and you believe it fucking hard.

You wouldn’t believe how hard-working/intelligent girls I’ve met on clubs.

Architects, Engineers, Designers, Nurses.

I’m talking about stunning woman. (Search for @provocateurpoa on Instagram).

You don’t need to go to a club.

Everyone is a nerd these days. That level of intelligence is the norm now. When I say 'intellectually smart', I mean, someone who is not an NPC, someone who has a mind of their own. That's much rarer. And, most of the people in the degenerate party-environment would be NPCs. Precisely because they're going there to tune out their emotional-issues. The party-environment is a giant coping-mechanism. Booze, sex, drugs, loud music, you name it. It's a shitshow. 

6 hours ago, CARDOZZO said:

Final question:

• Do you know where your type of woman live?

Generalization is fucking dangerous.

I've met some really amazing women in Boulder, Colorado. Everyone's crazy about physical fitness there, there are a lot of spiritual people, lot of psychics. 

Before going there, like everyone else, I just wanted a hot-looking woman. But, when I met women who were more spiritual, when I saw that there's more to relationships than what meets the eye, my ideas of what's possible in relationships expanded. So, if you're asking me whether what I'm saying is realistic or not, it absolutely is. 

If you go to a New-Age event and you tell people about your Life-Purpose, you will hook the hot women instantly. I may not have been in a relationship because of my level of readiness, I may not have engaged in casual sex because of my values, but I do know what hooks women in which environments. I'm not insecure about my level of game, given where I am in life. 

5 hours ago, something_else said:

@mr_engineer From the sounds of it, I think you want an LTR but you are trying to plan out every last detail of the perfect relationship before you enter one, is that right? That is the impression I get.

Women do this thinking with their girlfriends all the time. Why shouldn't we get to do this thinking?! Why should we have no standards, think with our dicks and just help each other with our game and nothing else?! 

I get the feeling that PUAs greatly underestimate the power of compatibility and being with a compatible woman. The quality of sex-life that's possible if we figure out compatibility. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by mr_engineer

[supremeyingyang]

35 minutes ago, Nabd said:

The guys I mentioned don't mind it, but I know other people who would feel insecure.

Young women and men are usually highly educated in Syria, but you wont earn enough if you work most jobs. For example I am a dentist and I worked as a taxi driver because it earns more money and unless you work with UN or some other international organization where you get paid in equivalent of dollars then you will starve, but these jobs are very competitive and usually are predetermined by the government for their own people.

Other options are freelance like subtitling or translating which is outsourced from UAE for cheap labour. I worked with Disney recently subtitling from English to Arabic but we get dirt while UAE companies swim in cash.

Wow. This is all hard. You do so good, but cannot earn a decent living?!

Is it like this: Younger people compete over the rare good jobs? Reminds me of India, only India is even harder.. People with a masters degree in CS can hold a job. Meanwhile in Germany people hire anyone who can code hello world -

35 minutes ago, Nabd said:

I actually play electric guitar and if I ever make an album or even a song then I'll use that name lol

Love to hear that!))

[something_else]

5 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Women do this thinking with their girlfriends all the time. Why shouldn't we get to do this thinking?! Why should we have no standards, think with our dicks and just help each other with our game and nothing else?! 

It's fairly common for woman to plan out exactly what man they want, and then get swept off their feet by a man who doesn't really match the description at all because she develops strong feelings for him. I've seen this happen several times now.

We should do this planning too, it can be beneficial. I am not saying you should have no standards or that you should think with your dick, those are words you are putting in my mouth. My point is that you are planning with a severe lack of information to judge compatibility accurately. And that the information you are lacking is not something you can get from the internet or a forum, no matter how hard you try.

It's very hard to know what you want from a relationship when you haven't been in one. Many of the things you think you want, you don't. And many of the things you want, you don't even think about.

Have you heard of the term paralysis by over-analysis? I think it describes what you are doing here quite well. So much theory and so much thinking that you are shooting yourself in the foot in terms of actual progress towards your practical goal of having a great relationship.

Quote

I get the feeling that PUAs greatly underestimate the power of compatibility and being with a compatible woman. The quality of sex-life that's possible if we figure out compatibility. 

Compatibility is not something you can map out logically. For example you are coming up with rules like "I need to make more than her boss for her to be compatible with me" which is an arbitrary logical rule unrelated to compatibility for most women you would actually want to be in a relationship with. 

So you've already made a fundamental flaw in your compatibility planning which is caused by a total lack of practical understanding of how women think about relationships.

I know you're now immediately thinking about responding with "well how do woman think about relationships then?" and the answer is that in this case, most woman only care that are earning roughly the same as them. And even there, there are plenty of exceptions. Some woman are gold diggers and want you to earn a bunch of money and some will literally date broke men if they are attractive in other ways. This is part of the reason why what you're doing is so silly; woman vary a lot.

Edited July 17, 2023 by something_else

[mr_engineer]

8 hours ago, something_else said:

It's fairly common for woman to plan out exactly what man they want, and then get swept off their feet by a man who doesn't really match the description at all because she develops strong feelings for him. I've seen this happen several times now.

That's the textbook definition of being dumb. If this isn't dumb, I don't know what is. 

8 hours ago, something_else said:

We should do this planning too, it can be beneficial. I am not saying you should have no standards or that you should think with your dick, those are words you are putting in my mouth. My point is that you are planning with a severe lack of information to judge compatibility accurately. And that the information you are lacking is not something you can get from the internet or a forum, no matter how hard you try.

You gotta roll with what you know, right?! Being dissatisfied with what I know and saying that 'I have a severe lack of information' takes away from my self-confidence and my game. I'd rather take pride in what I know. 

8 hours ago, something_else said:

It's very hard to know what you want from a relationship when you haven't been in one. Many of the things you think you want, you don't. And many of the things you want, you don't even think about.

*@something_else is on a date with a woman*

W - What kind of relationship do you want? 

@something_else - Oh, relationship?! I don't know, I'm clueless, I have a severe lack of information. 

W - Why are we on a date, then?! 

@something_else So that I can get information to figure it out for myself. You're just a number to me anyways, I'm just collecting data about women. Who are you, anyways?! Why are we on a date to begin with?! I don't know anything, I'm clueless. 

W - Aww, that's so sad! Go live with your mom, that'll teach you about women. 

8 hours ago, something_else said:

Compatibility is not something you can map out logically. For example you are coming up with rules like "I need to make more than her boss for her to be compatible with me" which is an arbitrary logical rule unrelated to compatibility for most women you would actually want to be in a relationship with. 

It's relatively straightforward to see who the modern woman respects. And I'd rather be respected in relationship than not. 

When you say 'it can't be mapped out logically', this is a limiting-belief that complicates the whole process. If you just set the rules and work accordingly, things become very simple and straightforward. 

Also, if you don't map out compatibility logically, how do you justify the terms and conditions for your commitment? 

8 hours ago, something_else said:

So you've already made a fundamental flaw in your compatibility planning which is caused by a total lack of practical understanding of how women think about relationships.

What's important isn't how they think, what's important is what they actually want. And who they actually fantasize about with their girlfriends. If you read romance-novels, they always talk about the 'rich client/CEO who came to meet their boss'. There are plenty of rom-coms in which they're flirting with a man who their boss is treating with respect in a professional setting. They see those kinds of men as hot shit. 

8 hours ago, something_else said:

I know you're now immediately thinking about responding with "well how do woman think about relationships then?" and the answer is that in this case, most woman only care that are earning roughly the same as them. And even there, there are plenty of exceptions. Some woman are gold diggers and want you to earn a bunch of money and some will literally date broke men if they are attractive in other ways. This is part of the reason why what you're doing is so silly; woman vary a lot.

I'm talking about proper LTRs, not these situation-ships in which they meet some broke musician in a party, fantasize about them for a while, then they talk about it with their girlfriends, the girlfriend asks how much he makes, she can't answer it and she moves on cuz her image is on the line. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Whitney Edwards]

7 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

What's important isn't how they think, what's important is what they actually want. And who they actually fantasize about with their girlfriends. If you read romance-novels, they always talk about the 'rich client/CEO who came to meet their boss'. There are plenty of rom-coms in which they're flirting with a man who their boss is treating with respect in a professional setting. They see those kinds of men as hot shit. 

Women generally say one thing but do another. What women are attracted to is highly unpredictable and you cannot rely on romcom fantasies for that. Different women are attracted to different men depending on the situation they find themselves in with that man. Women aren't logical with their choice, although you might call it dumb, but that's what it is and you'll have to contend with that to be realistic. 

[CARDOZZO]

We don’t have a theory of everything to female sexual behavior.

What a shame ?

[Whitney Edwards]

21 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

No, not all women. 

Women whose authentic priority is relationships, who are intellectually smart, who are feminine, who have been raised to be 'independent', who don't fundamentally hate men in terms of mindset, who are ambitious, who have some self-awareness and who have healed trauma around men controlling them behave the way I'm describing. 

• Those whose authentic priority isn't relationships will have loose attachments and will date loosely. They're better for friends-with-benefits arrangements than LTRs. 
• Those who aren't intellectually smart are better for one-night stands than LTRs. Most 'club hoes' fall into this category, there's no scope for companionship with them. 
• Those who haven't been raised to be 'independent' probably just don't go out enough cuz their family traps them at home doing home-making, so you don't bump into them outside. 
• Those who aren't ambitious are going to cut the wind from your sails when you're being ambitious and they won't respect your dreams, so things won't sustainably work with them. 
• Those who aren't self-aware will not tell you what they really want, they'll use manipulations to get their way in relationships. Not trustworthy, the relationship-environment will turn into an anxious minefield. A relationship with such a person will spiral out of control due to arguments and fights, even if the transaction somehow works out. 
• And, those who haven't healed their trauma/who fundamentally hate men - you just stay away from them. They're not worth a single brain-cell of yours. 

This list is funny. It's like you're deciding what should be done with women, in reality you absolutely can't. It's not up to you to decide what a woman will want or how she will behave. You're being clueless to reality. You might make up your mind about a certain woman and she might have already decided to leave the bond with you. You cannot frame and set up such things. A relationship is highly fluid and whatever happens is decided by time and events and emotions on both sides. It's not a robot you're controlling. You are building castles in the air. 

Wise up and actually start dating and meet women and even then it's not guaranteed but you will have a certain idea of how things are. You will have general attraction patterns. It will help you improve how to talk and what to talk. Or avoid common traps, like for example women dating solely for money. Without dating, you wouldn't know compatibility. 

[CARDOZZO]

@mr_engineer 

You’re a well-educated man.

But your systems engineering/analytical skills are messing you up regarding dating.

You deserve a good woman and you’re searching for that, I appreciate it.

It seems that you want to be a sniper to give one perfect shot to find your woman.

It can happen, but it’s not realistic enough.

[something_else]

20 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

You gotta roll with what you know, right?! Being dissatisfied with what I know and saying that 'I have a severe lack of information' takes away from my self-confidence and my game. I'd rather take pride in what I know. 

But you don't know very much about this topic. Taking pride in what you know here is self-delusion. It is wiser to accurately assess your skills/knowledge/experience than pride yourself into thinking you are an expert on a topic you don't really know much about.

20 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

When you say 'it can't be mapped out logically', this is a limiting-belief that complicates the whole process. If you just set the rules and work accordingly, things become very simple and straightforward. 

You actually don't know if it's a limiting belief or not. You also don't know if things will become straightforward if you only think hyper-logically about this. You are assuming both of these things.

It seems that you think because this approach works in other areas of your life (engineering) it will work here, which is fallacy. You're approaching relationships like a science when they are much more like an art.

20 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

If you read romance-novels, they always talk about the 'rich client/CEO who came to meet their boss'

Ehhm, do they? In my experience + some googling, most rom-coms/novels seem to be about love triumphing over materialism or money. At least where I live. Maybe where you live they are different. But 'always' is certainly the wrong word to use here either way.

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by something_else

[mr_engineer]

49 minutes ago, something_else said:

But you don't know very much about this topic. Taking pride in what you know here is self-delusion. It is wiser to accurately assess your skills/knowledge/experience than pride yourself into thinking you are an expert on a topic you don't really know much about.

Is this just condescension for its own sake or is there a point to it? 

49 minutes ago, something_else said:

You actually don't know if it's a limiting belief or not. You also don't know if things will become straightforward if you only think hyper-logically about this. You are assuming both of these things.

It seems that you think because this approach works in other areas of your life (engineering) it will work here, which is fallacy. You're approaching relationships like a science when they are much more like an art.

What could go wrong if I think about this hyper-logically? 

49 minutes ago, something_else said:

Ehhm, do they? In my experience + some googling, most rom-coms/novels seem to be about love triumphing over materialism or money. At least where I live. Maybe where you live they are different. But 'always' is certainly the wrong word to use here either way.

I'm talking about the rom-coms pitched to women, not to men. The ones pitched to men do, in fact, show 'love triumphing over materialism', where the skinny nerd gets the girl over the jock, cuz 'love triumphs over materialism', 'he's more sensitive and loving than the jock'. 

But, in the ones pitched to women, they show a well-set, well-built, financially stable guy who also happens to be emotionally sensitive (lol, that's just not the reality for most well-set guys, you gotta be a ruthless killer to be that rich, unless you have a contribution-based Life-Purpose, in which case the protagonist/superhero is the man and not the woman), who takes her on expensive dates/vacations/they meet at a party in Miami or something where he's the host/very close to the host. And, the plot is about some emotional drama that happens with his ex, where his ex and the female protagonist are making each other jealous and then, he sees how much she loves her, how 'authentically feminine' she is, as opposed to the shallow ex who just wears push-up bras to look hot/who has a rich background herself. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by mr_engineer

[something_else]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

Is this just condescension for its own sake or is there a point to it? 

The point is exactly what I wrote.

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

What could go wrong if I think about this hyper-logically? 

Metaphorically, the same thing that would go wrong if you thought about boxing hyper-logically for 5 years, had no actual experience physically boxing, and then fought in a real boxing match.

Or sat theorising about graphic design for 5 years, did no actual drawing, and then took on a graphic designer job.

In both cases you are not going to significantly improve your chances of success by spending those 5 years analysing each field hyper-logically. Relationships are very similar.

You can and should think logically about relationships, that is part of your role as a man, but you need the actual experience to make the logical thinking worthwhile. Otherwise you're just mentally-masturbating in your bedroom.

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

I'm talking about the rom-coms pitched to women, not to men

Almost no rom-coms or romance novels are pitched towards men, lol.

Rom-coms cover a massive range of plots, not just this finance dynamic you are focusing on. Different plots to cater to different women with different preferences.