Should you want to be the BEST of the BEST? (David Goggins, Micheal Jordan..etc)

[UpperMaster]

Being the best of the best. The most dominant in your field. Is it a goal worth chasing after? Or rather, is there anything wrong with chasing this goal?

Most successful athletes, businessman seem to adapt this mindset of always trying to come on top. Eg. David Goggins constantly pushes himself to be not only the best version of himself, but the best person in his field. 

I think the question has quiet a lot to do with intrinsic and extrinsic motivation, and whether we should ignore all extrinsic motivation. 

I personally feel like I need a combination of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation to be at my best. I really enjoy the process of planning and executing, to be better comparative to other people. The whole journey feels so good, and at the end its perfect. I've done this for school work and debate competition and it really pushed me to perform my best.

People have told me that choosing to live at a win/lose basis is a guaranteed way to live a harsh and shitty life. I see where this can be problematic, I'm not asking whether or not I should beat myself up every time I lose ( I had a serious problem with this before ), but rather if actually aiming to be the best is a good idea.

Is this a trap? What do you guys think...?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by UpperMaster

[Devin]

No goal is worth chasing

If practicing your craft is enjoyable to you, you will be the greatest.

Nothing is worth chasing. Only chase because of the chase, and you'll be the greatest even though you don't care about that. But you'll be happy.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Devin

[aurum]

@UpperMaster

Yes and no.

It definitely could be motivating. And there's nothing wrong with competition per say. Until it becomes a problem.

One issue is how do you properly decide who is the "best" in a field? Especially if your field is more subjective, like art. Even in sports, which has statistics to back up claims, people can still barely decide. So you may end up chasing a never-ending phantom.

The other issue is that too much obsession with your career or life purpose can potentially distract from deeper consciousness work and / or relationships and other areas of life. So you really have to be clear about what you want out of life.

I'm personally not interested in a being a David Goggins type of person. Seems like he has a lot of internal war he is still working through.

[UpperMaster]

@aurum I mean look. It is only a problem when it causes you more harm than good. Most people who operate on a win-lose basis struggle to deal with losing. People like Michael Jordan don't like to lose, but they know how to focus their energies to make a comeback (most people can't do this). So I would argue that it is more good than bad.

Alright sure, at the top, it is hard to say whose the best. But you can definitely think of a few people right off the bat who are among the greatest, if not the best, in any field. Eg. Tiger Woods in Golf.

I do agree in art its slightly more difficult because the only real track record of success is monetary. I agree only chasing monetary success isn't great but I definitely think it can be good motivation.

I don't buy this bs that monetary success is super virtuousness. I would rather be rich than poor.

[Max_V]

I think such reasons are not tenable to keep you working hard in the long run. Eventually the shallowness of it will dawn on you. Rather, ground your work-ethic in mastery; strive to be good at your purpose for it’s own sake and the good it will provide to yourself and the world. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Max_V

[UpperMaster]

@Max_V Ok. I agree. What do you say about trying to be the best in a profession you love? I am convinced that you should do the work for it's own sake, but I don't understand why you would completely ignore all extrinsic motivation.

 

Also, there are plenty of things you have to do in life that you might not necessarily want to do. For eg School. Why would it be harmful to try to become the best in your class?

[Max_V]

@UpperMaster Because like I said, there isn't any depth in that. It is something we as humans chase, a survival need to be liked by the tribe, but after 10+ years of doing that, you might realise it never ends and leaves you empty. It is unironically the rat on the wheel chasing the cheese in front meme.
Intrinsic meaning is the most fulfillment you'll ever get out of your profession.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Max_V

[Devin]

Jordan, woods, goggins, seem to have troubled lives outside their careers. They're on top, but is that all you want? I do think they got there in a fashion similar to what you're describing but i think you have to be scared out of your gord to do it, I think they had very strong fear motivators they were running from.

[Leo Gura]

On 9/21/2022 at 1:27 PM, UpperMaster said:

Is it a goal worth chasing after?

No.

Be God. That's the best.

What you want is happiness, not social status or "being the best".

All these famous high-achievers are obsessive and neurotic.

Which does not mean you cannot be ambitious. But stop doing work to be better than others. This is so silly. Just do the work you enjoy for its own sake.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Revolutionary Think]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What you want is happiness, not social status or "being the best".

And a state of flow while you're doing the work too. That to me is great. 

[UpperMaster]

@Devin@Leo Gura @Max_V

After deep contemplation and research: I do agree with everyone here, doing something for its own sake is the best route.

However, after looking at the replies, I was still unsure of how survival comes into play? I recently saw a post on the forum talking about how AI Art is ruining the jobs for artists. Ideally you would still create art for its own sake, but not being able to make money from your work severely limits your ability to create art, not to mention survive.

In efforts to answer this question, I contemplated and researched, ultimately finding an answer in a book by Robert Green : Mastery.

Robert emphasizes the value of mastering something for its own sake and advises putting financial gains aside. He says that if you are an expert in your field, you will be compensated inevitably.

He does however also go through the essential social skills needed for anyone trying to master a field. He provides real life examples of how poor social skills can rob you of the opportunity to practice your craft, and the importance of handling people + getting your way. This goes against the whole "forget about society and social status".

I personally agree completely with Robert on this topic.

Example demonstrating my point:

Lets assume you are an aspiring scientist and aim to work on a new theory.

1. Firstly once you become a scientist you inevitably need to use your social skills to get yourself in the ideal position where you have the freedom to work on your theory.

2. After gathering substantial evidence for a hypothesis, you should maintain solid connections with the scientific community since your network will help your work get noticed. Good science allows you to do more good science.

3. Also, social skills are absolutely necessary for your ass to not get exploited.

What are your thoughts on this? Let me know.

 

[Devin]

On 9/24/2022 at 1:09 PM, UpperMaster said:

@Devin@Leo Gura @Max_V

After deep contemplation and research: I do agree with everyone here, doing something for its own sake is the best route.

However, after looking at the replies, I was still unsure of how survival comes into play? I recently saw a post on the forum talking about how AI Art is ruining the jobs for artists. Ideally you would still create art for its own sake, but not being able to make money from your work severely limits your ability to create art, not to mention survive.

In efforts to answer this question, I contemplated and researched, ultimately finding an answer in a book by Robert Green : Mastery.

Robert emphasizes the value of mastering something for its own sake and advises putting financial gains aside. He says that if you are an expert in your field, you will be compensated inevitably.

He does however also go through the essential social skills needed for anyone trying to master a field. He provides real life examples of how poor social skills can rob you of the opportunity to practice your craft, and the importance of handling people + getting your way. This goes against the whole "forget about society and social status".

I personally agree completely with Robert on this topic.

Example demonstrating my point:

Lets assume you are an aspiring scientist and aim to work on a new theory.

1. Firstly once you become a scientist you inevitably need to use your social skills to get yourself in the ideal position where you have the freedom to work on your theory.

2. After gathering substantial evidence for a hypothesis, you should maintain solid connections with the scientific community since your network will help your work get noticed. Good science allows you to do more good science.

3. Also, social skills are absolutely necessary for your ass to not get exploited.

What are your thoughts on this? Let me know.

 

I don't think career choice has as much weight as most people do, I'd advise not make your life about your career, I look at jobs as a time of rest actually, once you get proficient at it anyway

But yeah, social skills are very important. Tesla was the master, but Edison was a socialite, Tesla a recluse

Edited September 28, 2022 by Devin