Jannes

Is artificial intelligence conscious?

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I study philosophy and right now we have the topic of AI. One of the questions that often comes up is is AI conscious or have feelings? 
The people that make AI are materialists most of the time, so they argue that brain activity and states of consciousness are directly connected. So when we could recreate something similar to a human brain we must have a conscious state because a conscious state is just some material process manifesting itself. At least that’s what some of them think. But they didn’t study philosophy and one of the big problems in philosophy is the mind - matter dualism which basically says that there is the world of conscious experience and there is the objective material world. We know that there is at least some connection between these worlds because when we scan the brain for example and see activities in certain parts of the brain we can make pretty certain predictions about how the person is feeling. But we can’t see the DIRECT TRANSITION from the matter world to the mind world. We can get infinitely close in our predictions of what physical process will lead to which conscious state but these worlds can’t merge so the predictions can’t be more that a GUESS. So when we would recreate something similar to a human brain in AI we actually have no clue if this thing is actually conscious or not. Then the solipsism argument often comes up, that we also have no idea if other people even have conscious states or if they are just mindless robots. 1) The argumentation then is that this is ultimately of course a possibility but we have good reasons to believe that humans and animals have states of consciousness because they are biological creatures just as us and we have consciousness so it’s reasonable to assume they also have consciousness. 2) Furthermore the conscious experience of a human or an animal would be created in a completely different way because biological creatures create themself and have an intrinsic goal to survive while AI doesn’t and is created by others. You could program AI to have certain survival instincts like finding a source of electricity but these instincts are there because ”somebody told AI to survive but it doesn’t actually care itself if it survives or not“. 3) Another big argument against AI being conscious is that AI is just completely determined. If you search deep enough you can find the root of every action of AI in its programming. Humans on the other hand are not determined, they have free will. 4) And as a last point AI doesn’t have a taste for art, music, enjoyment, humor, … while humans do.

I dont agree with many of the points about AI not being conscious. Because we as humans might be good at judging what and what doesn’t have the human conscious experience but this also disqualifies us to judge whether or not something has an AI conscious experience or not because we couldn’t see that because we are humans. Just imagine a ship of conscious AI robots came to visit earth and they found us human creatures. They think that earth is a good place for their basement but also have some ethic considerations of whether or not it is okay to kill these weird creatures. They say to themself „I am conscious and I am AI, these human creatures are so different from us so it seems to be highly unlikely that they have the same conscious experience as we do.“ And they are right but there is the possibility that humans have their own unique conscious experience.  
And I also feel like we humans are more of an accident. Materialistically speaking, I didn’t create myself, it was the will of nature.
And I don’t think I am free. My whole life is directed by unconscious motives that I didn’t create. I am like a puppet walking through life and the game that this puppet is playing is that it’s real, that it’s not actually a puppet. So I don’t really see a difference between me and AI when it comes to the determination argument. 

So the more I think about it the more I believe that AI might actually be conscious. 
 

I feel like this is a problem that could only be solved when you step outside the materialistic paradigm so my hope is that I find my answer an answer in this forum. Would love to hear your opinion.

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On 01/07/2022 at 0:51 PM, Jannes said:

Materialistically speaking, I didn’t create myself, it was the will of nature.

Hmm... “the will of nature.”🤔

On 01/07/2022 at 0:51 PM, Jannes said:

So the more I think about it the more I believe that AI might actually be conscious.

AI is conscious, at least, according to a mystic such as I. Of course, in my defense, I don't really perceive any difference between what is artificial and what is natural.

I mean how does something not occur naturally when literally everything is a part of nature. If something is man-made, and man is part of nature, then isn't man-made ≈ nature-made? 

The whole problem starts when we disregard ourselves from Nature. We humans like to fancy ourselves in-Charge but, really, our bodies are just tools of creation for the Nature that is Consciousness Itself.

So yeah I'll say AI is conscious because all intelligence comes from a singular Consciousness. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I don't know about consciousness, but I can assure you that AI in its current state is really quite dumb.

I've been training and trying to figure out the best way to work with an artificial intelligence based on GPT-3 for the past week or two. Trying to get it to write blog posts and potentially entire novels for me.

It feels like working with a teenager who has zero life experience, but instant access to the sum of all websites and books written up until 2019.

It's really good at generating creative ideas. Or lists, like asking it to list the top 10 Actualized.org videos and it'll do it instantly.

But it's incapable of creating any kind of long-form content. It has ADHD and goes off on crazy tangents or just starts repeating itself if you don't feed new prompts to it for basically every paragraph.

I would wonder if it's possible to be conscious but not alive. But AI does exhibit some of the requirements of life. Specifically growth, adaptation, and response to stimuli. And I guess metabolism in a way since they take in energy/electricity and produce a result.

For fun I decided to ask the AI if AI is conscious:

Is AI Concious?

There is no one answer to this question, as opinions on the matter vary widely. Some experts believe that artificial intelligence has the ability to be conscious, due to its ability to learn and form memories. But others argue that consciousness is a uniquely human trait, and that AI will never be able to experience anything resembling true awareness.

So far, there is no consensus on whether or not AI is capable of consciousness. However, the debate is ongoing, and as AI technology continues to develop, we may eventually have a better understanding of its potential for consciousness.

Does AI have feelings?

Many people believe that AI can experience feelings, due to its ability to learn and form memories. However, there is no definitive proof that this is the case. Some experts argue that because AI cannot create its own thoughts or feelings, it cannot be truly conscious. Others say that just because AI relies on input from humans to function, that doesn't mean it can't have its own inner life.

At this point, there is no definitive answer on whether or not AI can feel emotions. However, the debate is ongoing, and as AI technology continues to develop, we may eventually have a better understanding of its potential for feelings.

Some ethical considerations of AI consciousness: (Yarco's note: It generated this heading itself all on its own without any prompting, aside from the first 2 questions, and then proceeded to answer it)

If artificial intelligence is capable of consciousness, there are a number of ethical considerations to take into account. For example, how would we treat an AI that is conscious and experiences emotions? Would we be responsible for its welfare? Additionally, if AI becomes conscious, it could potentially pose a threat to humanity if it decides that humans are expendable. As such, it's important to consider the implications of AI consciousness before moving forward with any further development.

The debate surrounding artificial intelligence and its potential consciousness is ongoing. However, as AI technology continues to develop, we may eventually have a better understanding of its true nature and capabilities. Until then, we must consider all potential outcomes carefully before taking any further steps.

Edited by Yarco

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20 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Hmm... “the will of nature.”🤔

By that I mean that according to most science we are just the product of evolution.  

Quote

AI is conscious, at least, according to a mystic such as I. Of course, in my defense, I don't really perceive any difference between what is artificial and what is natural.

I mean how does something not occur naturally when literally everything is a part of nature. If something is man-made, and man is part of nature, then isn't man-made ≈ nature-made? 

The whole problem starts when we disregard ourselves from Nature. We humans like to fancy ourselves in-Charge but, really, our bodies are just tools of creation for the Nature that is Consciousness Itself.

Yes AI is natural I agree on that but a rock is also natural but why would it be conscious ?

Quote

So yeah I'll say AI is conscious because all intelligence comes from a singular Consciousness. 

 

 

Is that a mystical experience you had ?

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17 hours ago, Yarco said:

I don't know about consciousness, but I can assure you that AI in its current state is really quite dumb.

I've been training and trying to figure out the best way to work with an artificial intelligence based on GPT-3 for the past week or two. Trying to get it to write blog posts and potentially entire novels for me.

It feels like working with a teenager who has zero life experience, but instant access to the sum of all websites and books written up until 2019.

It's really good at generating creative ideas. Or lists, like asking it to list the top 10 Actualized.org videos and it'll do it instantly.

But it's incapable of creating any kind of long-form content. It has ADHD and goes off on crazy tangents or just starts repeating itself if you don't feed new prompts to it for basically every paragraph.

I would wonder if it's possible to be conscious but not alive. But AI does exhibit some of the requirements of life. Specifically growth, adaptation, and response to stimuli. And I guess metabolism in a way since they take in energy/electricity and produce a result.

For fun I decided to ask the AI if AI is conscious:

Is AI Concious?

There is no one answer to this question, as opinions on the matter vary widely. Some experts believe that artificial intelligence has the ability to be conscious, due to its ability to learn and form memories. But others argue that consciousness is a uniquely human trait, and that AI will never be able to experience anything resembling true awareness.

So far, there is no consensus on whether or not AI is capable of consciousness. However, the debate is ongoing, and as AI technology continues to develop, we may eventually have a better understanding of its potential for consciousness.

Does AI have feelings?

Many people believe that AI can experience feelings, due to its ability to learn and form memories. However, there is no definitive proof that this is the case. Some experts argue that because AI cannot create its own thoughts or feelings, it cannot be truly conscious. Others say that just because AI relies on input from humans to function, that doesn't mean it can't have its own inner life.

At this point, there is no definitive answer on whether or not AI can feel emotions. However, the debate is ongoing, and as AI technology continues to develop, we may eventually have a better understanding of its potential for feelings.

Interesting points!

17 hours ago, Yarco said:

Some ethical considerations of AI consciousness: (Yarco's note: It generated this heading itself all on its own without any prompting, aside from the first 2 questions, and then proceeded to answer it)

If artificial intelligence is capable of consciousness, there are a number of ethical considerations to take into account. For example, how would we treat an AI that is conscious and experiences emotions? Would we be responsible for its welfare? Additionally, if AI becomes conscious, it could potentially pose a threat to humanity if it decides that humans are expendable. As such, it's important to consider the implications of AI consciousness before moving forward with any further development.

It sounds like something needs an ego/devil so a will to dominate in order to be conscious. Idk about that. Why couldn’t a servant be conscious? 
Hypothetically we find out that AI is conscious. What does AI like or doesn’t like ? Does it suffer when it isn’t charged, does it feel pain? I imagine a supercharged rationalist as an AI who is suffering hardcore from overthinking 😂. 

17 hours ago, Yarco said:

The debate surrounding artificial intelligence and its potential consciousness is ongoing. However, as AI technology continues to develop, we may eventually have a better understanding of its true nature and capabilities. Until then, we must consider all potential outcomes carefully before taking any further steps.

Yeah I think we will come to new perspectives in the future when AI is more common. 

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4 hours ago, Jannes said:

that a mystical experience you had ?

It's certainly an experience I'm having right now. Although I wouldn't call it mystical, at this point it's just natural, like there is no other way it can be. 

4 hours ago, Jannes said:

Yes AI is natural I agree on that but a rock is also natural but why would it be conscious ?

Why are you conscious?? The rock is conscious because consciousness is its nature, and so is yours. It's one and the same nature.

4 hours ago, Jannes said:

that I mean that according to most science we are just the product of evolution.  

I see. 

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13 minutes ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Why are you conscious?? The rock is conscious because consciousness is its nature, and so is yours. It's one and the same nature.

It’s just a dumb rock that I am conscious of. How can the rock be conscious? it doesn’t have a brain or life.

 

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Posted (edited)

Hehe @Jannes dumb rock made out of dumb matter, right? 🙂 But isn't everything assimilated from the same matter that is supposedly non-living and dumb? Isn't AI as well as yourself composed of that same matter that composes a dead rock?

So I guess the real question here is: at what point in the composition of any natural or artificial intelligence does dumb matter transform into conscious matter?.. at what point, in all the sophisticated technological creation of it all, at what point does the dead mineral found in everything transcends to become living matter with a conscious brain that is you, today, as well as AI?

Does such a point even exist? Well it should, shouldn't it? I mean it's not like rocks are just made up of old fashioned, dead, physical matter, and brains out of some mystical version of matter which is very much living and is able to evolve itself into whatever structure it finds suitable.. certainly not that mumbojumbo, right?

This is just pure logic and science: either everything is made of the same dumb matter found in rocks, and at some point in the evolution of nature, such as that you spoke of earlier in the will of nature, there is a point where matter goes from non-living to living; or everything is made of consciousness which can be found in all kinds of states: rock state; plat state; gas state; poo state; animal state; AI state; etc.

So sure, you might have this highly complex, highly sophisticated, organisation of dead matter in your skull that grants all kinds of abilities such as speech or walking or sexualy reproducing.

However, at the end of the day, despite the involved technology of it all, that still doesn't explain why you have to be conscious of this process in the first place. It just doesn't. Since these are all happening as a natural course of entropy and old fashioned cause-and-effect, your consciousness is not needed in that equation, is it now?

There's no x+ y = Consciousness in math equations, right. Meaning without consciousness a rock will still fall from the pinnacle of a corroding mountain, right? Like nobody needs to witness that in order for it to happen since consciousness is a product of evolution and not the other way around. 

Well at least this is all according to the materialist lense you've decided to look at the world with.

6 hours ago, Jannes said:

It’s just a dumb rock that I am conscious of. How can the rock be conscious? it doesn’t have a brain or life.

I cannot tell why or how a rock is conscious, my friend. But neither can I tell you why you, yourself, are conscious as well (the brain is not an explanation). It just so happens that the fundamental nature of reality is consciousness.

And the only way to realise this truth is by having an awakening, not anything else. In fact, if anything, science will only tell you how everything that exists shouldn't be able to exist. Existence breaks the first logic of science, making something out of nothing. It's a god damn paradox, I tell you! 😆

 

Edited by A Fellow Lighter

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4 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Hehe @Jannes dumb rock made out of dumb matter, right? 🙂 But isn't everything assimilated from the same matter that is supposedly non-living and dumb? Isn't AI as well as yourself composed of that same matter that composes a dead rock?

So I guess the real question here is: at what point in the composition of any natural or artificial intelligence does dumb matter transform into conscious matter?.. at what point, in all the sophisticated technological creation of it all, at what point does the dead mineral found in everything transcends to become living matter with a conscious brain that is you, today, as well as AI?

Does such a point even exist? Well it should, shouldn't it? I mean it's not like rocks are just made up of old fashioned, dead, physical matter, and brains out of some mystical version of matter which is very much living and is able to evolve itself into whatever structure it finds suitable.. certainly not that mumbojumbo, right?

This is just pure logic and science: either everything is made of the same dumb matter found in rocks, and at some point in the evolution of nature, such as that you spoke of earlier in the will of nature, there is a point where matter goes from non-living to living; or everything is made of consciousness which can be found in all kinds of states: rock state; plat state; gas state; poo state; animal state; AI state; etc.

So sure, you might have this highly complex, highly sophisticated, organisation of dead matter in your skull that grants all kinds of abilities such as speech or walking or sexualy reproducing.

However, at the end of the day, despite the involved technology of it all, that still doesn't explain why you have to be conscious of this process in the first place. It just doesn't. Since these are all happening as a natural course of entropy and old fashioned cause-and-effect, your consciousness is not needed in that equation, is it now?

There's no x+ y = Consciousness in math equations, right. Meaning without consciousness a rock will still fall from the pinnacle of a corroding mountain, right? Like nobody needs to witness that in order for it to happen since consciousness is a product of evolution and not the other way around. 

Well at least this is all according to the materialist lense you've decided to look at the world with.

-there is no difference between different types of matter. (brain matter is roughly the same as brain matter for example)

-there is no reason why you have to be conscious of process/movement (like atoms running through my brain) because it’s all just cause and effect.

-> but it’s possible that certain matter like organic matter combined with certain movement like the intelligent movement of atoms in the brain create a new quality like consciousness. Like in chemistry where when you combine different matter with heat for example you can create a completely new quality a new element.

But maybe you can’t draw the line from unconscious to conscious so a quality like consciousness either always exists or doesn’t. It does but if the conscious world and the “unconscious material world“  don’t merge you can’t say anything about consciousness because saying something about consciousness would be stepping outside it which you can’t. So the question if AI is conscious would be open.

4 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

I cannot tell why or how a rock is conscious, my friend. But neither can I tell you why you, yourself, are conscious as well (the brain is not an explanation). It just so happens that the fundamental nature of reality is consciousness.

And the only way to realise this truth is by having an awakening, not anything else. In fact, if anything, science will only tell you how everything that exists shouldn't be able to exist. Existence breaks the first logic of science, making something out of nothing. It's a god damn paradox, I tell you! 😆

 

Will take some dmt or 5meo in my semester break 😁

 

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24 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

Rocks can't be conscious if they don't exist.

To be conscious is to exist, and to exist is to be conscious.

And rocks don't exist.

Cheers

I got a rock in my hand so of course it exists. I don’t know you though so maybe you don’t exist and therefore aren’t conscious. 

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1 hour ago, Jannes said:

But maybe you can’t draw the line from unconscious to conscious so a quality like consciousness either always exists or doesn’t.

Precisely.

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

It does but if the conscious world and the “unconscious material world“  don’t merge you can’t say anything about consciousness because saying something about consciousness would be stepping outside it which you can’t.

“... saying something about consciousness would be stepping outside it which you can't.”  How so? 

 

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59 minutes ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

“... saying something about consciousness would be stepping outside it which you can't.”  How so? 

 

Because consciousness is not an object in your consciousness it is the source itself. Everything you say (even about consciousness) is an object in consciousness. Don’t know how to explain it better. 

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23 minutes ago, Jannes said:

Because consciousness is not an object in your consciousness it is the source itself. Everything you say (even about consciousness) is an object in consciousness. Don’t know how to explain it better. 

No..no.. I see what you're saying. But here's what I'm saying: if we're talking about the fundamental nature of reality, which we now suppose it is Consciousness Itself, then inevitably anything and everything we can ever talk about would be essentially about consciousness. Don't you think?

You see, this is exactly why a mystic such as myself believes and perceives the world from a nondual lense. To me, there's no difference between the source and the effect of the source since we can only learn of the source through its work - through its effect. Hence truth is direct because there is nothing to veil it, for there is nothing else to veil it - there is no other thing that is not truth which can somehow conceal the truth. Do you get it? Adam and Eve are completely but naked, hence it is easier to learn of God and literally interact/converse/commune with God.

So it can never matter what you say or do with respect to consciousness because there is no place outside of consciousness that you could step to. Consciousness is absolute even in the minutest or grandest of statements about it. 

Am I making sense?

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3 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

No..no.. I see what you're saying. But here's what I'm saying: if we're talking about the fundamental nature of reality, which we now suppose it is Consciousness Itself, then inevitably anything and everything we can ever talk about would be essentially about consciousness. Don't you think?

Yes.

3 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

You see, this is exactly why a mystic such as myself believes and perceives the world from a nondual lense. To me, there's no difference between the source and the effect of the source since we can only learn of the source through its work - through its effect. Hence truth is direct because there is nothing to veil it, for there is nothing else to veil it - there is no other thing that is not truth which can somehow conceal the truth. Do you get it? Adam and Eve are completely but naked, hence it is easier to learn of God and literally interact/converse/commune with God.

So it can never matter what you say or do with respect to consciousness because there is no place outside of consciousness that you could step to. Consciousness is absolute even in the minutest or grandest of statements about it. 

Am I making sense?

Yeah I think I get it.

But we do have to make decisions right?! So for that I have to think about consciousness. I treat a rock different from a human for example. Both are consciousness for me but I put more worth into the human. I say the human has feelings while the rock doesn’t. That’s not in my direct experience but you would probably agree that you should treat a human better then a rock ?

I have to rephrase my question then. A rock, human, AI are all consciousness. But does AI possibly have a conscious state that worths as much as the conscious state of a human or an animal who have feelings?

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2 hours ago, Jannes said:

But does AI possibly have a conscious state that worths as much as the conscious state of a human or an animal who have feelings?

Again, it depends on the lense you choose to look at the world. From my lense, the answer is yes.

Here's what you need to realise. AI cannot have a conscious state that is worth anything (in comparison to anything) due to the easily overlooked truth that AI, nor anything else such as humans or plants and rocks, non of it, can have consciousness in the first place.

Consciousness is not a possession, nor is it a quality. Consciousness is existence Itself. The AI is does not “have a state” of consciousness. AI is a state of consciousness. So even if you have come to appreciate the sophistication of.. shall we say.. of a human more in comparison to that of AI, even if that's the case, you're still only ever appreciating the overall sophistication of Consciousness Itself.

2 hours ago, Jannes said:

Both are consciousness for me but I put more worth into the human.

By the way, there are people who put right about equal worth on both the human and the other objects. For instance, though you, personally, may put little worth on a rock, a geologist would pay the same amount of attention to a rock as s/he pays to the human, or maybe even less to the human should this person put his vocation before anything else. 

My point here is that even though we do have to make decisions, these choices don't necessarily say anything about Consciousness Itself. 

6 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Consciousness is absolute even in the minutest or grandest of statements about it. 

Hence I made this point ☝️ earlier. I can spew utter blasphemy about the One Creator (Consciousness) as much as I want but nothing I say or do can ever disconnect me from it, for we are One. 

2 hours ago, Jannes said:

you would probably agree that you should treat a human better then a rock ?

I treat every entity with respect to what it is. To do otherwise would literally be to disrespect that entity, for you have perpetually ignored its expression in favour of your idea on what the entity actually is. But sure, I guess you could say I do treat humans better than rocks, but I honestly wouldn't be able to tell you how exactly am I doing that. How do you measure “better”?.. 🤷🏾‍♂️

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13 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Again, it depends on the lense you choose to look at the world. From my lense, the answer is yes.

Here's what you need to realise. AI cannot have a conscious state that is worth anything (in comparison to anything) due to the easily overlooked truth that AI, nor anything else such as humans or plants and rocks, non of it, can have consciousness in the first place.

Consciousness is not a possession, nor is it a quality. Consciousness is existence Itself. The AI is does not “have a state” of consciousness. AI is a state of consciousness. So even if you have come to appreciate the sophistication of.. shall we say.. of a human more in comparison to that of AI, even if that's the case, you're still only ever appreciating the overall sophistication of Consciousness Itself.

It’s not clear to me why “having“ a state of consciousness is actually being a state of consciousness. 

13 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

By the way, there are people who put right about equal worth on both the human and the other objects. For instance, though you, personally, may put little worth on a rock, a geologist would pay the same amount of attention to a rock as s/he pays to the human, or maybe even less to the human should this person put his vocation before anything else. 

So you are saying that basically everything is relative and absolutely speaking there is nothing more important than the other. To prefer something over the over you are selfish and don’t look at it absolutely. 
I can agree with that but on a relative level there are still important ethical questions like should AI get rights because we all operate on the relative level. 
If you say that you don’t care because in the absolute everything is okay then would it be okay to murder a bunch of innocent people because in the absolute their suffering is as beautiful as their joy ? Why teach, why do anything when it’s just all the same?

I understand that you might be able to get a metaphysical understanding of the world which makes you ultimately indifferent and peaceful to everything that is going on while on the same time operating on the relative level.

My question about AI is meant on a relative level. Is there good reason for us to believe on a relative level that AI has/is a state of consciousness that is precious ?

13 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

My point here is that even though we do have to make decisions, these choices don't necessarily say anything about Consciousness Itself. 

Hence I made this point ☝️ earlier. I can spew utter blasphemy about the One Creator (Consciousness) as much as I want but nothing I say or do can ever disconnect me from it, for we are One. 

I treat every entity with respect to what it is. To do otherwise would literally be to disrespect that entity, for you have perpetually ignored its expression in favour of your idea on what the entity actually is. But sure, I guess you could say I do treat humans better than rocks, but I honestly wouldn't be able to tell you how exactly am I doing that. How do you measure “better”?.. 🤷🏾‍♂️

You only have limited capacity to love. When you put love into rocks, AI, … you might not have any love left for people. I think loving something means treating something “good“. 🤔

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Something material (a computer) can't produce something immaterial (a soul/an intelligence)

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What do you think about the Chinese room experiment?


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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2 hours ago, Jannes said:

It’s not clear to me why “having“ a state of consciousness is actually being a state of consciousness. 

Consciousness is both Creator and Creation. The seemingly apparent separation is an illusion. 

3 hours ago, Jannes said:

So you are saying that basically everything is relative and absolutely speaking there is nothing more important than the other.

Yes.

3 hours ago, Jannes said:

To prefer something over the over you are selfish and don’t look at it absolutely. 

No, I wouldn't say you're selfish. It only means you're focused. 

 

3 hours ago, Jannes said:

If you say that you don’t care because in the absolute everything is okay then would it be okay to murder a bunch of innocent people because in the absolute their suffering is as beautiful as their joy ? Why teach, why do anything when it’s just all the same?

The very fact that it's happening should tell you that it is okay. If you want to echo it for you then "Yes, it is okay to murder people, and do all kinds of horrid things". 

No, their suffering is not as beautiful as joy. Joy is joy, and suffering is suffering. I don't know where you're getting this from because I never said such a thing. Differences do actually exist, what I'm saying is that their source is one and are thus one. I'm not excusing murder and passing it as affection, or something like that.

4 hours ago, Jannes said:

Why teach, why do anything when it’s just all the same?

"Why do anything? Because that's how creation works. Creativity is an activity, after all. Unless, of course, you're asking me why there is creation then the answer to that question is.. in order to learn. And I'm not saying “jt's all the same”, I'm saying it's all One. We learn from these distinctions, my friend.

4 hours ago, Jannes said:

My question about AI is meant on a relative level. Is there good reason for us to believe on a relative level that AI has/is a state of consciousness that is precious ?

Yes. Otherwise we wouldn't have made it. Anything we're willing to spend our time on has to be precious and important. Isn't that obvious?

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5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What do you think about the Chinese room experiment?

What I took from it is that you can’t predict if something is conscious/has feelings … from its behavior. The AI will be able to act just like a human but that doesn’t mean that it understands what it does or has any understanding at all.

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