ardacigin

If you are suffering, then 'no-self' & Truth is NOT understood!

114 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, kieranperez said:

I'll be at Great Vow Zen Monastery. 80 or miles Northwest of Portland.

That's only about an hour and a half away according to google maps... If they are letting visitors come I would really love making a trip to come meetup. 

2 hours ago, kieranperez said:

Have you met Peter? I've met a lot of enlightened guys and teachers at this point and the closest guy one I know that's similar to Peter is my root Zen teacher is Doshin Roshi. They're both enneagram 8's (I like intense tough masculine teachers that have fucking balls and don't pussyfoot around). Even then though, Peter is kinda his own thing. That dude doesn't seem to have a feminine bone in his body. An old school man's man. I remember being around him and he has that same "IT factor" thing I came across when I've met some of the best athletes on the planet that I don't see in any of the other very enlightened guys and gals I've gotten to know quite well personally. I don't want mythologize him like it has been done on this forum because he's also just another dude. 

I have met Peter, multiple times. I ended up doing the 2 week CI last fall. It was incredible and really set the foundation for how my time at MAPLE has been. And yes, Peter has an insane presence. During one of his q&a sessions he ended up just no talking for like 25 mins or so transmitting in silence... Still processing. I remember asking him about the fear of death and he turned to me, looked me square in the eyes and said "You need to understand - You will die." and finished the question. But what was most profound was with that single sentence, he seemed to cut through this part of the mind that couldn't believe in its own inhalation, as though I wasn't really convinced one day would be it. Since then my relationship to death has subtlety but significantly changed.

Yeah, Peter is the real deal. 

2 hours ago, kieranperez said:

Sorry seems like a guy that has a strong intense presence to him. Probably all the effect of all that Rinzai training with Harada Roshi. 

Yes. Apparently Harada Roshi has been referred to as the "Nuclear Reactor" of Zen because of his energy... LOL. 

Soryu is as masculine as Peter, as funny as Peter, but I suppose because he's almost 30 year younger, there's an energy about Soryu I didn't experience with Peter. There's also a compassionate wrathfulness about Soryu. He REALLY cares about the destruction of life on the planet, yet also understands the Absolute and is completely unafraid of death, and the destruction of life on the planet. There's been recent controversies around how Soryu teaches regarding existential risk and his "angry" communication style. Many people can't psychologically handle how he dismantles worldviews and shows all of the ways we're bullshitting ourselves. From what I understand, I've only experienced a fraction of what Soryu has to offer in terms of the intensity. Hoping he finds a way to teach without holding back. 

2 hours ago, kieranperez said:

It's good you recognize that. Nobody is ever going to be perfect. Yes, in one sense everything is already perfect and yada yada yada but it really is good to see everyone, no matter how enlightened, will always fall short of idealistic expectations. Enlightened people can still be deluded in some things. Reconciling that by noticing that and yet still seeing the perfection is where the really humor lies. And you're working with a great Zen teacher, and a profound humor is one of the core aspects of truly of an ever deepening Zen practice. 

From what I'm reading, you'd probably really like Soryu. Technically though, he never received transmission from Harada so cannot formally teach Zen. However, the training structure, style, and vibe is very Zen influenced. 

2 hours ago, kieranperez said:

Yeah, that aspect can be incredibly healing. My first intensive/retreat was with Peter and Brendan down in Texas and the example they set regarding honesty and integrity just blew me away because at every turn I paid close attention and saw that their word and actions always seemed to match and just stunned me. It was like "these guys aren't lying to me!" And to really see that for what it is is great. By the end of the intensive I was just crying and crying because I finally found what it was I was looking for. A bunch of insane fucking people that were genuinely going for what's true and a more powerful and healthy way of living and experiencing self and life.

Same thing at all the other retreats I've been to. I'd just find myself in prayer/gratitude for finally finding this and would just be in tears. The unseeable ever-present sacredness arising out of nowhere. 

I will say your enthusiasm for how your experience is going gives some reassurance to my incredible fear, doubt, and skepticism regarding me truly going into this time at the monastery because if all goes well and it's a good fit I will try and stay or see what I can do to deepen this path even further. 

Yeah man super excited to hear you're pursuing the monastic path. It's truly incredible. It's good that you've seen what a healthy community looks like and therefore can determine whether Great Vow is a good fit for long term training. I imagine it will be though; I've heard nothing but good things. 

From what I know of you, yeah your path will go deep entering into an intensive training environment. God speed brother. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Consilience said:

That's only about an hour and a half away according to google maps... If they are letting visitors come I would really love making a trip to come meetup. 

Yeah man come through. 

4 hours ago, Consilience said:

I ended up doing the 2 week CI last fall.

I almost ended up coming out to that. 

4 hours ago, Consilience said:

I remember asking him about the fear of death and he turned to me, looked me square in the eyes and said "You need to understand - You will die."

Yeah lol sounds about right. I had a similar moment when I finally decided to just ask him, 'why are you so much more conscious than everyone else on this path?' He just looked at me and gave that smile and said, "a lot of work. I was a fanatic." It wasn't really the answer that penetrated it was just the clarity and directness from which he spoke that really sank in. After that I got who and letter had a direct consciousness into what. 

4 hours ago, Consilience said:

But what was most profound was with that single sentence, he seemed to cut through this part of the mind that couldn't believe in its own inhalation, as though I wasn't really convinced one day would be it.

Yep.

4 hours ago, Consilience said:

Yes. Apparently Harada Roshi has been referred to as the "Nuclear Reactor" of Zen because of his energy... LOL. 

My root Zen teacher Doshin Roshi of Integral Zen is like that. I could probably write a whole memoir on the unique relationship I have with him but yeah his transmission (if he really puts it out there - and I always know when he is or isn't and why he doesn't tend to with me) can really blow me out the water. I remember the first time I sat with him the whole floor turned purple and I was having these full on visions and saw fractals on the floor and my only internal talk was, "holy shit this shit is real! Fuuuuuuck" hahahaha 

The most powerful transmission I ever experienced though was with Jan Esmann who gave direct Shaktipat (not energy transmission, actual Shaktipat) and that just blew my mind. One thing to read about this stuff. It's another thing to really be in it.

4 hours ago, Consilience said:

Soryu is as masculine as Peter, as funny as Peter, but I suppose because he's almost 30 year younger, there's an energy about Soryu I didn't experience with Peter

The thing is, Peter doesn't put any energy transmission out there. He used to but he stopped in the 90s. His students back then just got hooked to that and he saw they were getting distracted but all that and so he decided to not put it out there anymore. Peter just has an intensity to him that I don't attribute to the gross, subtle, or causal transmission states. I've only seen it in a few people like Michael Jordan and what not. It's not like Shakti or anything like that. I just kind of lump it with that whole "IT factor" thing. Who knows though. He did joke about how he'd go up to students and go like, "yeah I could get you stoned," lol

Many of the people that have studied with Peter for a long time though suspect, myself included, that he might have something akin to asbergers or something. There's some basic wiring thing regarding empathy and connection that he just doesn't have. From what I've seen of Soryu from afar he doesn't strike me as that. 

4 hours ago, Consilience said:

He REALLY cares about the destruction of life on the planet, yet also understands the Absolute and is completely unafraid of death, and the destruction of life on the planet. There's been recent controversies around how Soryu teaches regarding existential risk and his "angry" communication style. Many people can't psychologically handle how he dismantles worldviews and shows all of the ways we're bullshitting ourselves. From what I understand, I've only experienced a fraction of what Soryu has to offer in terms of the intensity. Hoping he finds a way to teach without holding back. 

Yeah, I get what people might have that view. He has to be careful though that care for the destruction of life as you put it doesn't degrade into an agenda as that can easily slide that community into becoming a kind of cult. That requires some careful vigilance. 

4 hours ago, Consilience said:

From what I'm reading, you'd probably really like Soryu. Technically though, he never received transmission from Harada so cannot formally teach Zen. However, the training structure, style, and vibe is very Zen influenced. 

Yeah, I imagine I would. I don't see myself there though as it wouldn't work out logistically. That requires having a certain kind of career that allows you to work remotely and I definitely don't have that. Seems to work great though for people that do have that going for them though. 

4 hours ago, Consilience said:

I imagine it will be though; I've heard nothing but good things. 

We'll see. Finding a fit with a teacher is like finding someone you're going to marry. And I certainly am not compatible with A LOT of teachers as not a lot of teachers can really handle someone like me. I generally can recognize pretty quick compatibility. Great Vow is very Green so it'll be interesting how well I mesh with them and what kind of trouble I might cause lol 

4 hours ago, Consilience said:

God speed brother. 

Back at you. 

Are you still at MAPLE or are you dipping? What's your path looking like?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@kieranperez @Consilience

What is the zen or monastic approach to something like the example below?

I've been reflecting on some early life and generational trauma and i've found some beliefs that I think hold a lot of space or energy in mind.

For example, I have an intense fear of shitting myself or even farting loud in public. I've noticed that i'm always anxious of this in the back of my mind. Not exactly sure how to resolve it, but it makes sense why this kind of belief would be so impactful. 

Do these kinds of beliefs just get resolved over time with practice? Have you guys dealt with this kind of trauma or does this kind of specific stuff get addressed by the monks? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Doesn't make sense...

To be true to yourself is to acknowledge your suffering.

Even if you God-realized, the flesh still suffers. 

Edited by SgtPepper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@kieranperez @Consilience

What is the zen or monastic approach to something like the example below?

I've been reflecting on some early life and generational trauma and i've found some beliefs that I think hold a lot of space or energy in mind.

For example, I have an intense fear of shitting myself or even farting loud in public. I've noticed that i'm always anxious of this in the back of my mind. Not exactly sure how to resolve it, but it makes sense why this kind of belief would be so impactful

Do these kinds of beliefs just get resolved over time with practice? Have you guys dealt with this kind of trauma or does this kind of specific stuff get addressed by the monks? 

I know you're asking them something different, but just as an aside, you should be triumphant that you've been able to identify such a thing, because that's where the rubber meets the road in spiritual development. Any recurring intense fear, if it's of something you can't control anyway, is something you're repressing the underlying sensations of, which is concurrent with hiding something from yourself: the fact that you can't control whether it happens or not, and you're not even going to ultimately be harmed if it were to actually happen anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@The0Self Thanks. Yeah it really does feel significant.

I remember when my grandma first shamed me for shitting on the floor as a baby. I even felt a similar sensation on psychidelics before, but it's only recently hit me that 24/7 a part of my mind is working OT to make sure I don't shit shit myself lol. 

I've been contemplating who would I be if I were the kind of guy who had 0 trauma around shitting and noticed some shifts, but I'm still not sure how to fully resolve it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

@Raptorsin7 Go to therapy. 

Zen and awakening has nothing to do about healing generational trauma. 

Why do people want to awaken and practice zen?

And the statement that awakening has nothing do with trauma is almost certainly nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

And the statement that awakening has nothing do with trauma is almost certainly nonsense.

Go talk to actual Roshi’s and tell them about your assumption/belief that Zen fundamentally deals with healing and they will tell you to your face that that’s a bullshit assumption. It’s not true. Don’t conflate awakening with healing. There’s a reason Ken Wilber for example makes the distinction between “Cleaning Up” (therapy, trauma work, etc.) and “Waking Up”. Because they’re not the same. There may be some interaction between the two different processes that influence each other but that doesn’t mean that that’s what they’re about. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Why do people want to awaken and practice zen?

There is no ultimate answer to this question as there’s no one way to. I wouldn’t lump someone that pursues awakening that grew up in a traditional Japanese culture than those that pursued it back in the 70s in America. Everybody’s path is different and yet I imagine you can find some similarities among a lot of different practitioners at the same time. You can make large generalizations by saying things like “suffering” or “wanting to know what’s true” but that hardly answers anything when you get down to the core of what motivates peoples search.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

But I could be wrong.

Well you are. Go meet some real Zen masters and talk to them rather than just sit around by yourself with your comfortable assumptions. 

You don’t know that you don’t know what you’re talking about. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, kieranperez said:

Well you are. Go meet some real Zen masters and talk to them rather than just sit around by yourself with your comfortable assumptions. 

You don’t know that you don’t know what you’re talking about. 

Fair enough, I could be wrong.

But if you are studying with masters that are still displaying autistic traits like aspergers then I would say that you don't know what you're talking about either. In my book you cannot be a master and autistic.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Why do people want to awaken

Curiosity.

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

and practice zen?

Good marketing for a fairly good product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Curiosity.

Curious about what?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Gesundheit2 said:

@Raptorsin7 That's the question.

I think they are motivated by dissatisfaction with life, and they have an unconscious drive to seek the divine and that's where spiritual seeking starts.

If someone was satisfied and actively engaged with life and their pursuits I don't see why they would be seekers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Fair enough, I could be wrong.

But if you are studying with masters that are still displaying autistic traits like aspergers then I would say that you don't know what you're talking about either. In my book you cannot be a master and autistic.

 

You are.

The truth doesn’t have to conform to what you think. I know many people that have had enlightenment experiences at this point and they still have traumas, shadows, and other issues. That’s the reality. Enlightenment is about what’s already true. Enlightened people have started cults, killed people, and also done all the great things people tend to associate them as in their mind and also be totally ordinary people you’d never expect anything from. These are just your projections and assumptions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think they are motivated by dissatisfaction with life, and they have an unconscious drive to seek the divine and that's where spiritual seeking starts.

Makes sense. But then again, there are many more dissatisfied people who never go down that path even though it's right in front of them.

11 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

If someone was satisfied and actively engaged with life and their pursuits I don't see why they would be seekers. 

My very first direct contact with the emptiness of life was right after I finished the 9th grade. I was so eager to come back home and play video games for the whole summer. At least that's how I was thinking for the whole time before that. Then, to my surprise, 15 minutes in, and I'm bored. It all felt pointless. All the waiting and the joy I was anticipating, it just felt empty, completely devoid.

Then I became serious about religion, until I got here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

@kieranperez Then what you're seeking and what i'm seeking are different.

If you are autistic and then at the end of your path you are still autistic then imo that's a bit retarded. But to each their own.

What does success look like for you on the path? Why are you interested in going to a monastery or seeking enlightenment?

Edited by Raptorsin7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now