RMQualtrough

Does localized consciousness (the self) dissolve naturally with time?

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As physical matter begins to fall apart through time, is the same true of localized forms of consciousness? Does the self undergo some form of entropy?

AKA when material forms with localized experience first come into being, the separation is at its most intense, and the bonds weaken with time until the structure falls apart?

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Remember it's not real so it doesn't really dissolve, that's just a metaphor. 

It can be recognized that the self structure simply does not exist. And this can feel like an energetic shift away from self-centered identification.


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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@VeganAwake Well, even considering everything to be one mind without boundary, there is still multiplicity in experience.

One experience, even some interaction between atoms, can be considered to be a self if there is indeed experience there.

To me, how I am seeing this, is that much as cells came together to work as one unit, various conscious experiences have merged into that one unit also.

Combination problem suggests the smaller experiences vanish but I don't believe they do. The hemisphere split surgery is a good indicator for this idea in my opinion.

Taking standard Eastern philosophy like Zen, then describing the workings of consciousness within the material world with a model of Panpsychism, is how I believe this to be working.

When localized within a dream that localization adheres to the dream. So here, matter etc. has relation to the contents of consciousness.

There is God's mind, and ego minds. And manifestations that are I think not even being observed but I'm not sure about this aspect.

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4 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

localized forms of consciousness

@RMQualtrough What's that supposed to be?

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4 minutes ago, Tim R said:

@RMQualtrough What's that supposed to be?

It is commonly described by others as a contraction of consciousness. But I don't want to use others words I want to relate my own ideas...

So I would say that:

Wherever there exists an observed, there is observer.

Observer is what we call "I", and I believe it exists as the other side of ALL experience, even if the thing having the experience is not sentient enough to even be aware of the "I" (AKA self-aware).

To be able to have any experience as we do, an appearance of duality must be created. Rupert Spira describes this perfectly, in his beach dream analogy. The moment you see any part of that beach you must be localized somewhere within it.

So wherever there is experience there is localization.

Scale it up the same way evolution took cells to beings made of millions of cells... Simply various ports of localized experience acting seamlessly as a singular separate entity.

That is the idea I am working on.

Edited by RMQualtrough

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The self you are talking about is not something that exists and can be subjected to entropy, it is simply the idea of "should be" that almost every human being develops, adopting models built by others and developing it throughout their lives. it usually gets stronger over time. if there is no "should be" there is no "i" there is nothing, only naked consciousness that never get dissolved

Edited by Breakingthewall

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4 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

As physical matter begins to fall apart through time, is the same true of localized forms of consciousness? Does the self undergo some form of entropy?

AKA when material forms with localized experience first come into being, the separation is at its most intense, and the bonds weaken with time until the structure falls apart?

Sounds like a bunch of unquestioned assumptions to me...

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32 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Sounds like a bunch of unquestioned assumptions to me...

They're questioned and should be considered accurate. The appearance of duality and matter and so on is without any question or doubt.

Other models are confusing but they needn't be.

Edited by RMQualtrough

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@VeganAwake The separate self is Identification to thought, feeling.  Structure is a concept that points to that. When we say that the structure dissolves would be to say that identification  to thought and feeling dissolves.

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4 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

@VeganAwake The separate self is Identification to thought, feeling.  Structure is a concept that points to that. When we say that the structure dissolves would be to say that identification  to thought and feeling dissolves.

Yes, and it's also not a denial or a detachment from thoughts and feelings either.

It's clearly seeing there are conditioned patterns of thinking and feeling due to the assumption of being a separate individual since a young age.(self-centered experience)

And when this is seen within yourself sort of speak, it's also recognized why apparent others act and behave certain ways.

It's awareness but for No One.

It's a disentangling from the socially conditioned sense of self.

 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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6 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Yes, and it's also not a denial or a detachment from thoughts and feelings either.

It arises and is seen for what it is. Without identification to it which is believing that it is me ("it" points to a thought or feeling). And when it's seen for what it is it passes away.

It's not a denial or detachment from all thoughts and feelings. It's just a seeing of the "conditioned pattern" for what it is.

6 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's clearly seeing there are conditioned patterns of thinking and feeling due to the assumption of being a separate individual since a young age.(self-centered experience)

It's a natural process of pre-self -> self-> self-transcendence. 

6 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

And when this is seen within yourself sort of speak, it's also recognized why apparent others act and behave certain ways.

Which brings with it a compassion for others.

6 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's awareness but for No One.

Awareness is the One. It's not like no one is home. It's One that is home.

7 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's a disentangling from the socially conditioned sense of self.

It's more than socially conditioned. It's the survival mechanisms that is at the root of the sense of self.

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27 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

It's more than socially conditioned. It's the survival mechanisms that is at the root of the sense of self.

Yeah, the root of the i is the duality life-death, translate to acceptation-reject by the social nature of the human. It is something innate, genetic, and very difficult to transcend

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19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah, the root of the i is the duality life-death, translate to acceptation-reject by the social nature of the human. It is something innate, genetic, and very difficult to transcend

Have you transcended that?

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28 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

Have you transcended that?

how would you know? it is easy to be deceived. I think I am very close to dissolving the self and in some moments of meditation it happens, or with 5 meo. Self-referring thoughts are few in everyday life and the compulsive need to be in control is low, but there are still barriers. So no, i didn't, or maybe i partially did

 

Edited by Breakingthewall

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20 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

As physical matter begins to fall apart through time, is the same true of localized forms of consciousness? Does the self undergo some form of entropy?

AKA when material forms with localized experience first come into being, the separation is at its most intense, and the bonds weaken with time until the structure falls apart?

If separate physical things fell apart, there’d then be more parts. If the belief in separate things falls apart… non-separation, or wholeness, Truth, already is. 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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28 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

how would you know? it is easy to be deceived. I think I am very close to dissolving the self and in some moments of meditation it happens, or with 5 meo. Self-referring thoughts are few in everyday life and the compulsive need to be in control is low, but there are still barriers. So no, i didn't, or maybe i partially did

Yes, you can't know. You can know whether a shift has happened or not but you cant know if you will be deceived again or not.

May I ask what barriers you're facing?

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21 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

May I ask what barriers you're facing?

the barrier is me, I can't completely abandon myself. in meditation there is some need for control, which is translated into thoughts. Could be silent, but shortly. the need for control is less, but it exists. the desire for survival, the attachment to the body, is great, the need for company too. here we are communicating all the time! . there are many barriers, freeing yourself is really very difficult, don't you think?

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43 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

You can know whether a shift has happen

Even a shift happens, and the ego somehow dissolves and it becomes obvious what you are, or what you are not, there is limitation. you can go much deeper, it's only the begging imo

Edited by Breakingthewall

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6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

the barrier is me, I can't completely abandon myself. in meditation there is some need for control, which is translated into thoughts. Could be silent, but shortly. the need for control is less, but it exists. the desire for survival, the attachment to the body, is great, the need for company too. here we are communicating all the time! . there are many barriers, freeing yourself is really very difficult, don't you think?

So there hasn't been an awakening into no-self?

Seeing it as very difficult may make it difficult. If we see it as a process and that awakening will happen whenever you are ready for it to happen might dissolve the need to control.

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