What I dislike about Tony Parsons and Jim Newman.

[traveler]

I dislike that Tony Parsons, Jim Newman and the rest of the so called radical non dualists focuses on the individual even though it doesn't exist.

The whole point in the message is that there is nothing here for the individual, but why all the talk about this non existent individual and what it does in it's illusory dream then? This seems to create more tension than it releases, it makes it seem like there is someone that needs to be gotten rid off when there isn't. 

When I hear a message from nothingness directed towards me as nothingness it seems to resonate more. It is more direct, less descriptive and more energetic. It doesn't even recognise an individual, it is source talking directly to source with an absolute trust that source hears source. It doesn't need to explain how the individual doesn't exist and how this can't be understood and what not, it just knows that intuitively already.

What I've also noticed with Jim and Tony is that I'm sort of conditioned to reject or not listen to other messages from so called "teachers", because "they" teach personal teachings. Many of the teachers they say teach personal teachings are in my estimation not personal teachings though. The personal pronouns they use aren't directed towards a person but to the underlying essence that is the mystery of all appearances. 

Lil rant 

Lemme hear ur thoughts

[VeganAwake]

The message seems to transcend the idea of a someone liking or disliking anything.

It leaves you empty handed without a leg to stand on. ❤

[PureRogueQ]

Just like everything, without eyes there will be no sight, without tongue there will be no taste, should I gouge my eyes out? 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, traveler said:

 Lemme hear ur thoughts

There is much humor to appreciate, but it’s not radical, it’s subtle. Like how the focus is on the illusion of the individual, not on a nonexistent individual  in a dream or dreaming.  In the same sense there is nothing here for an illusion of an individual to understand, nothing which could be understood.  I could see where that might be intense but an illusion can’t be gotten rid of, like a mirage in a desert can’t be gotten rid of. 

[traveler]

@Nahm

Yea, I know there is something there and that it is so so subtle. Lately I've just been dealing with very heavy intense energy that seem to get more contracted with the message.

 

6 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

The message seems to transcend the idea of a someone liking or disliking anything.

It leaves you empty handed without a leg to stand on. ❤

This is what I'm talking about. What is "it" and who is the "you" that it leaves empty handed? To me that sentence seems directed towards an individual, not God/nothing (whatever you want to call it.) It could be read as being directed towards nothing/God but that is just not what I feel. (Please don't get stuck on the words here, like "directed towards." - Be honest.)

5 hours ago, PureRogueQ said:

Just like everything, without eyes there will be no sight, without tongue there will be no taste, should I gouge my eyes out? 

I'm not sure what you mean.

[Nahm]

@traveler

Express jealousy, crazy as it may sound. It brings alignment to desire, focus, and wanted, and it brings whatever’s ’off’ to the surface, into the light to be burned away. Open the flood gates, release it, Big Love is behind whatever it is, and emotions can be so counter intuitive. Always appreciating what you share btw, and wishing you the absolute best. ?? 

[allislove]

@traveler

I dismissed Jim Newman as a good spiritual teacher at the beginning, when there was the ingrained thinking of separation. Now, I can see the beauty of expressed message in any spiritual teacher. It shouldn't be even a spiritual teacher, a "human", life is the teacher, everything is you. You can appreciate the beauty too. Focus on what you like. Peace.

[mandyjw]

Jim Newman makes all these dismissing statements so patiently, (or not sometimes, which is even funnier), and then every now and then he drops some huge new insight or refers to something so deep, you're like "what just happened?". 

When people focus on one teacher (or a few similar teachers), they often are tempted to turn the teaching into dogma and criticize and reject other different teachings. Naturally this seems to happen with simpler teachings more because they are so clear cut. So even though they are simple and direct the opportunity for us to complicate and misconstrue them ourselves is bigger. Fun. 

7 hours ago, Nahm said:

I could see where that might be intense but an illusion can’t be gotten rid of, like a mirage in a desert can’t be gotten rid of. 

I get the hero's journey confused with Don Quixote sometimes. 

[VeganAwake]

4 hours ago, traveler said:

 

This is what I'm talking about. What is "it" and who is the "you" that it leaves empty handed? To me that sentence seems directed towards an individual, not God/nothing (whatever you want to call it.) It could be read as being directed towards nothing/God but that is just not what I feel. (Please don't get stuck on the words here, like "directed towards." - Be honest.

The words are just expressions used for communication purposes.

The experience of being an individual is ultimately unreal yes, BUT it still feels very real. The same way a mirage in the desert has the ability to keep you walking for water up ahead. The water was ultimately never there, but the thought about getting a cold drink of water soon is felt and experienced in the body right?

Most seekers start with the deep conviction that they are a real separate individual in the body and that with enough diligent practice can one day become whole and complete or experience enlightenment.

Jim and Tony are simply pointing out what is already the case. There never was a separate individual.

"The separation never occurred"

-- A Course in Miracles

[traveler]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

@traveler

Express jealousy, crazy as it may sound. It brings alignment to desire, focus, and wanted, and it brings whatever’s ’off’ to the surface, into the light to be burned away. Open the flood gates, release it, Big Love is behind whatever it is, and emotions can be so counter intuitive. Always appreciating what you share btw, and wishing you the absolute best. ?? 

Just went through the emotional scale thing and I just gotta say, wow.. Thank you so much. 

[Nahm]

@traveler

And now I am infected as well. 

?? 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

The message will apply when one is ready for it. Or not. 

I see Jim and Tony as sort of living koans--the message they speak doesn't give one anything to do or to seek. It makes the mind sort of trip up on itself, and in doing so it may question the erroneous concepts at the core. Or just let go.

The Truth can't be known or spoken. To speak at all is to enter duality. All teachers and teachings therefore have shortcomings because all they have to use is this clunky thing call language, which is inherently dual. Subject and object are required to speak, yet they don't exist.

"The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao."

Also, the sign posts are not the destination. Don't cling to pointers or teachings--instead, look to where they point and see for yourself. 

[allislove]

37 minutes ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

The message will apply when one is ready for it. Or not. 

I see Jim and Tony as sort of living koans--the message they speak doesn't give one anything to do or to seek. It makes the mind sort of trip up on itself, and in doing so it may question the erroneous concepts at the core. Or just let go.

The Truth can't be known or spoken. To speak at all is to enter duality. All teachers and teachings therefore have shortcomings because all they have to use is this clunky thing call language, which is inherently dual. Subject and object are required to speak, yet they don't exist.

"The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao."

Also, the sign posts are not the destination. Don't cling to pointers or teachings--instead, look to where they point and see for yourself. 

?

Glad to see you on the forum. Thank you for all the pointers some time ago. 

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

"The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao."

Also, the sign posts are not the destination. Don't cling to pointers or teachings--instead, look to where they point and see for yourself. 

The Tao that is named is also the Tao.

The signposts, pointers and teachings are also it.

To believe wholeness is somewhere else is duality.

Wholeness is already the case....  a misunderstanding does not constitute real duality.... that's why it's called an illusion ❤

[VeganAwake]

And this really can't be comprehended prior to Awakening.... prior to seeing through the sense of self.

That's because the sense of self always perceives from a subject/object perspective.

It will always project wholeness being somewhere other than here. ❤

[Nahm]

22 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The Tao that is named is also the Tao.

The named is the mother of ten thousand things.

16 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

the sense of self always perceives from a subject/object perspective.

 

[VeganAwake]

20 minutes ago, Nahm said:

The named is the mother of ten thousand things.

 

In other words: The finger-pointing; The space in between; The moon itself and the name moon is all equally the Eternal Tao or wholeness. ❤

[Nahm]

@VeganAwake ?? 

[VeganAwake]

13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@VeganAwake ?? 

The ordinary extraordinary ? ❤