Is disease imagination?

[Gesundheit]

2 hours ago, mandyjw said:

There is no responsible. Responsible implies preceding, coming before. There's no before. You can only be response able. God can only be response able. There's no preceding God. What you are is beyond primordial. 

So we can safely say that God is not infinitely intelligent or loving or powerful. If God can make one mistake, he's not perfect at all. In this light, things like omniscience and omnipotence become silly fictions.

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Thanks serpent for giving us the fruit so that we can say stuff or creation is bad or badly. Otherwise we would have thought everything's good.

Think how annoying this bliss would be.

Wrong. Without the mind you can't think of good or bad. Everything is simply not good, whether with or without the mind.

You think that you're isolating the mind, when in fact it is still running in the background and making projections such as "goodness", "love", "perfection", etc... But these things don't actually exist in direct experience no matter how much you believe they do. They're just by-products of a naive mind that makes projections but can't see that it's making them.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Gesundheit

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

So we can safely say that God is not infinitely intelligent or loving or powerful. If God can make one mistake, he's not perfect at all. In this light, things like omniscience and omnipotence become silly fictions.

You know how when you want to learn a new skill or create a piece of art how you have to just jump in and do it knowing that you'll learn from your mistakes? And sometimes those mistakes and the willingness to make the best of them actually make you aware of some new technique that you wouldn't have discovered otherwise? I'm a glass artist and that's exactly my experience, I've discovered some really shocking things that way. 

Lets ponder three quotes and then consider your statements "You are God." "Man is made in the image of God." "Know thyself" I'm not infinitely intelligent, yet I also am. I absent mindedly put things in my refrigerator that should go there, but I also get brilliant insights out of no where sometimes. I know that my capability to learn is beyond what I can understand right now. I also know that I cannot excel if I don't allow myself to make mistakes. And I know that my mistakes often make the end product better, even if the end product is not actually ever the end product and creation never ends. 

I am a very silly fiction. I mean your intuition is right, but your attitude, will all due respect and love. Sucks.

Signed,

Godamndy (that's my name and God's mixed together. I quite like it, do you like it? 

 

 

[Gesundheit]

10 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Signed,

Godamndy (that's my name and God's mixed together. I quite like it, do you like it?

I don't.

And FYI, God does not need a lawyer. The human, on the other hand, needs a story, apparently.

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

I don't.

And FYI, God does not need a lawyer. The human, on the other hand, needs a story, apparently.

You are no fun whatsoever. 0% fun. This is how we really feel about you though. 

[Gesundheit]

@mandyjw I prefer mean.

[Tanz]

14 hours ago, Forestluv said:

@Tanz I'd say it depends on the disease. In one context, belief systems play a big role in our physiology. Chronic stress and anxiety can create all sorts of psychosomatic conditions and worsen illness / disease like cancer, depression, schizophrenia, heart disease and on and on. Other diseases like cystic fibrosis are inherited as single gene, recessive disease - positive thinking aint gonna help a kid with two mutant alleles. As well, the beliefs and placebos are interesting. Placebos undoubtedly have a statistically significant impact. I think it's foolish that researchers don't investigate the mechanics of placebos, so we can understand and utilize the belief systems that contribute to healing. Yet, I guess that isn't a money maker for pharmaceuticals.

In another context, it's like asking if there is a collective Law of Attraction. Could a culture creative a disease through imagination. What comes to mind are ancient tribal cultures and superstition. They may explain certain illness as evil spirits. Did that imagination attract some form of illness? Or are they totally unrelated? 

Another way to think about it. . . Let's say everyone in our culture agrees that there is a coronavirus causing covid. And everyone gets afraid of it mutating into new forms that are immune to the vaccine. If there was intense collective fear and repetitive thinking of it mutating, would that impact the chances of it mutating? What if every media station focused on the threat of the virus mutating - it consumed 80% of our thoughts and emotions. Would that have an impact? 

I think this is an area that can integrate the physical and metaphysical. For example: intention, entanglement and physical manifestation. 

I believe if we focused on love and how diseases and problems serve us then the virus would morph into how we see it. 

Most of the world sees the environment as a threat.  Looking for evidence of all the things that can harm us creates things that can harm us. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Tanz

[Gesundheit]

4 hours ago, Tanz said:

I believe if we focused on love and how diseases and problems serve us then the virus would morph into how we see it. 

Most of the world sees the environment as a threat.  Looking for evidence of all the things that can harm us creates things that can harm us. 

This belief won't work no matter how much you believe in it. It's like believing that fire won't burn your hand. There are beliefs that can create physical limitations. And there are physical limitations that no belief can break.

[Ananta]

21 hours ago, Tanz said:

What role do you guys think belief systems and disease plays a role?  Can a culture create disease out of just talking about it?  

I talk a lot about this in classes I conduct but I find it interesting how much a role it plays, what are you guy's thoughts on this?

I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis at 21. I fit the predisposition of someone who could get it. It's most prevalent in white, females that live (were raised) north of the equator and a trigger may be a viral illness 5 to 10 years prior to onset of symptoms. I could be the poster child. I had mononucleosis so bad at 15 I couldn't go to school for many weeks. My cousin was diagnosed 3 years after I was also.

For many years I was afraid and took the intramuscular injections they came out with for "disease modification" which didn't seem to help me. After about 15 years I had enough. I stopped everything. I stopped seeing my neurologist except when absolutely necessary, stopped the injections and stopped talking about it. When absolutely necessary we would treat acute symptoms with high dose steriod packs (no longer the IV....I refused).

I can't explain it, but I got better. After awhile I let my neurologist do the first brain MRI in 5 years and compared to my last MRI ...my lesions were shrinking. There were some new areas, but they were small and scattered (not any new lesions) and she said, all in all, it was amazing how it was reversing compared to the last MRI.

That was probably 4 to 6 years ago now. I honestly don't remember, but I also haven't had to go on steroids since about that long ago now too. Occasionally, I might get a limp or a shaky hand but it doesn't last very long, maybe a day or two. Which is nothing really.

I've told this story before on here. I sometimes read a post/thread topic that inspires the story. Otherwise, I really don't think about it and if someone asked me what I think changed the course of this disease I would say I think (I don't know) that I starved it of attention.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Ananta

[Tanz]

10 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

This belief won't work no matter how much you believe in it. It's like believing that fire won't burn your hand. There are beliefs that can create physical limitations. And there are physical limitations that no belief can break.

If you are talking about physical limitations in regard to physiology that is a limitation you are creating yourself.  There have been countless people that have reversed their diseases doing things like meditation, breathwork, yoga, and even prayer. I haven't had any major illnesses and I am generally healthy but I have had dengue before which is like Malaria and I was able to shake it off in 2 days.  Most people take weeks and sometimes months to recover from it, some even die.  

@Ananta Its great to hear your story, its my first time reading it even though you have mentioned it before

Edited December 4, 2020 by Tanz

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Tanz said:

If you are talking about physical limitations in regard to physiology that is a limitation you are creating yourself.  There have been countless people that have reversed their diseases doing things like meditation, breathwork, yoga, and even prayer. I haven't had any major illnesses and I am generally healthy but I have had dengue before which is like Malaria and I was able to shake it off in 2 days.  Most people take weeks and sometimes months to recover from it, some even die.

The question is how do you know that the illnesses were cured by the spiritual practices and not by something else entirely unrelated?

See, you're creating this association without having any evidence for it. Evidence here being double-blinded studies that show how people practicing these things have very high percentage of improvement (like above 90% of the participants) while others who did not practice anything have very low percentage. A low to moderate percentage of healing does not count as evidence, it counts as placebo. And placebo is within the physical limitations, with effects such as slightly improved immune system. Good luck curing ischaemic heart disease or stroke with positive thinking and meditation. It doesn't work like that.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Tanz]

@Gesundheit Wim hoff has proven a lot in the last few years with his breathwork

At the same time, you are putting assumptions of what my original question was framed. Of course, if someone abused their body or if they are 90 years old with heart disease it will take more prayer for them to stay alive.  

My original question was framed on how people draw attention to problems rather than living life.  If all day people were to hear about disease on TV it would create more disease.

In most situations, if a person were to practice mindfulness and meditation properly, they would realize they need to find out how to take better care of themselves and to love themselves better.  That would lead to a whole pattern of thoughts and behavior that would improve their lives.  Such as taking care of their society, their loved ones, choose a job they love etc etc.  

Instead of throwing your scientific double-blinded study statement, you can ask me what my question is about or how did I heal myself in more detail.  You arent interested in finding out the truth, rather some study which you will never know its true unless you try for yourself.  

I have a graduate-level degree in health science and to be honest, it would be impossible to run a controlled study on long-term benefits of something like meditation because the very nature of meditation is to strip down bullshit and realize you are actually the placebo.  Furthermore you cant double blind a participant that is told to meditate. Its not like taking a sugar pill which can be masked as something else.  

I have studied the placebo effect and even when a researcher knows what the pill is, the data gets skewed... in order to have the most thorough study, a triple-blind study where the patient and the researcher do not know what the pill is.  Blind studies only work when a participant is ingesting something like medicine, supplement, food.  

[Gesundheit]

@Tanz

Dude, I honestly don't understand the way you're approaching this whole thing. It just sounds naive.

If what you're saying is true, i.e. Law of Attraction, then we should never get ill unless we think about diseases. You'll say that it's not just thinking about diseases exclusively, but it's actually the negative thoughts in general that cause us all these diseases. But then what about the congenital diseases that initiate early in life during pregnancy? You may say that it's because of the parents and their negative thinking that they caused disease to their fetus. But then after the baby is born, how come it doesn't heal automatically? Since babies don't have negative thoughts, they should be able to heal automatically right after birth and separation from their mothers. Why do they remain physically ill? They aren't doing anything "wrong" or "unspiritual". Furthermore, why do babies still get ill when they do no negative thinking, no devilry, no abuse, nothing.

My take here is that you're still practicing materialism in a different form, but that's about it. You're just believing more in the importance of the placebo effect.

And yes, technically, what you added regarding scientific research is correct.

[BlackMaze]

@Ananta thank you for sharing your story. This makes more hopeful for the future as i am going exactly through this myself. What i realized is that everything will be ok as long as i am able to manage stress. Every symptom i had so far was caused from stress. 

[Ananta]

14 hours ago, Tanz said:

@Ananta Its great to hear your story

Thank you

 

4 hours ago, BlackMaze said:

@Ananta thank you for sharing your story. This makes more hopeful for the future as i am going exactly through this myself. What i realized is that everything will be ok as long as i am able to manage stress. Every symptom i had so far was caused from stress. 

Your welcome. 

You can PM me if it would help.

[Tanz]

On 12/5/2020 at 1:56 AM, Gesundheit said:

@Tanz

Dude, I honestly don't understand the way you're approaching this whole thing. It just sounds naive.

If what you're saying is true, i.e. Law of Attraction, then we should never get ill unless we think about diseases. You'll say that it's not just thinking about diseases exclusively, but it's actually the negative thoughts in general that cause us all these diseases. But then what about the congenital diseases that initiate early in life during pregnancy? You may say that it's because of the parents and their negative thinking that they caused disease to their fetus. But then after the baby is born, how come it doesn't heal automatically? Since babies don't have negative thoughts, they should be able to heal automatically right after birth and separation from their mothers. Why do they remain physically ill? They aren't doing anything "wrong" or "unspiritual". Furthermore, why do babies still get ill when they do no negative thinking, no devilry, no abuse, nothing.

My take here is that you're still practicing materialism in a different form, but that's about it. You're just believing more in the importance of the placebo effect.

And yes, technically, what you added regarding scientific research is correct.

Where did I say that medical intervention is not needed?  Of course, pregnant women need to see a gynecologist and get checked for congenital diseases.  

As far as babies getting sick there are lots of factors like nutrition, education level, what country they give in, clean water, how well the mother took care of herself throughout her life, her age, etc etc

An example of how social thinking can increase congenital conditions is women are having kids later in life, with divorce rates increasing, women are left having to get themselves more financially independent. There are many solutions but one of them is to not have kids if a person is on the older spectrum and working a stressful job.  The other is to get lucky and find a guy that makes enough money to have kids younger but not everyone can do that and even if they do, they still have a 50% chance of getting a divorce.  

There is still very little we understand about the body and very little funding is going to how to keep the body healthy. Mainly because the solutions to keep someone healthy makes much less money.  There is much more money focusing on problems rather than fixing them. War on terror, war on cancer.  Making severe profit off of peoples misfortune is a major problem.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Tanz

[Gesundheit]

@Tanz

Of course, corruption exists within everything, be it business or anything else. According to my experience in the medical field, it's getting worse by the day. Profit is taking over the whole pharmaceutical industry a little bit more each day. I had worked for a whole year in pharmaceutical marketing and saw how it all works from the inside, and it wasn't pleasant at all. Ironically, in a sense, capitalism is the most malignant disease in our era.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Gesundheit