Funny Thing I Noticed About Perception/Imagination

[Rilles]

5 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

I'm not saying that it means that you would be able to see everything.

I'm just saying that the visual field with closed eyes isn't a shape because you can't see clear edges around it if you close your eyes. You never get to the edge, no matter how much you turn your eyes, because the whole eye itself moves when you try to see the edge.

Okay, I see where youre coming from. Duly noted. 

[4201]

2 minutes ago, Rilles said:

I didnt know a thread could be a cult. I dont believe in anything. Im investigating right now. I like to investigate until I find a conclusion, right now I cant think of a color that isnt limited by a shape. 

Perhaps my way of introducing the topic wasnt the best. I will think of that in the future.

"Can you think of a color without thinking of a shape?" Would be better. 

What I'm saying is that anyone introduced to the idea of "a color without a shape" is contaminated with the idea that they can't think of a color without a shape. If you think it's true then it becomes true for you. If you introduce the idea you are trying to prove beforehand, it's confirmation bias.

The idea that "you" are "unable" to conceptualize about a color without conceptualizing about a shape is a limitation. Where do this limitation stem from? You won't find out by looking for a specific "shapeless" color.

 

[Rilles]

1 minute ago, 4201 said:

What I'm saying is that anyone introduced to the idea of "a color without a shape" is contaminated with the idea that they can't think of a color without a shape. If you think it's true then it becomes true for you. If you introduce the idea you are trying to prove beforehand, it's confirmation bias.

But its hard to ask the question without some form of contamination happening... The question is so very specific... How would you frame it?

[4201]

2 minutes ago, Rilles said:

But its hard to ask the question without some form of contamination happening... The question is so very specific... How would you frame it?

"Ask a random person to think of blue for a few seconds. Then when they are done ask them which shape their blue was."

Some people may come up with some ideas. But if somebody says "shape?? you asked me to think about a color!" then that person didn't think of a shape did they?

Edited November 14, 2020 by 4201

[Rilles]

7 minutes ago, 4201 said:

"Ask a random person to think of blue for a few seconds. Then when they are done ask them which shape their blue was."

Some people may come up with some ideas. But if somebody says "shape?? you asked me to think about a color!" then that person didn't think of a shape did they?

Okay! Makes sense. 

[Rilles]

Just now, Ibgdrgnxxv said:

Imagine - would be with closed eye

Think - with open eyes. 

Both would be with different results. Thinking is a recalling of memories. 

To imagine an ocean with closed eyes would be a little harder. 

 

 

 

When I say think of a color I mean visualize/imagine a color. Since you cant hear a color or smell a color. Unless you have synesthesia. 

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Rilles said:

I cant think of a color that isnt limited by a shape.

That's because you assume colors are separate from each other. If you recognize that all colors are one phenomenon you will see clearly that any distinction between them is made-up by the mind.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Rilles]

6 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

That's because you assume colors are separate from each other. If you recognize that all colors are one phenomenon you will see clearly that any distinction between them is made-up by the mind.

Oh... Interesting... Will try to break down that distinction. 

[Corpus]

Isn't a "shape" an imposed concept on the imagined colour which makes it distinct from what is not the imagined colour?

[Osaid]

Colour pertains to shape, they are relative to each other. 

No colour = no shape and no shape = no colour

The reason it seems like you should be able to imagine them separately is because you've created a superficial duality between "colour" and "shape", when in fact they are the same thing. Classic ego-mind.