Is phillosophy/science harmful?

[RedLine]

I don´t mean practical science like medical research to cure deseases , I mean more abstract stuff, wich you study simply for the sake of knowing, without practical use. For example: Ken Wilber, Hegel, Heidegger, Donald Hoffman,  Bernardo Kastrup, Rupert Sheldrake, Stanislav Grof, Dean Radin, etc, etc

 

You can only reach Truth through experince, not through language (phillosophy/science), so what is the point of study/create these things? It is bad for you since you are fulling your mind with ideas and schemes of reality instead of research the Reality by yourself. Also, the more time you spend studying, the less time you spend meditating. Are these not harmful entertainments?

 

Quantym phsyics would be the best example of it. Why would anyone want to read about quantum physics? If what you are looking for is to understand reality, wouldn't it be better to meditate and take psychedelics?. The study of quantum physics introduces new ideas, which you should get rid of in your contemplative practice (since the unveiling of reality implies getting rid of all preconceptions), making everything more difficult. Dont´you think?

 

On the one hand I have a great thirst for knowledge, I have studied hundreds and hundreds books since I was young (it is my vocation), but on the other hand I feel that they are just stupid games. I don´t know how to deal with this, I feel this contradiction everyday. I would like to read your opinions.

Edited September 27, 2020 by RedLine

[Tim R]

20 minutes ago, RedLine said:

You can only reach Truth through experince, not through language (phillosophy/science), so what is the point of study/create these things? It is bad for you since you are fulling your mind with ideas and schemes of reality instead of research the Reality by yourself. Also, the more time you spend studying, the less time you spend meditating. Are these not harmful entertainments?

No, these are not harmful entertainments.  First of all, what precisely do you mean by "harmful"?

If we say "something is harmful", it means that it somehow negatively interferes with our desired outcome, right? 

But you see, there is literally nothing inherently harmful in the universe. Only your thinking makes it so. So it depends on what your goal is.

Even if your goal is to find out what reality is (fundamentally), it is not harmful to engage in science or thinking, because through recognizing that you won't find the Truth in science or religion, or belief, or words, or concepts or anything else along those lines, you get redirected towards your goal. Getting lost in a maze is not a bad thing, because now you know at least that you went the wrong way. You see? Calling science or conceptual knowledge "stupid games" depends on your personal and thus relative goal, too. Even to think that learning about quantum physics just for it's own sake is a bad, useless or harmful thing is wrong, too. It's a game. 

What do you think spirituality and searching for Truth are?  Doing spiritual work is just a game as well. If you think spirituality is something more serious, something more real or more developed than drinking beer, watching TV or doing materialistic, rational science, you're utterly lost and haven't understood it yet. 

Don't you see that spirituality, meditation and psychedelics can be regarded just the same way as getting drunk? Both are ways of trying to get rid of yourself and the suffering that the self implies. 

Don't be arrogant. There's nothing, absolutely nothing better about engaging in spirituality than in anything else.

So in conclusion: there is nothing inherently wrong or harmful about knowledge, science, talking, thinking or studying for it's own sake - because "harmful" depends on what your goal is.

[Member]

57 minutes ago, RedLine said:

You can only reach Truth through experince, not through language (phillosophy/science), so what is the point of study/create these things? It is bad for you since you are fulling your mind with ideas and schemes of reality instead of research the Reality by yourself. Also, the more time you spend studying, the less time you spend meditating. Are these not harmful entertainments?

NO if you know how to filter all of the information. Meditation will not lead you to the Truth without using your mind. Knowledge is also important but it depends on what kind of ideas you accept to be true.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

wich you study simply for the sake of knowing, without practical use

If there’s a separate self then yes indeed, there is no sense in it, and one deluded oneself via the claiming of the knowing / knowledge (as if it were an object possessed by a subject). If there isn’t a separate self, and you = knowingness, then knowing you are the knowing and not ‘the person’ is the most practical ‘thing’ that could possibly be known (yourself) and you are liberated from the prison of knowing, via the knowing you are not knowing (specifically, ‘objects’). 

Put another way, the most common ‘error’ (relatively) isn’t what is known or unknown, or even what is knowing or not knowing...but the believing there is something to be known, which is not / or is other than, what is already direct experience. (Such as ‘not knowing “the truth”)

[No Self]

All science is initially abstract before becoming solidified through experimentation, and ultimately commercialisation.

If you are enjoying having electricity right now, you can thank the wacky weirdo Tesla and his nutty experiments.

If you like having GPS that works, thank Einstein and his notoriously arcane General Relativity theory.

As for quantum mechanics, here's an article on the topic: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2015/08/13/what-has-quantum-mechanics-ever-done-for-us/#5a544b614046

I would argue that this sort of general knowledge is important for the average person to avoid fact-resistant rabbit holes, emotional manipulation and fake news of the Facebook variety. A lack of respect for science and the scientific process is damaging our society.

Spiritually, a completely different quality is needed as we are no longer talking about the material world. Here, the entire world of knowledge is temporarily discarded, along with the 'knower'. This higher, nondual truth can be practiced without being conflated with ignorance at the human level.

[lmfao]

@RedLine It depends what your goals are right? I wouldn't consider philosophy and science as things antithetical to spiritual awakening, they're just different domains. However, you will encounter the fundementals of both science and philosophy if you pursue this spiritual work. 

It's not harmful if you know the place of the knowledge. As long as you don't make the mistake of conflating it with the absolute. And then it's just another hobby or interest you have.