Is Leo's view of time correct?

[remember]

brum brum  < that’s a car!

Edited July 7, 2020 by remember

[Anderz]

@remember But change doesn't explain the arrow of time, unless you mean that there is only change in one direction.

[remember]

@Anderz change does also not explain the error of „time“ 

or you could also say „time“ does not explain the error of change.

[Anderz]

@remember I don't see how reality as a whole can change. Time on the other hand is actually not change. Time is a finite perspective of the infinite. It's like the example of Pi I mentioned earlier, which is both an endless sequence in the now (think time) and at the same time a changeless constant. Pi doesn't change.

[remember]

34 minutes ago, Anderz said:

@remember I don't see how reality as a whole can change. Time on the other hand is actually not change. Time is a finite perspective of the infinite. It's like the example of Pi I mentioned earlier, which is both an endless sequence in the now (think time) and at the same time a changeless constant. Pi doesn't change.

reality is permanently changing. time does not exist, only change exists - if you move away from earth reality as a whole changes tremendously. if there were no constants there were no you, or maybe that’s the point, there is no constant that’s why you are . . .

Edited July 7, 2020 by remember

[Anderz]

@remember Change is relative. Consider Absolute reality. If the Absolute could change it would turn into something it was not. That's a contradiction.

[Member]

2 minutes ago, Anderz said:

@remember Change is relative. Consider Absolute reality. If the Absolute could change it would turn into something it was not. That's a contradiction.

What is absolute/whole reality?

[remember]

1 minute ago, Anderz said:

@remember Change is relative. Consider Absolute reality. If the Absolute could change it would turn into something it was not. That's a contradiction.

change is relative that’s why the construct of time is relative.

the absolute is the absolute because it is the absolute.

[Anderz]

@remember Okay, yes the experience of time is a flow. That means change of some kind. So the experience of time is relative. I haven't figured out yet what makes duration of time being experienced. The fundamental time I consider to have the time span of zero seconds! Because there is only now, and nothing outside of the now, so the experience of duration is some kind of second order phenomenon.

The fundamental time is a result of the infinite Absolute and changeless unfolding in the now. That part I believe is correct. There is no need for consciousness being some active agent able to cause change.

[Anderz]

The experience of time is relative. However, the fundamental time and even the time measured in seconds is absolute! Some simple things about the future can be predicted. For example I predict that tomorrow will be Wednesday. And that's an absolute (and inevitable) result when seen from the totality (the context of the Absolute).

[remember]

5 minutes ago, Anderz said:

The experience of time is relative. However, the fundamental time and even the time measured in seconds is absolute! Some simple things about the future can be predicted. For example I predict that tomorrow will be Wednesday. And that's an absolute (and inevitable) result when seen from the totality (the context of the Absolute).

that depends on where you live - for some people, tomorrow might be thuesday or thursday - the context of the absolute is also variating, might be for some people tomorrow is tomorrow, see what you thought is the absolute might be actually relative and what you thought is relative might be the absolute.

[Anderz]

@remember Okay, make it GMT. At for example 10:00 AM GMT tomorrow there will be a definite number of Planck time intervals from the Big Bang. That's an absolute number.

[Member]

1 minute ago, remember said:

what you thought is the absolute might be actually relative and what you thought is relative might be the absolute.

?

Time is not fundamental, it is just a name/label we give to things or repeating patterns so that we can measure them. There is no such thing as universal/absolute reality, it is all relative. But sure, information cannot be destroyed and it is infinite. Information is form IN aka manifested reality.

[Anderz]

3 minutes ago, Member said:

it is all relative.

Relativity is only a result of comparing separate objects. When each object is examined in relation to the Absolute the object is absolute. For example is Donald J. Trump relatively the current U.S. President? No, Trump is absolutely POTUS today.

[remember]

7 minutes ago, Anderz said:

Relativity is only a result of comparing separate objects. When each object is examined in relation to the Absolute the object is absolute. For example is Donald J. Trump relatively the current U.S. President? No, Trump is absolutely POTUS today.

yes and if you were actually going completely meta, you could ask: what is a president? there are still grades of absolutism, if you still dare you can ask that question openly.

Edited July 7, 2020 by remember

[Anderz]

@remember The word "president" is just a concept. The menu is not the dinner, the map is not the territory, although from a nondual perspective the map and the territory are actually one. So it depends on context. And when the context is the Absolute, objects become absolute. Even the word "president" becomes absolute within the context of the Absolute.

[Member]

@Anderz

From your relative perspective, yes it is the Absolute. But that doesn't mean that your time is fundamental.

Spacetime is in formation manifested every time, every where.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Member

[remember]

@Anderz i sometimes wish i was a really good poker player, but i am not. so i guess to understand the game really either the cards know best or the player knows best.

[Anderz]

4 minutes ago, Member said:

Spacetime is in formation manifested every time, every where.

Not according to the growing block theory:

Quote

"According to the growing block universe theory of time (or the growing block view), the past and present exist while the future does not." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growing_block_universe

The future exists as unmanifested information, not as manifested information.

[Anderz]

I disagree with Leo that consciousness can imagine things. That's like claiming "God did it" or "consciousness has free will". Consciousness is a state of being aware of the manifested information. A state cannot do anything on its own.