Right Here, Right Now, An Awakening Is Possible.

[jjer94]

I'm making this topic in response to another recent topic called "Do You Have to Have an Enlightenment Experience to Become Enlightened?" I posted something in that topic, but it went off on such a ridiculous tangent that I would have been doing a disservice to the readers. So I pulled a "Pinocchio." 

I've been skirting around making a long-ass post like this for some time because I personally find this forum to be quite distracting and there's always the risk of spiritual ego...that's why I don't post much anymore. But now, the perspective seems to have changed from getting internet point "bloops" to how I can use this platform as a tool. It's a test of sorts to see how effectively I can use words to express my experience. I'm sure at least one of you will benefit in some way. The urge to write about all this stuff is definitely there...and who knows, maybe a blog of sorts is on the horizon.

Now here's the post, paraphrased. 

The topic question "Do You Have to Have an Enlightenment Experience to Become Enlightened?" is misleading because enlightenment is not an experience. All experiences are fleeting; your true nature is ever present. However, the realization does often happen as an event, and I prefer to call that event an "awakening." Fundamentally, nothing changes after an awakening. 

Everyone seems to glorify awakenings, like they're so difficult to get. They also make it seem as though it's the end-all-be-all; that once you have an awakening you'll instantly be forever at peace (That happens to probably 0.1% of people). An awakening actually is really dang simple, and it's only the first step on the pathless path of enlightenment. The brunt of the journey is clearing away all the leftover flotsam and jetsam of the self-structure post-awakening; that takes earnestness, as Nisargadatta put it. That's also where meditation and other techniques really start to have a noticeable impact. That's my experience, at least. 

Right here, right now, an awakening is possible. Sit down, and shut up. Stop telling yourself you're unworthy or you need to meditate more or read "I Am That" for the 124th time, and read this with as much open-mindedness as possible:

At this moment, you unconciously believe yourself to be a number of things: an ego, a personality, a body, memory, a spiritual ego, etc. Now notice that all of these things are experiences. Like I said before, all experiences are fleeting, so they couldn't be you. In fact, a lot of your suffering comes from trying to make these fleeting experiences into a solid entity in which you call "you." Kind of like trying to hold onto a rock in the middle of a stream while the water's slapping you in the face.  Yet among these passing experiences, something never changes...hmm...

At an intimate level, you feel like you're inside the body "looking out." But examine your experience closely...there is only "out". There is no one seeing; there is only seeing. Look at these words. There are only these words. Nobody sees them. The words just appear. The same goes for all other perceptions: there is only perceiving. At a fundamental level, there isn't even such thing as a body; a body is just a part of perceiving. No one is thinking; thoughts just appear. No one hears; there is only sound. There is no "you" inside a body looking out towards an "external world"; in a sense, the external world is inside you. Sights and sounds are just as much "inside you" as thoughts and feelings. You may feel much more open after reading that...good.

If all there is is boundary-less perceiving, and you are not perceiving, what is left? 

What is left when you remove all ideas of a body, of an ego "looking out," of an external world, even of I AM, the sense that you exist? What is left when you remove perceiving? What is left when you remove the entire universe? Forget about your ideas of existence and non-existence for a sec. Just look and see what is!

It's not a thing or an experience, but it just is. It's totally impersonal and inconceivable. The moment I try to describe it, I reduce it. It's the silence of sound, the emptiness of a picture, the beingness of touch and taste and feeling and thought. It's the backdrop, not experience but pervading all experience. It's the timeless immovable trunk of a tree, while experience is the transient leaves. It's so empty that it's full. So mysterious, and so alive. Do you see?

If you woke up to this, congratulations. Bask in it. Laugh, cry, do a silly dance; the body will probably want to do something. Let it do its thing. Notice how the body animates itself without a "you." Pretty cool, huh? To quote Almost Famous: "It's all just...happening!" 

Like I said, this is only the beginning. Don't expect that the ego will be completely gone after this. In fact, it may come back even stronger for some time. But that's a story for another day... (In the meantime, this may help.)

If you still don't see it, don't fret. Maybe these words just don't resonate with you, and that's okay. Perhaps mind is still in the way. I'd say try refuting more of your beliefs, especially the belief that you're a tiny dot of consciousness in a vast universe full of matter. That's a biggie. What if it were the other way around? (use this and/or this as a possible resource.)

And finally, on a side note, those who have examined their experience further may notice the capacity to focus on one perception at a time. I call that the "spotlight," and it can also be used as a gateway to discovering the Truth of what you are. The spotlight may be another intimate sense of "you," but again, it's impermanent (e.g. deep sleep), so it couldn't be the Truth of you. What is the spotlight made of?

That's a lot to take in. Okay, that's it! I'm signing off. Go click the like button, share with a friend, and don't forget to sign up to my newslet... 

Gotcha there, didn't I? 

Cheers,

JJ

Edited July 12, 2016 by jjer94
Added links

[Emerald]

41 minutes ago, jjer94 said:

I'm making this topic in response to another recent topic called "Do You Have to Have an Enlightenment Experience to Become Enlightened?" I posted something in that topic, but it went off on such a ridiculous tangent that I would have been doing a disservice to the readers. So I pulled a "Pinocchio." 

I've been skirting around making a long-ass post like this for some time because I personally find this forum to be quite distracting and there's always the risk of spiritual ego...that's why I don't post much anymore. But now, the perspective seems to have changed from getting internet point "bloops" to how I can use this platform as a tool. It's a test of sorts to see how effectively I can use words to express my experience. I'm sure at least one of you will benefit in some way. The urge to write about all this stuff is definitely there...and who knows, maybe a blog of sorts is on the horizon.

Now here's the post, paraphrased. 

The topic question "Do You Have to Have an Enlightenment Experience to Become Enlightened?" is misleading because enlightenment is not an experience. All experiences are fleeting; your true nature is ever present. However, the realization does often happen as an event, and I prefer to call that event an "awakening." Fundamentally, nothing changes after an awakening. 

Everyone seems to glorify awakenings, like they're so difficult to get. They also make it seem as though it's the end-all-be-all; that once you have an awakening you'll instantly be forever at peace (That happens to probably 0.1% of people). An awakening actually is really dang simple, and it's only the first step on the pathless path to enlightenment. The brunt of the journey is clearing away all the leftover flotsam and jetsam of the self-structure post-awakening; that takes earnestness. That's also where meditation and other techniques really start to have a noticeable impact. That's my experience, at least. 

Right here, right now, an awakening is possible. Sit down, and shut up. Stop telling yourself you're unworthy or you need to meditate more or read "I Am That" for the 124th time, and read with as much open-mindedness as possible:

At this moment, you unconciously believe yourself to be a number of things: an ego, a personality, a body, memory, a spiritual ego, etc. Now notice that all of these things are experiences. Like I said before, all experiences are fleeting, so they couldn't be you. In fact, a lot of your suffering comes from trying to make these fleeting experiences into a solid entity in which you call "you." Kind of like trying to hold onto a rock in the middle of a stream while the water's slapping you in the face.  Yet among these passing experiences, something never changes...hmm...

At an intimate level, you feel like you're inside the body "looking out." But examine your experience closely...there is only "out". There is no one seeing; there is only seeing. Look at these words. There are only these words. Nobody sees them. The words just appear. The same goes for all other perceptions: there is only perceiving. At a fundamental level, there isn't even such thing as a body; a body is just a part of perceiving. No one is thinking; thoughts just appear. No one hears; there is only sound. There is no "you" inside a body looking out towards an "external world"; in a sense, the external world is inside you. Sights and sounds are just as much "inside you" as thoughts and feelings. You may feel much more open after reading that...good.

If all there is is boundary-less perceiving, and you are not perceiving, what is left? 

What is left when you remove all ideas of a body, of an ego "looking out," of an external world, even of I AM, the sense that you exist? What is left when you remove perceiving? What is left when you remove the entire universe? Forget about your ideas of existence and non-existence for a sec. Just look and see what is!

It's not a thing or an experience, but it just is. It's totally impersonal and inconceivable. The moment I try to describe it, I reduce it. It's the silence of sound, the emptiness of a picture, the beingness of touch and taste and feeling and thought. It's the backdrop, not experience but pervading all experience. It's the timeless immovable trunk of a tree, while experience is the transient leaves. It's so empty that it's full. So mysterious, and so alive. Do you see?

If you woke up to this, congratulations. Bask in it. Laugh, cry, do a silly dance; the body will probably want to do something. Let it do its thing. Notice how the body animates itself without a "you." Pretty cool, huh? Quoting Almost Famous: "It's all just...happening!" 

Like I said, this is only the beginning. Don't expect that the ego will be completely gone after this. In fact, it may come back even stronger for some time. But that's a story for another day...

If you still don't see it, don't fret. Mind is still in the way. I'd say try refuting more of your beliefs, especially the belief about there being a tiny dot of consciousness in a vast universe full of matter. What if it were the other way around?... 

And finally, on a side note, those who have examined their experience further may notice the capacity to focus on one perception at a time. I call that the "spotlight," and it can also be used as a gateway to discovering the Truth of what you are. The spotlight may be another intimate sense of "you," but again, it's fleeting, so it couldn't be the Truth of you. What is the spotlight made of?

That's a lot to take in. Okay, that's it! I'm signing off. Go click the like button, share with a friend, and don't forget to sign up to my newslet... 

Gotcha there, didn't I? 

Cheers,

JJ

Thank you for this.

[Pav]

Everybody has had moments of transcendence (when watching a beautiful sunset, while totally absorbed in your work, or while admiring someone you love), nearly the whole first decade of their lives was spent egoless. The hard part is not to slip back into the ego-orientated, deficiency perception when thing aren't going your way. To see through the illusion in everyday life, and to get out of your own way to allow your authentic nature to act spontaneously/effortlessly.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Mat Pav

[Ayla]

@abrakamowse , if you HAVE TO read something, read this! 

[abrakamowse]

@Ayla  Thanks Ayla, I saw it yesterday late and I couldn't finish reading it. I will do it now.

[abrakamowse]

@jjer94  Thanks!!!!

[abrakamowse]

I read it, it's cool... it goes deep...

But anyway I am confused.

[abrakamowse]

I don't know nothing at all

[Ayla]

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

I am confused

sure. Can you see that this is just a thought? Can you trace it back to anything ELSE than a thought? 

[Fishy]

very good thanks

[abrakamowse]

1 hour ago, Ayla said:

sure. Can you see that this is just a thought? Can you trace it back to anything ELSE than a thought? 

"I" don't understand why if "I" know that is just a thought, why "I" can't see "it"...

[abrakamowse]

"If all there is is boundary-less perceiving, and you are not perceiving, what is left? "

 

This is where I get lost, I know I am not the body, not the thoughts, not the feelings, etc... but I still feel that the body is the one which let me "perceive" through it by the senses, like sight, hearing, touch, etc... that's what keeps me "inside" this body. I know that there's no physical boundaries, at an atomic level we are emptiness mostly... but that's not enough for me at least or for consciousness... don't really know why things are stuck in this "stage" if I seem to understand everything. I know is not about understanding, but then... I don't know what else. Just sit and relax maybe....

[jjer94]

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

but I still feel that the body is the one which let me "perceive" through it by the senses, like sight, hearing, touch, etc... that's what keeps me "inside" this body.

Stop believing for a moment that the body exists (which fundamentally is the case). What's left?

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

I know that there's no physical boundaries, at an atomic level we are emptiness mostly

That's just a story. Forget about what you know, and see for yourself in direct experience. There is only perceiving! You are not "In your body"; the body is in you! The body is not perceiving; the body appears in perceiving!

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

don't really know why things are stuck in this "stage" if I seem to understand everything. I know is not about understanding, but then... I don't know what else.

Your understanding is the very thing preventing awakening. All of these stories about atoms and emptiness are putting a filter on what is... Remove these filters by seeing them as just stories. There's nothing here to understand intellectually. What's left? Don't expect fireworks  It's just your present experience unfiltered!

Edited July 12, 2016 by jjer94

[99th_monkey]

23 hours ago, jjer94 said:

I'm making this topic in response to another recent topic called "Do You Have to Have an Enlightenment Experience to Become Enlightened?" I posted something in that topic, but it went off on such a ridiculous tangent that I would have been doing a disservice to the readers. So I pulled a "Pinocchio." 

I've been skirting around making a long-ass post like this for some time because I personally find this forum to be quite distracting and there's always the risk of spiritual ego...that's why I don't post much anymore. But now, the perspective seems to have changed from getting internet point "bloops" to how I can use this platform as a tool. It's a test of sorts to see how effectively I can use words to express my experience. I'm sure at least one of you will benefit in some way. The urge to write about all this stuff is definitely there...and who knows, maybe a blog of sorts is on the horizon.

Now here's the post, paraphrased. 

The topic question "Do You Have to Have an Enlightenment Experience to Become Enlightened?" is misleading because enlightenment is not an experience. All experiences are fleeting; your true nature is ever present. However, the realization does often happen as an event, and I prefer to call that event an "awakening." Fundamentally, nothing changes after an awakening. 

Everyone seems to glorify awakenings, like they're so difficult to get. They also make it seem as though it's the end-all-be-all; that once you have an awakening you'll instantly be forever at peace (That happens to probably 0.1% of people). An awakening actually is really dang simple, and it's only the first step on the pathless path of enlightenment. The brunt of the journey is clearing away all the leftover flotsam and jetsam of the self-structure post-awakening; that takes earnestness, as Nisargadatta put it. That's also where meditation and other techniques really start to have a noticeable impact. That's my experience, at least. 

Right here, right now, an awakening is possible. Sit down, and shut up. Stop telling yourself you're unworthy or you need to meditate more or read "I Am That" for the 124th time, and read this with as much open-mindedness as possible:

At this moment, you unconciously believe yourself to be a number of things: an ego, a personality, a body, memory, a spiritual ego, etc. Now notice that all of these things are experiences. Like I said before, all experiences are fleeting, so they couldn't be you. In fact, a lot of your suffering comes from trying to make these fleeting experiences into a solid entity in which you call "you." Kind of like trying to hold onto a rock in the middle of a stream while the water's slapping you in the face.  Yet among these passing experiences, something never changes...hmm...

At an intimate level, you feel like you're inside the body "looking out." But examine your experience closely...there is only "out". There is no one seeing; there is only seeing. Look at these words. There are only these words. Nobody sees them. The words just appear. The same goes for all other perceptions: there is only perceiving. At a fundamental level, there isn't even such thing as a body; a body is just a part of perceiving. No one is thinking; thoughts just appear. No one hears; there is only sound. There is no "you" inside a body looking out towards an "external world"; in a sense, the external world is inside you. Sights and sounds are just as much "inside you" as thoughts and feelings. You may feel much more open after reading that...good.

If all there is is boundary-less perceiving, and you are not perceiving, what is left? 

What is left when you remove all ideas of a body, of an ego "looking out," of an external world, even of I AM, the sense that you exist? What is left when you remove perceiving? What is left when you remove the entire universe? Forget about your ideas of existence and non-existence for a sec. Just look and see what is!

It's not a thing or an experience, but it just is. It's totally impersonal and inconceivable. The moment I try to describe it, I reduce it. It's the silence of sound, the emptiness of a picture, the beingness of touch and taste and feeling and thought. It's the backdrop, not experience but pervading all experience. It's the timeless immovable trunk of a tree, while experience is the transient leaves. It's so empty that it's full. So mysterious, and so alive. Do you see?

If you woke up to this, congratulations. Bask in it. Laugh, cry, do a silly dance; the body will probably want to do something. Let it do its thing. Notice how the body animates itself without a "you." Pretty cool, huh? To quote Almost Famous: "It's all just...happening!" 

Like I said, this is only the beginning. Don't expect that the ego will be completely gone after this. In fact, it may come back even stronger for some time. But that's a story for another day... (In the meantime, this may help.)

If you still don't see it, don't fret. Maybe these words just don't resonate with you, and that's okay. Perhaps mind is still in the way. I'd say try refuting more of your beliefs, especially the belief that you're a tiny dot of consciousness in a vast universe full of matter. That's a biggie. What if it were the other way around? (use this and/or this as a possible resource.)

And finally, on a side note, those who have examined their experience further may notice the capacity to focus on one perception at a time. I call that the "spotlight," and it can also be used as a gateway to discovering the Truth of what you are. The spotlight may be another intimate sense of "you," but again, it's impermanent (e.g. deep sleep), so it couldn't be the Truth of you. What is the spotlight made of?

That's a lot to take in. Okay, that's it! I'm signing off. Go click the like button, share with a friend, and don't forget to sign up to my newslet... 

Gotcha there, didn't I? 

Cheers,

JJ

Cool 

[abrakamowse]

3 hours ago, jjer94 said:

Stop believing for a moment that the body exists (which fundamentally is the case). What's left?

Ok, I can do that... there's just awareness

3 hours ago, jjer94 said:

That's just a story. Forget about what you know, and see for yourself in direct experience. There is only perceiving! You are not "In your body"; the body is in you! The body is not perceiving; the body appears in perceiving!

Ok, that's a good way to open the my mind, thanks! I've never thought about it that way. (I know is not about "thinking" but I need some "pointers" to take the leap. I had some bad experiences because I was searching like crazy and I almost ended crazy Lol.

You are very right, we are perceiving the body, we can't be the body!!!!!

 

3 hours ago, jjer94 said:

Your understanding is the very thing preventing awakening. All of these stories about atoms and emptiness are putting a filter on what is... Remove these filters by seeing them as just stories. There's nothing here to understand intellectually. What's left? Don't expect fireworks  It's just your present experience unfiltered!

Ok, that's cool. Thanks, I think that's what I was needing. I got it now. Thanks a lot!!!

[abrakamowse]

2 hours ago, Piotr said:

@abrakamowse I know what you mean, I for myself have built a comfortable shelter of ideas about nothingness and emptiness all of which I heard about from other people's stories. Now I've come to understand it won't come to me from any other person, since once they try to convey it, it is already turned into something to look for. Anyone else can give me a distorted communication of 'reality' that has to be experienced by me myself and I can interpret the story about it but not necessarily experience if I follow words of those who have. If you're like me a lot in your thinking mind, you know how quickly an idea gets installed in your mind. Drop allllll offfff itttt and breath. Breathing is in your experience. This is why meditation starts there!

Thanks @Piotr  I think I can now drop everything! I got some ideas stuck on my mind and I didn't realize. Thanks to @jjer94  I am seeing what "I" was "doing" wrong.

Thanks guys!!!

[Ayla]

19 hours ago, abrakamowse said:

"I" don't understand why if "I" know that is just a thought, why "I" can't see "it"...

That is because you are trying to understand, to figure it out, to solve a problem, instead of JUST LOOKING !  

[abrakamowse]

Incredibly I just began to watch a video of Shinzen Young about "Do Nothing" meditation, and he's saying that is not us who is meditating, we are being meditated.

Awesome.

[Mal]

18 hours ago, abrakamowse said:

"I" don't understand why if "I" know that is just a thought, why "I" can't see "it"...

I think most of us when Witnessing are subtely trying to decide what is a good thought or a bad thought and at the same time attempting to play the egoic role of "skeptic" toward the ideation. 

This is a trap, because all we have done is make our thoughts "not me, not mine" where what should be happening is something awakening that witnesses the thoughts and instantly recognise thoughts as complete illusions (as opposed to us just labelling thoughts illusiory).

There is nothing to be done except pay attention to the thoughts.  I like the Dzogchen method of "do nothing": "not accepting and not rejecting".

By accepting the thoughts we become them and remain trapped.  By rejecting the thoughts we just merely disown them, pathologize them and "split them off".

Either way, there is no "witness" present.  It's still the ego messing around with itself and thinking it can get somewhere.

It's better to just watch thoughts and "see" how they affect our lives, or bodies and our relationship to life.  Also, to see how thoughts don't really make sense, are inconsistent and how they don't accurately represent "what is" 

Edited July 13, 2016 by Mal

[Mal]

8 minutes ago, Mal said:

I think most of us when Witnessing are subtely trying to decide what is a good thought or a bad thought and at the same time attempting to play the egoic role of "skeptic" toward the ideation. 

This is a trap, because all we have done is make our thoughts "not me, not mine" where what should be happening is something awakening that witnesses the thoughts and instantly recognise thoughts as complete illusions (as opposed to us just labelling thoughts illusiory).

There is nothing to be done except pay attention to the thoughts.  I like the Dzogchen method of "do nothing": "not accepting and not rejecting".

By accepting the thoughts we become them and remain trapped.  By rejecting the thoughts we just merely disown them, pathologize them and "split them off".

Either way, there is no "witness" present.  It's still the ego messing around with itself and thinking it can get somewhere.

It's better to just watch thoughts and "see" how they affect our lives, or bodies and our relationship to life.  Also, to see how thoughts don't really make sense, are inconsistent and how they don't accurately represent "what is" 

The ego IS the ideation.  And an ego can even split itself in two and watch it's own activity and pretend to be meditating and growing.  

This is why I say that awareness is not of the ego, and awareness is something that cannot be brought about intentionally.  It has to arise, or "awaken".

When egos ask questions about awareness, they are attempting to conceptualise something that is actually the "end of the ego".  When the thoughts are seen as illusion, that's awareness. That's the real self. That's awakening.