How Are You Communicating On This Forum??? (Mind Blowing Model) (Intention Of Commu..

[fridjonk]

You guys are hitting all the problems Spiral Dynamics has, that's why Integral Theory is more accurate and reliable. 

[Carl-Richard]

18 minutes ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

@Carl-Richard

However when a stage GREEN is communicating with someone who threatens their world view (a homophobe for example), they will have RED/ONE intentions of communication, and therefore seek to bully, harras, and belittle the opposing side. 

I'm assuming that you're modeling this description after what I call the SJW phenomena, which I believe to be a green movement with a radical blue/red edge. I would say that these people aren't just communicating using blue/red, but they ARE infact blue/red in many aspects, which is quite funny as it seems to contradict many of their green values (which what people like Steven Crowder and the red-pill community are capitalizing on). 

My problem can essentially be summed up like this: 
In pratice, how would you be able to distinguish the 'intention of communication' from the actual values? How do you know when someone is expressing themselves in a red fashion vs. when someone is merely showing their red values? The way I see it, communication is just one of the ways the values are expressed. If those values aren't present within the individual or group, the values wouldn't be expressed, and they would not be a part of the conversation.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Carl-Richard I think it could more easily be explained by this model. 

 saying things like, "blue/red edge" what does that idea mean? Well, this edge you talk of, is represented very explicitly by this model.

This was just one example out of the thousands you could come up with. 

 

You can distinguish between the intention of communication and the actual value by:

Value: The content of what they say.

The intention of communication: What is implied by what they said, what is the tonality?

Quote

How do you know when someone is expressing themselves in a red fashion vs. when someone is merely showing their red values?

Dude Im sick of repeating myself! Go read my other replies!!!! 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[Consept]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I believe you're modeling this description after what I call the SJW phenomena, which I believe to be a green movement with a radical blue/red edge. I would say that these people aren't just communicating using blue/red, but they ARE infact blue/red in many aspects, which is quite funny as it seems to contradict many of their green values (which what people like Steven Crowder and the red-pill community are capitalizing on). 

My problem can essentially be summed up like this: 
In pratice, how would you be able to distinguish the 'intention of communication' from the actual values? How do you know when someone is expressing themselves in a red fashion vs. when someone is merely showing their red values? The way I see it, communication is just one of the ways the values are expressed. If those values aren't present within the individual or group, the values wouldn't be expressed, and they would not be a part of the conversation.

I disagree, i would say SJWs are green but unhealthy version of it. The big difference between tier 1 and tier 2 is that you cant take on others points of view that contradict yours. So SJWs have no understanding or empathy for why a conservative thinks the way they do, they still believe that there is one truth and their opponents are blocking that truth because theyre stupid and dont get it. To communicate this they use red intention, they have no intention of coming to a mutual understanding. However the content of what they believe is green and most likely they even build up communities of people who feel the same way they do and most likely these are lovng communities, but when challanged the loving goes out the window   

[Carl-Richard]

@UnconsciousHuman The blue/red edge means that their movement isn't merely green. I'm just not convinced how you can distinguish the intention of communication from the expression of the values.

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Carl-Richard If you don't understand it you don't understand it.

Spend more time trying to understand it and you will, I can promise you that.

For example, your last mesage you were using YELLOW intentionality of communication. You aren't interested in being right or being friendly or bonding you're interested in bettering your understanding and conceptualization. 

Thats just one instance of it, go and look at my other replies! AND REREAD THE ORIGINAL POST

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Consept Spot on! You've nailed understanding this model. You've got no idea how happy that makes me feel that someone else sees what I see.

[Thewritersunion]

Model around CHOAS and there imagination will expand

[Consept]

7 minutes ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

@Consept Spot on! You've nailed understanding this model. You've got no idea how happy that makes me feel that someone else sees what I see.

I'm glad but honestly I like it, I just don't think you can use it to work out others, but to observe yourself I think it's excellent 

[Thewritersunion]

What if they just resonated biologically from the same stage, just a Tier under?

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Thewritersunion In both your posts under this thread, I dont understand what youre trying to say. Could you elaborate? 

[w4read]

24 minutes ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

I'm sorry I have to do this to you but, here, for example, you seem to want to not use this model against others STAGE GREEN MORALS but you make good and bad about "using it against others" which would be an example of BLUE/THREE intention of communication according to the model.

Again nothing wrong with that, I use red, blue, orange, green, and yellow all myself interchangeably.

I'm not sure what you mean here, but I'm pretty sure it's a distraction.. I got you, buddy!

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Consept Glad to here.

[Thewritersunion]

@UnconsciousHuman you know how there are tiers in spiral dynamics? You know how each of those stages have few things you can boil them down to? Like religion and order in Blue?

Well, what if the tier under them (think Tier 0) still was primal? A sort of primal stage green.

~~~
What else do I need to elaborate on?

[UnconsciousHuman]

@w4read I just read that back, IDK what the hell I was trying to say. whoops, I removed it haha. I don't want to cause anyone confusion. 

But I think what I was trying to say was that your intention when "not wanting to use it on others" would be characterized by following the norm of "no harm against others" which is a stage GREEN norm but the intention to follow through on it is BLUE intention. Hope that makes better sense.

[w4read]

@UnconsciousHuman oh, i see. 

No I was thinking more about the fact that using it on others could easily be a distraction from what is actually important, which is introspection.

As well, how can you actually determine others intent with any presision when all you see is words without any emotions or story behind them?

 

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Thewritersunion I dont understand still.

[Carl-Richard]

@Consept No individual, group or movement is summarized by one SD stage. It's all a mixed bag. I would say SJWs are more red/blue than say hippies. It's OK to say that these values can be expressed through concepts like communication and intent, but I ultimately see no additional descriptive capability of this model. It's good to have nuances and different concepts, but it doesn't require excessive modeling.

[Thewritersunion]

@UnconsciousHuman
Guess I’ll have to work on my SD2 model lol

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Thewritersunion Work on it, send it to me as soon as you complete it, i recommend you look into integral theory.