Consciousness just observes

[Mulky]

It doesn't understand, remember, or create, these are all done by things that are objects on some level, because they have properties, they do things, etc.  If that is the case, won't any type of learning, remembering, understanding, etc, be done by something that will forget or possibly lose its understanding again.

[Truth Addict]

Consciousness does not even exist, let alone observe.

[Jg17]

“Consciousness just observes” is the typical subject/object duality. 

There’s ultimately no “this” here which watches “that” over there. It’s all observed yet there’s no separate observer.

The observer is also an object. Or all objects are identical to the subject. (It can be formulated in different ways.)

Notice that the thing which you’re calling the observer is itself observed.

[Jg17]

12 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Consciousness does not even exist, let alone observe.

How exactly do you mean consciousness doesn’t exist? 

 

[hamedsf]

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

Consciousness does not even exist, let alone observe.

 @Truth Addict why do you answer when you don't know and you're misleading the beginners? 

[Mulky]

"Consciousness just observes” is the typical subject/object duality. 

There’s ultimately no “this” here which watches “that” over there. It’s all observed yet there’s no separate observer.

 

That's exactly what I am saying, that wouldn't be the case if there was anything at all to consiousness itself such as remembering, understanding, creating, or doing.  Anything that does any of those things will meet its end eventually, it won't last forever.   So in seeking enlightenment it is already the case that consciousness itself is enlightened, what seems to GET enlightened is a mind that is temporary.   The point is that if there is something that can become enlightened that thing that became enlightened is not a true identity, because it is a being that can change states/forms, it is really just a movement in life, and not a true foundaitional existence.  The existence that is true isn't like that at all, but also that existence can't keep anything, such as a memory.

 

The non dual existence you were describing, in that, it can be said that nothing could be held on to.  There is no this, that watches that over there.  But in that existance all the this's and that's on any level can move and take any type of form, and this level includes all that we call mental and experiential.  For this reason that nothing is stuck to the pure existence under it all, lessons, evolution, memory, couldn't stick either.  They could stick to a more subtle form, a more subtle body, or mind, but not to the pure underlying existence.   So it really seems to be true that enlightenment just is the truth and it's either known or not, but the being that either knows it or not, isn't the real being, its another object in life.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Mulky

[Truth Addict]

2 hours ago, Jg17 said:

How exactly do you mean consciousness doesn’t exist?

It's a pointer towards nothing.

1 hour ago, hamedsf said:

 @Truth Addict why do you answer when you don't know and you're misleading the beginners? 

Someone who's realised consciousness is not a beginner.

I don't know because knowledge is not possible, not because I lack it. No one else knows anything as well.

[Inliytened1]

@Mulky form i(lets say you for example) is finite - it is within formlessness or infinity.  But at the same time the two are identical.  Form = formlessness.  Finity is Infinity.  Infinity is consciousness.  Formlessness is consciousness.  Form is consclousness.   It is all One.   Consciousness is a shapeshifter and simultaneously has no shape.   In its formless state it is pure Being.  This is pure potential - everything and nothing simultaneously.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Jg17]

@Mulky  You’re still creating a division between the manifest actions of form and consciousness, implying that consciousness is some different “pure, underlying, true reality”. Form = consciousness, as @Inliytened1 said.

Consciousness is the substance of everything, including learning, understanding, creating etc. There are different forms/states of consciousness but it’s all consciousness. The world and all aspects of your personal experience are consciousness. 

[SoonHei]

@Mulky what you're ultimately pointing to as "consciousness"... the thing you say only observes, it is also all of what it observes... so in a way, it also understands, creates, and it is also all objects

so where do you really draw the line?

there's only consciousness 

[Mulky]

I appreciate every ones insights on this.  Even if I don't respond I have still considered your comment.