Mezanti

Where do psychopaths lie on the SP spectrum?

28 posts in this topic

Psychophats are just people. People with impaired capacity for empathy, which limits their capacity for love. They deserve compassion, just like any other being. They are god playing at its finest; super involved in the illusion. 

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Posted (edited)

As for the main question, the SD system talks about vMEMEs, which can be learned by copying the people in the environment. So it is probably possible that there are people that display integral traits, but are nevertheless very limited in their empathetic skills. Jordan Peterson is a good example of this.

In my opinion, there is an underlying layer to the SD system which is the true spiritual development, that is translated to the correspondent vMemes of the 'zeitgeist'. 

Edited by Cudin

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Posted (edited)

Exactly @Cudin, to me it seems like people underestimate the impact of varied environment and individual genetic profile in the context of psychopathy.

  • A psychopath raised in a Buddhist temple is going to be very different to one raised in Wall Street environment.
  • Two psychopaths, one male and one female that are the exact opposite to one another in every other way genetically will also turn out very differently when raised in the exact same environment, say if they were either BOTH raised in a Buddhist temple or BOTH raised in a Wall Street environment.

These are very important nuances to take into consideration for me, being too general is like prescribing medication without listing the side effects and including warnings that are important for people to read if they have other dispositions that lead them more likely to incorrectly use the medication (or perhaps they shouldn't be using the medication at all based on their propensities that leave them more at risk).

The environment of the Buddhist temple also has implications for peoples over generalisations here as it pertains to the SD model (in the context of psychopathy).

Edited by possibilities

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16 hours ago, possibilities said:

Can you please elaborate @Shadowraix ? I think that's an interesting observation

Its the fundamental problem with models and its why we need so many models. We have a lot of variation.

If the main goal of spiral dynamics is to map out human growth, you need to cut out nuances if you want it to be easy to follow. Because of this, it can never be fully representative. If you aren't a specialist who focuses on a specific nuance, your model is likely going to be for yourself, or try to fit as many people as possible.

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Posted (edited)

On 8/19/2019 at 8:28 PM, Mezanti said:

What color would you say Psychopaths are.. obviously many will say RED but that would mean that they could evolve out of their psychopathy?

I see Reds having as much care & empathy as Greens, they just have different conditions for when it's activated. I don't think psychopaths are stuck at Red. At Green, instead of this stage showing up as peace and love, it could be a higher ability to shift perspectives, more objectively seeing oneself in relation to a larger world, openness to information which suggests a higher degree of disidentification with beliefs, and so on.

I have been underestimating Green as simple/easy to do and without any skill involved ("caring is involuntarily and just happens"). But now it seems to me that the evolved thinking is the main driver from Orange to Green and that this stage is not about empathy or care at all. It's just the expanded understanding and reasoning that allows for the already existing empathy to manifest more objectively.

So there is an intelligence to Green first and foremost. Altruism may or may not be a byproduct, but it's secondary, the empathy has to already be there. And Red thinking produces behaviour that better aligns with psychopathy, but my belief is that the similarities are merely surface appearance.

Edited by cypres

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Green Cult members putting beavers in a blender is as psychopathic as it gets. 

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Posted (edited)

Yes good point @Shadowraix  :)  , my bias is that I tend to be very pedantic when it comes to accurately assessing things only because I have a history of becoming annoyed when others don't exert prudence in their use of a model which is most of the time a closed loop (meaning we can't have good conversations about "Oh where will psychopaths fall in SD?" - it starts to become a bit silly because there's so many assumptions that aren't catered for - thus to this degree the utility around its generalisation becomes less and less).

Edited by possibilities

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