yellowschnee

Brain washing

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@yellowschnee WOW! This is very interesting. It explains a lot. Thank you.

Here are some screenshots for those who are lazy to read the whole article:

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By the way, what isn't a brainwashing?

...

@Esoteric It reminds me of our conversation earlier this month.

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Direct experience.


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Direct experience.

From what frame of reference is it better than belief?

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@Truth Addict you only have your own frame of reference.  So are you saying that how do you know if you directly become conscious of the Absolute, for example, or Absolutes, that they are not beliefs?  I cannot explain that - from your frame of reference it is still a belief :)

Cannot know the Absolute.  Or rather knowing is Being.


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Truth AddictSo are you saying that how do you know if you directly become conscious of the Absolute, for example, or Absolutes, that they are not beliefs?

You can't become conscious of the Absolute Truth, because you are already conscious of it. This claim that something has to be done is what I'm critical of. It is a brainwashing.

I was just saying that direct experience is not the absolute truth. It is relative and biased by the thoughts.

You might say that you won't know until you directly experience. But I could say the same thing about beliefs, you won't know until you believe. And we both can be either right or wrong, cuz it's all relative.

Edited by Truth Addict

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Posted (edited)

Direct experience isn’t the absolute truth. 

There’s a lot of things misguided by that belief. Many people after all suffer from numerous illnesses, from physical to mental, which hinder their capacity for conscious perception. Moreover to assume that conscious perception from a regular persons perspective is the absolute truth is also misguided, experience of truth varies widely among people based on capacities moreover the human organism itself has not presently been shown capable of perceiving the absolute truth by way of limitations in sense perception and cognitive processing of that information. Thus the notion of absolute truth is already hindered a the first line of attack for absolute truth seekers, the inability to perceive it, so now they’re theoretically constrained and are basing their capacity to perceive absolute truth based on their capacity for theoretical thought which not only has problems by way of a human not having access to a complete picture of sense perception, they are limited by way of cognitive perception. This all comes down to a signal to noise ratio, reduce all the noise and you have the absolute truth, everyone differs on their level of their noise and the human organism itself has limitations as to the degree of noise it can reduce relative to its biological constraints.

On the subject of brainwashing well you can seek how easy it is for people and other beings to take advantage of others who’s signal to noise ratio is proportionally distorted. You simply need to learn the manner in which it can be sorted, the likelihood of distortion based from the perspective of not just biological abilities (from level of intelligence to personality propensities) but informational relationships the person already has (I.e. this builds a psychological understanding - maybe they’re religious, maybe they’ve been through trauma, maybe they know what kind of close relationships they have and form and so on).

Edited by possibilities

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Posted (edited)

40 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

You can't become conscious of the Absolute Truth, because you are already conscious of it. This claim that something has to be done is what I'm critical of. It is a brainwashing.

I was just saying that direct experience is not the absolute truth. It is relative and biased by the thoughts.

You might say that you won't know until you directly experience. But I could say the same thing about beliefs, you won't know until you believe. And we both can be either right or wrong, cuz it's all relative.

Yes indeed from our limited frame of reference everything is relative.  There is no objective world.

But there are Absolutes that you can become directly conscious of that are Absolutes because the Absolute is the lack of frame of reference.

And yes you are already the Absolute but via mysticism you can discover that directly.

That's what I was referring to by direct experience.  Yes as our limited POV i can directly see the color red and you can see the same color and call it Blue.  There is no Absolute in the realm of the Relative.

I think we are in agreement on that

The only reason i brought up the Absolute as in God is because of the earlier post in which you guys were referencing about Leo's teachings being brainwashing.

As we discussed on that thread from the frame of reference of someone who has not had a mystical experience it would seem like that - you said it is more than seem - and i saw your POV.  To that person that's what it is.

But carry on - i guess this thread is about the relative and not God/Absolute Truth.

 

Edited by Inliytened1

We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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I don't get what you guys are writing. It's either too deep for my understanding or doesn't have anything to do with the topic.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

But there are Absolutes that you can become directly conscious of that are Absolutes because the Absolute is the lack of frame of reference.

Mystical experiences are cool, but the absolute qualities of reality are not reality, they're not the absolute truth. These absolute qualities are only possible because of duality. A human being can experience those qualities because we are separate from God, not to say that we're not connected as well. Without duality, all meanings dissolve and reality becomes raw.

The human mind projects meanings on the absolute truth for its own purposes.

It just is what it is. Anything we say beyond that is an interpretation, and it's relative to our individual experiences. For example, some people have experienced hell realms, is that absolute love? Absolutely not from their perspective.

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

And yes you are already the Absolute but via mysticism you can discover that directly.

And via belief you can discover that directly. Many people have done it.

@yellowschnee Sorry for going off-topic. I like your OP.

Edited by Truth Addict

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Posted (edited)

@Truth Addict mysticism is a lot more than "cool".  Ill post a new thread about mysticism (essentially awakening or enlightenment) and achieving it through meditation in a separate thread when i get a chance - don't wish to derail this one.

Edited by Inliytened1

We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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Posted (edited)

OP I guess I was addressing other comments of which can be used as an example of brainwashing, at least as it pertains to sharing a relationship.

In my second paragraph I provide a context for this by addressing brainwashing directly.

Its all about the signal to noise ratio (with respect to truth versus on truth).

For the prey, to reduce the noise, for the predator, to increase the noise and introduce the false perception of a signal. 

Many are unknowingly both prey and predator.

Edited by possibilities

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Posted (edited)

What isn’t brainwashing?

Hypothetically, something analogous to a situation in which both persons are arguing against their own position and then the two parties seeing who wins (meaning what position truly stands after this kind of scrutiny).

Needless to say, brainwashing is extremely prevalent given the rarity of this. The only difference is by degrees as it’s a subject with many different colours, tones, etc.

Yes Leo brainwashes people, he pokes and prods throughout his videos with statements like “you don’t understand”, “see you’re not awake you’re unconscious”, the videos are also like a black hole given how long they go for.

He doesn’t treat his viewers as equals and respect the susceptibility of brainwashing even though he would know a lot about it. This stuff has been studied extensively and it’s easy to find a lot out about it, which is what I recommend people do. So in this sense he’s obviously strategic.

I don’t think it’s wise to choose between brain washing but if you had to better to be brainwashed by Leo than McDonalds.

I’ll still learn from Leo though because at least he does make an effort to create good content out of interesting subjects. People like Jordan Peterson, Tai Lopez and others, they do the same thing. Jordan paints the great illusion that he’s not at all a predator in this regard, he’s got many to buy in and put down their guard so he can plant his seeds.

Most people do not try nearly as hard, they’re unknowingly both predators and prey, many of which you don’t want to be brainwashed by, but it’s almost inevitable that we’re going to be persuaded given how social we are as a species and in saying so, gullible and naive. We let down our guard for those we trust, our parents, teachers and many others then they seek (unknowingly/knowingly) to infect us with their poorly thought out beliefs.

My only suggestion is to critically think about your own, really study the subject of belief and how it occurs in your consciousness.

 

 

 

Edited by possibilities

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Posted (edited)

@yellowschnee Only trust in you, because you are God.  When you fully awaken you no longer need to give your authority away to others - like Leo or Jordan Peterson, or Adyashanti, or Sadhguru.  This is because you become fully conscious that you ARE them.  You created them as you did all things.

Thus you transcend all nonsense like brainwashing.  But this comes with spiritual practice such as mediation - self inquiry, etc.

You can do anything you want and you don't need a teacher or spiritual guru once you awaken.  You can write books, start your own business, teach, whatever.  But you will no longer be bound to the words of others because you are conscious that you are reality itself.

Edited by Inliytened1

We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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@yellowschnee

The highest realizaton is that what i am saying is a strange loop because you can't even trust what i am saying!  

Truth can't be spoken.  But yet we do - knowing it's limitations.


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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@possibilities How was i derailing the thread? I was addressing the OP about brainwashing.


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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13 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@yellowschnee

The highest realizaton is that what i am saying is a strange loop because you can't even trust what i am saying!  

Truth can't be spoken.  But yet we do - knowing it's limitations.

This is not addressing OP, now you’re being deceptive by avoiding the obvious. Please stay on topic, thank you.

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@possibilities that may not be obvious to him..watch your projecting - and i don't mean that condescendingly, i mean it sincerely.  

I'm done on the thread though, i believe i have passed what wisdom i have here.xD


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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