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Schahin

Asking for opinions, did natural evolution occur?

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Well I know it is a tricky question due to all the knowledge after experiencing "nothing", "God", or be it after being conscious of it.

But actually it is just a question of opinion or of course someone has actually became conscious that natural evolution did happen.

Even if there is no past and no future but obviously we still live lives hahaha and I live a life not being conscious of god but being conscious that I live a life encountering so many other peoples lives. And therefore I get curious in weather I am a living being that evolved out of a monkey or am I just a human that got instantly dreamt, without any evolution beforehand.

 

So when we find fossils in the earth, we, of course we humans ( I just suppose we exist, because that's what is obvious to most people that haven't experienced god) are those fossils of actual happenings in the past that happened in order to evolve and for the human ultimately to exist?

Or has that never happened and all that is now is just a dream and in that dream there are fossils to improve authenticity of the dream, or are the dinosaur fossils and the monkey similarity indeed a clue that the human dream evolved out of the other animals dreams.

Wanting to have opinions is just part of my curiosity or the curiosity of other people also. Answering, who put them there? or what has evolved doesn't eliminate any curiosity just makes it more complicated hehe because obviously in this dream there are fossils and other species that look very similar to us humans. 

Because the ultimate question is, do humans exist because they were just instantly created by god itself to experience human life or did it made humans exist by gradually evolving from very simple lifeforms such as bacteria. Even if it all happens in the present, but the natural course "timeline" of evolution in this dream did it exist or didn't it?

Also I mean after I die or you die, obviously there is still earth and the earth dream and "evolution" happening, or is it all gone after I die? Because that is very hard to grasp as I have seen other people dieing and the dream ist still present :)

After we die, do we experience another evolved form of life on earth or do we/it experience a lifeform that could have evolved if certain things went different on earth, or are we on another planet with other fossils or is it just every single dream made up and built instantly with all the necessary clues to make it as authentic as possible.

 

The reason I came up with this curiosity (I actually always thought natural evolution is completely true and had occurred) is that I heard a man claiming in his Big Theory, his name is Tom Campbell, that when there is a tree falling in the forest and only one person has seen it, but that person immediately got killed by the tree, did the tree still fall because nobody else has seen it.

He went on to saying that the tree might have never fallen because there was no observer that registered it, other than that one man who is not there anymore.

So if we would have never gone on searching for fossils, has there never been a natural evolution? Are the fossils only there for us to be sure of our human lives and natural evolution to reinforce the dream?

I hope this makes some sense hehe, I was just very curious and looked for opinions but quickly realised that the conversation becamce very complicated :)

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I like Tom Campbell's work, and mostly agree with him. Is that a belief for me? Yes. But my intuition says he is wise and is talking from direct experience. Please don't ask who is it that has intuition.

Tom's central claim is that we live in a virtual reality (a dream). So everything is virtual, including your house, mobile phone and your brain (until someone opens your skull). When you call your mom, it's actually the Larger Consciousness System (LCS, aka God) that's voicing your mom. Simultaneously, your mom hears you on the other end, and you are also played by the  Larger Consciousness System as far as her experience is concerned. Let's say you are in an elevator get some disturbance on the phone while talking to her. It's actually the infinitely intelligent LCS that computes (in a left-brained analogy) the probability of there being a disturbance, and accordingly decides how the call would be affected.

So, with this example, you might ask, does my mobile phone have a Snapdragon 845 chip-set? If you open up your phone, you'll find it, but the fact is that it is a virtual phone and it works according to the limited physics rule-set of our limited reality.

The same goes for evolution. The earth acts as if it is 4.5 Billion years old and is  located in the Solar system in the Milky way galaxy. But actually that's just the rule-set of our limited physical reality. Asking whether or not evolution happened would mean that you assume that our universe is material and real, as opposed to virtual. Imagine you're playing GTA and are driving an old car. So you might ask, "But this is a virtual car, inside a game. How can it be old? And who drove it before me?". No one did. But the car will act like it has been used, because that's the role it plays in GTA.

Tom asserts that evolution is fundamental to Reality, and that even LCS has had to evolve. I'm not sure how much I agree with that. His Big Theory of Everything centered around two things: Consciousness and Evolution. The purpose of our limited reality is to allow you to become more loving (it's a Love Simulator!).

The evolution of mainstream science  is real (within the virtual reality/dream). But, if you have access to Leo's booklist, check out the books on evolution. They'll show you how evolution happened as a result of an 'intelligent' process (and give you more beliefs, lol). It wasn't a dumb mechanical process as Richard Dawkins asserts.


We are enslaved by anything we do not consciously see. We are freed by conscious perception.

- Vernon Howard

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@Schahin I think you are in a greater state of 'not knowing' than a lot of us on this forum.  Therein lies the real answer to all your questions.

It's all a matter of perspective.  

All science is about pattern matching. It looks for patterns in one phenomenon and then applies that pattern on to other phenomena. For example it says 'hey this creature is very similar to this other creature, there must be some sort of link (pattern match) between them'. It then looks at skeletons (fossils) and applies the same principle, and even to DNA. They then come up with a bigger pattern called 'evolution' and apply that to all living creatures. But you have to be really careful not to confuse 'patterns' with the next thing:

Direct experience a.k.a conscious awareness. This is the experience you are having right now: your perceptions, sights, sounds, smells, touch, feelings, thoughts, the sense that you're existing. The trickster amongst all of those is 'thought'. Because thought is were the scientific 'patterns' live.

It's worth noting that you are also playing the pattern matching game. Without patterns you wouldn't recognise a damn thing. A tree is a tree because it fits the 'tree' pattern and the same for all other objects and things and people in the world around you. A pattern is illusory however. Because a pattern can be discarded and a new one put in its place. The other is because you can apply any pattern you like to the world of direct experience. The world is an illusion, because we treat the world as a jumble of patterns.

The only thing you can be sure of in all this, is that there is constant change in you direct experience. The paradox is that everything seems so permanent and solid and that it 'came from somewhere'. But the solidity and permanency and progress of time, are just patterns - they are not direct experience.

Other words for patterns are: belief, gut feeling, theory, law, information, words, the past, the future, story, narrative, my parents, my birth, my death and so on.

The world is meaningless, unknowable and very mysterious. But that's ok.

 

Edited by LastThursday
Further clarification.

All stories and explanations are false.

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“Yes evolution” is my vote. Thanks for the provocative question!

 

It might be helpful to know the context for the question—what you (or someone else) currently thinks about evolution? One issue is that the word, ‘evolution’ might be conceptually vague.  So, I wonder how talking about evolution might help you? 

 

Spinoza explores the theme of simplicity in his essay on human understanding. He gives an example, ‘a man suddenly becomes a beast’:

“[63] .... (2) Further, as a fictitious idea cannot be clear and distinct, but is necessarily confused, and as all confusion arises from the fact that the mind has only partial knowledge of a thing either simple or complex, and does not distinguish between the known and the unknown, and, again, that it directs its attention promiscuously to all parts of an object at once without making distinctions, it follows, first, that if the idea be of something very simple, it must necessarily be clear and distinct. (3) For a very simple object cannot be known in part, it must either be known altogether or not at all.

[64] .... (2) Thirdly, it follows that fiction cannot be simple, but is made up of the blending of several confused ideas of diverse objects or actions existent in nature, or rather is composed of attention directed to all such ideas at once, [64b] and unaccompanied by any mental assent.”{1}

My understanding of evolution is that a beast gradually became a human. Even the word, “gradually” may be a blending of confused ideas (never mind the words, “human,” “beast,” or “became”). Here, we are talking about several billion years, or ~a trillion days. After what manner of experience can a person comprehend that their ancestors have lived much longer than most stars in the universe burn?

If a person asks me about evolution, I want to figure out why? Are they looking for informational references? Are they looking to evaluate epistemological assumptions? Are they looking for moral admonitions and dogmas like, ‘everything is a fiction’?

 

{1} <https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1016/1016-h/1016-h.htm#para43>

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