Confusion about god and infinity

[Scholar]

I have been thinking about what it means for existence to be infinite for a long time and it seems like I keep getting stuck. I am aware that one cannot contemplate oneself into true understanding about infinitude, but still I cannot let go the concept of it.

 

If reality is absolutely boundless, does that not mean that everything we are doing is in an absolute and total way fully meaningless? It confuses me that Leo keeps talking about the importance of enlightenment, or of any other thing in life. Is it not inevitable that god manifests all possible and impossible realities no matter what will happen in this reality?

Even if Leo gets enlightened now, has the best life he could possibly have, won't god experience a life in which Leo did fail? A life in which Leo never lost his weight and eventually got a heart attack? A life in which Leo keeps little children in his basement who he rapes every day? A life in which Leo, after reading this very sentence, is going to kill himself for no reason whatsoever?

And if that is not the case, then how can god be limitless and infinite? And if it indeed is the case, it means that god will experience Leo in every possible form there can be for eternity, and already has experienced all of Leo's possible and impossible life's. Is everything Leo doing not a reaction of his ego, an inability to surrender to the truth? And even if it is not the case, does there not have to exist a reality in which that necessarily is the case? Either way that would mean that no matter what Leo does he cannot avoid not experiencing all the possibilities, one day he will suffer, as an unsuccessful and miserable Leo.

 

I was thinking along these lines and then I remember something I have contemplated when I was a teenager. I had the intellectual recognition that reality had to be boundless a long time ago, by contemplating why reality would be the way it is and why it is not any other way. It seemed very obvious that there could not be anything that would limit reality, as anything that would limit it would itself have to be limited by something else so that it would limit reality in that particular way. But that begged a few very paradoxical questions:

If reality is truly boundless, then does there not have to exist a reality which cancels all other realities? A reality which stretches it's tentacles into all of the infinitude of reality to root it back into nothingness? And does there not have to exist a reality outside of ALL realities? It has to exist, after all reality cannot be limited, it cannot be bound whatsoever.

If this was the case though reality would be absolutely chaotic, nothing could exist because everything would immediately be taken apart by infinite destructive power, infinite death. There would be infinite realities popping into existence while immediately disappearing. It seems like these two elements would nullify each other, but then there would have to exist a reality in which they don't nullify each other.

 

And then today, when I remembered this, I suddenly had the idea that out of that process would have to evolve intelligence, much in the same way it does in our universe. There is a force of chaos and a force of order, and because all realities which do not have strong order would be ripped apart by chaos, there would only be those realities left which had a mechanism against this chaotic power. And because this chaotic power is infinite, the realities would have to construct themselves in an infinitely intelligent way. In other words, intelligence is and unlimited limit, a limit upon Chaos with a capital C.

It would be like survival and evolution were not mechanisms of nature, but rather metaphysical aspects that are unavoidable, and these aspects would then resonate into the realities which prevailed.

 

And now it is obvious for why reality has to be love. The only reality that could manifest and not be destroyed by infinite chaos would have to be a reality which infinitely loves it's manifestation, it's own existence. If it wasn't infinitely loving it's intelligence would not be concerned for the manifestation whatsoever. In a very real sense that would mean that love is a prerequisite for existence, for only that which loves itself will preserve itself. 

 

These aspects seem to reflect in some shape or form our ordinary consciousness, as we strive to survive because of our selfish love, and that reminds me of the saying that god created us in his own image. It almost seems like for structure to exist at all there needs to be a fundamental force which keeps it from dissolving, and that force simply is love. 

But then the question is, would the infinite destructive power not evolve too, being put under the same evolutionary pressures, to then destroy the infinitely loving reality? Would there not be a reality which infinitely loves destruction, death and suffering? And maybe that is what our reality is, a fight between these two forces?

 

It all just confuses me more and more, there is so much I have not even began to think about and it seems like this would go on and on for infinity. But then what is infinite intelligence, why does it exist? Does it exist precisely because this process goes on for infinity? I have no idea anymore.

 

I  guess what I would like to know is what infinite intelligence is, why it exists and whether it's existence means that not all realities will manifest, but only particular ones?

[Leo Gura]

Infinity does not necessarily work the way your mind imagines.

Reality is infinitely intelligent because it has unlimited power. In short, there is nothing to stop from being infinitely intelligent, so it is!

What you must understand is that there are no constraints on reality as a whole.

Reality is not random, arbitrary, or chaotic. It is fine-tuned by an infinite intellect which cannot ever be fully articulated, but you can become conscious that this is so.

[Shadowraix]

I'd say reality is random arbitrary and chaotic but its the opposite of those words at the exact same time and everything in between.

Paradox does not constrain infinity.

[Truth Addict]

@Shadowraix

Infinite Intelligence is not randomness.

Dreams are not random, they're just out of your control.

What governs them?

Is it chaos? Or God (infinite intelligence)?

[Shadowraix]

On 2/15/2019 at 10:41 PM, Truth Addict said:

@Shadowraix

Infinite Intelligence is not randomness.

Dreams are not random, they're just out of your control.

What governs them?

Is it chaos? Or God (infinite intelligence)?

Would it not be all of the above? All of these words you claim collapse in the source.

It is simultaneously designed and random.

Simultaneously ordered and chaotic.

Why? Because it is BOUNDLESS.

[Shadowraix]

On 2/15/2019 at 3:57 PM, Leo Gura said:

Reality is not random, arbitrary, or chaotic.

That alone is putting a constraint on reality.

For it to have no constraints would be for it to be all descriptors, some descriptors, and no descriptors. Simultaneously.

Perhaps this portion of reality only reveals some descriptors to us.

But really to apply any concept or to even try to speak of God is putting a constraint on it so it can't really be spoken about.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Truth Addict]

58 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

Would it not be all of the above? All of these words you claim collapse in the source.

It is simultaneously designed and random.

Simultaneously ordered and chaotic.

Why? Because it is BOUNDLESS.

I simply don't see chaos, why would I assume it? And what is the point of assuming that anyway?

God being boundless does not mean it should follow certain rules we create, that's why it's boundless.

Somehow, I find the boundlessness you're talking about kind of limiting.

I would also ask myself: what is chaos exactly?

Edited February 27, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Shadowraix]

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

I simply don't see chaos, why would I assume it? And what is the point of assuming that anyway?

God being boundless does not mean it should follow certain rules we create, that's why it's boundless.

Somehow, I find the boundlessness you're talking about kind of limiting.

I would also ask myself: what is chaos exactly?

To see it is not chaos and not random is limiting as well. Do you see the problem here? The second you try to describe what it is or even give any kind of word for it, you limit it because we can't comprehend it.

It transcends such paradoxes. 

The words I try to point to is releasing rules as much as I can through language.

To say it is all, some, and none of any descriptor is probably as close as you can get to describing boundless.

[Truth Addict]

@Shadowraix

What is chaos? Have you ever experienced randomness?

Yes, everything we say about God is not it, but still there are things that we can relate to through experience.

I suspect the problem on your part is that you think intelligence has an opposite, which is what you call chaos. But that's not true. Chaos is just a concept, whereas intelligence is an experience.

God is Intelligence.

Are we on the same page?

Edited February 27, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Shadowraix]

2 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

@Shadowraix

What is chaos? Have you ever experienced randomness?

Yes, everything we say about God is not it, but still there are things that we can relate to through experience.

I suspect the problem on your part is that you think intelligence has an opposite, which is what you call chaos. But that's not true. Chaos is just a concept, whereas intelligence is an experience.

God is Intelligence.

Are we on the same page?

Yes. When I experience order I also simultaneously experience disorder. They are two sides of the same coin. Depends on how you look at it. What could be total order in the working of infinite intelligence would be chaos from something that can't identify any pattern or order in it. 

We are not on the same page. 

To be infinitely intelligent also means to be non-intelligence simultaneously. And either or. 

To go deeper is to go beyond even the usefulness of words. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Truth Addict]

@Shadowraix

What is chaos? Please don't skip.

Give me one example of chaos.

My problem is that I only see order, help me see disorder.

[Truth Addict]

37 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

Yes. When I experience order I also simultaneously experience disorder. They are two sides of the same coin. Depends on how you look at it. What could be total order in the working of infinite intelligence would be chaos from something that can't identify any pattern or order in it.

I used to think that reality is random, but I was wrong.

Just because I don't "identify" any pattern or order, does not mean it's random. It means that I am not conscious enough to see reality as it is.

Does Mario need to be conscious of the order and design of Super Mario World for the game to be intelligent?

[Shin]

[Shadowraix]

17 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

I used to think that reality is random, but I was wrong.

Just because I don't "identify" any pattern or order, does not mean it's random. It means that I am not conscious enough to see reality as it is.

Does Mario need to be conscious of the order and design of Super Mario World for the game to be intelligent?

Stop seeing reality as either or. This is a duality that must collapse. I'm saying it is and isn't random simultaneously. Order and random point to the same thing! Randomness producing order. The absolute can do this. Do you grasp what being boundless means? Anything we try to say it is and is not is in actuality an error

17 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

@Shadowraix

What is chaos? Please don't skip.

Give me one example of chaos.

My problem is that I only see order, help me see disorder.

I already explained. It's the same debate of free will vs predetermined. The example is already right in front of you. What you see as order is also chaos and neither.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Truth Addict]

@Shadowraix

I understand that your point is that we can't project our ideas upon reality. And I agree, that is true, because reality does not have qualities we might say (of course, that would be limiting, so it does have qualities as well).

But on the other hand, intelligence is absolute, just like love and consciousness, they all point to the same thing: God.

There's nothing left for me to say.

I might be wrong, I think time will tell us both.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Joseph Maynor]

17 hours ago, Shin said:

Nice!  Being is not confusing.  It's thought that's confusing.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Joseph Maynor