Opposite of enlightenment.

[Jack River]

22 hours ago, DrewNows said:

@Jack RiverFosho dude 

Enlightenment is an idea and it does not point to experience 

Yeah maybe..

Or maybe it points to an experience as the experiencer(the past/the image projection/and pursuit of our very own invention).

Or are we referring to seeing with a cessation of experience? 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Jack River

[Leo Gura]

@ingurix In one sense: the opposite of enlightenment is ego, duality, Maya, or your present state of mind.

In another sense: enlightenment has no opposite because Truth has no opposite. Falsehood is not really opposite of Truth because Truth is all there is and falsehood isn't really a thing (it is an illusion).

From the unenlightened perspective enlightenment has an opposite.

From the enlightened perspective there never was such a thing as unenlightenment. Enlightenment is TOTAL and ever-present. It is the only thing that is ever occurring, has ever occurred, or can ever occur.

Enlightenment or nonduality means: no dualities, which means no opposites.

You're basically asking: What is the opposite of no-opposites? Lol

[DrewNows]

@Jack River people can misinterpret enlightenment all they want, they can try to define it, demonize it or whatever but it’s just a word used to describe the Truth beyond words/experience

and that’s just my belief ?

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by DrewNows

[Joseph Maynor]

12 hours ago, ingurix said:

@Joseph Maynor Why 'Enlightened Ego'?

Because in my teaching you never lose Ego, you only partially transcend and mediate Ego with No Ego.  I don’t look at Ego as being a monolith; rather, I see a spectrum with Ego that spans from the Unenlightened Ego to the Enlightened Ego.  In my teaching the Enlightened Ego is something beautiful not something to be despised.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Jack River]

21 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

people can misinterpret enlightenment

Right. There seems to be a projection of whether there is, or is not enlightenment, and a moving towards “it”. A self will not see that it has assumed it knows what enlightenment is and will pursue that assumption. Which is to pursue that of experience/knowledge(the past). 

 

21 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

it’s just a word used to describe the Truth beyond words/experience

To describe a seeing of what is. The what is of experience and perhaps beyond. 

As in to see without the burden of experience. 

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Jack River

[Jack River]

The self is conditioned to block itself from going beyond what it itself has deemed ‘the impossible’. It will say it’s either possible or impossible, yet will not say honestly don’t know, let’s find out. 

The self is not free to go beyond its own inherent limits.

It moves in its own groove. It's very nature implicitly establishes for itself its own prison walls in which that self enslaves itself perpetually. 

The Invention of the opposites and choosing between those opposites is a great example. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Jack River

[Willie]

On 1/5/2019 at 9:04 AM, ingurix said:

We all know that there is an ultimate stage of consciousness - enlightenment. However - is there an ultimate opposite of enlightenment, where one is so 'asleep' he can never be even more unawakened?

Endarkenment?

[Willie]

On 1/5/2019 at 4:12 PM, ivankiss said:

Endarkenment? 

Oops, he beat me to it...

[ingurix]

@Jack River That's a truly deep answer you gave. Now I have to think about it. Thank you!

[ingurix]

@Joseph Maynor So what you're saying is that Ego is ever-present?