Question: Leo's 10 Ox Herding Pics Video

[Shin]

4 hours ago, Preetom said:

Exactly! When you don't expect too much phenomenal extraordinary stuff, you won't get them(probably).

What you desperately expect, you get.

In many bhakti traditions, the seeker urges on to 'see' God as some sort of objective avatar in front of them. Many go Schizophrenic and downright nuts! They visualize on the form so much that they may get a glimpse 10-20 years down the road. But hey, it's their obsessive concentration on a form that materialized that form. It's because there is objective reality and whatever you deeply focus on, you get.

It's almost like 'mad' people on the street who are so obsessed with their internal dialog that they are unconsciously verbalizing it out loud as well.

These things sure are very wacky and powerful phenomenal experience. Is that Enlightenment? Not until that craving to form dissolves and you let go totally.

Yeah that kind of make sense.

I'd rather have no mystical experiences ever and merge with god sooner rather than the inverse.

I would prefer to be dead in one swoop and have no time to reflect or to cling to any experience ?

[now is forever]

?????? you guys are so funny

[Shin]

8 minutes ago, now is forever said:

?????? you guys are so funny

Why ?

Because it pisses you off that you are at your 20 mystical experiences and still can't catch the ox because you cling to what you saw and want it for YOU ?

 

????

[now is forever]

@Shin do i?am i?

well, a pattern on the ground, the moon shines bright, a grass bundle and a rope to bind ?

don‘t underestimate weeds.

Edited November 30, 2018 by now is forever

[WelcometoReality]

On 2018-11-29 at 0:18 PM, now is forever said:

that’s spooky

More spooky than it disappearing in the blink of an I? 

[WelcometoReality]

On 2018-11-29 at 0:26 PM, Shin said:

It kind of feels like that.

I'm confused with this model because I'm supposed to be at stage 2 (no mystical experiences, just glimpses), but at the same time I recognize myself in the later stages a lot.

Maybe it's not a complete model in your case. That would cause confusion for anybody.

Hey, what if you were in a city with a map that was made 50 years ago. The city would probably have been rebuilt several times after the map was made. It would probably create alot of frustration and confusion trying to find your way through the city with that map? 

Maybe it's better to toss the map and explore the city without it.

[Shin]

1 minute ago, WelcometoReality said:

Maybe it's not a complete model in your case. That would cause confusion for anybody.

Hey, what if you were in a city with a map that was made 50 years ago. The city would probably have been rebuilt several times after the map was made. It would probably create alot of frustration and confusion trying to find your way through the city with that map? 

Maybe it's better to toss the map and explore the city without it.

Yeah that's what I'm doing now, the screen analogy from Ruper Spira is super powerful.

It's exactly how it feel if you focus super hard, but I know I didn't even scratched the surface yet.

[WelcometoReality]

On 2018-11-29 at 0:27 PM, Preetom said:

Yeah there are cases like that as well. Suzuki Roshi was such an example.

Once his students asked him why he never talks about his own enlightenment experience. His wife stood up from the back and replied, ''Because he never had one''.

Really the reaction of body-mind towards Clear seeing/Enlightenment varies a lot from person to person. That's why no specific phenomenal experience should be taken as some sort of standard or inherent in Enlightenment.

I guess it does. And maybe it depends on the practice one has as well?

[Nahm]

10 Ox pics, in a simple flash card style...

http://www.buddhanet.net/oxherd1.htm

[now is forever]

@Shin it looks like you are going to catch a reindeer, or another fast runner - i hope it’s not @WelcometoReality

[Shin]

4 minutes ago, now is forever said:

@Shin it looks like you are going to catch a reindeer, or another fast runner - i hope it’s not @WelcometoReality

 

What the hell are you talking about ?  

Are you alright man ?  

[now is forever]

@Shin yes, i‘m on dada today - it’s a really good drug.