Does Enlightenment Exist?

[cetus]

@SkyPanther @SkyPanther I look at it this way, if Jesus achieved that level of Conscionsceness and selflessness and could stay in that state of cessation, even if he did survive the cross and "Rose again" he was of higher realm. There is more than one story here.

[SkyPanther]

3 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@SkyPanther @SkyPanther I look at it this way, if Jesus achieved that level of Conscionsceness and selflessness and could stay in that state of cessation, even if he did survive the cross and "Rose again" he was of higher realm. There is more than one story here.

*nod*... that's possible.  He could have looked dead, by all accounts (not like they had a doctor check him) and he was actually in this state of cessation until he was sealed up. 

An interesting conjecture. Makes sense though. 

Edited April 6, 2016 by SkyPanther

[Natasha]

@cetus56 @SkyPanther

Interesting facts and records telling a different story about Jesus. It suggests he was in India learning from the Buddhist teachings during the 'missing' years (12-30 yo), and after crucifixion was secretly transported back to India for burial, where his tomb still bears his name

 

 

 

 

[SkyPanther]

2 minutes ago, Natasha said:

@cetus56 @SkyPanther

Interesting facts and records telling a different story about Jesus. It suggests he was in India learning from the Buddhist teachings during the 'missing' years (12-30 yo), and after crucifixion was secretly transported back to India for burial, where his tomb still bears his name

 

 

 

 

 *nod*, this is what I saw in the past as well.

There is also some interesting scriptures in Christianity that back the idea:

Buddhism and Gnosticism

http://gnosis.org/thomasbook/ch22.html

 

Personally, I think it is possible as the early Christians were very close to yogis.  But the Roman Church pretty much destroyed that tradition, so now a lot of it is being reconstructed from some obscure texts, and recent discoveries.

[Henri]

In Nag Hammadi they have found a lot of gospels including the gospel of Thomas.

Reading this looks a lot like the Vedanta teachings.

By the way I have visited the the tomb of Thomas, it`s in Chennai, Tamil Nadu up on a hill. The road to the top is symbolizing the road Jesus took to Golgotha. At the top is a small church with paintings of all the disciples. Up to now there is living the oldest known Jewish community outside Israel.

[Leo Gura]

@stephanie The problem is that you're stuck looking at this from the level of beliefs, which is a pretty limit and fallacious level.

Ask yourself why your mind is unwilling to be open to radical possibilities about reality?

Do you really feel that mainstream society has the nature of reality itself figured out?

[Dash Us Pain]

everything exists provided there is a believer in existence. impossible is no-thing.

 

[Tonyb]

I think this is an important question. Not being sure if it is a real possibility will affect a persons motivation to do the work.  

Is anyone on this forum actually enlightened and have some input?

Is it true enlightened people are aware of their surroundings during sleep? 

Seems to me this could be easily tested and would show people it is a real thing. This would motivate the world to do the work. Has anyone heard of any tests like this? 

 

[Dodo]

11 hours ago, Tonyb said:

Is it true enlightened people are aware of their surroundings during sleep? 

Seems to me this could be easily tested and would show people it is a real thing. This would motivate the world to do the work. Has anyone heard of any tests like this? 

 

There are tests where they stick some stuff on your head and measure your brain activity during sleep and detect whether you are conscious during the sleep or not. The thing is, people can achieve this through practice. I don't think you need to be enlightened to stay conscious through all the stages of sleep, even though I've read that you have to be a real master to do it (so maybe you do have to be enlightened). It's a Tibetan yoga thing, and I really like the topic of sleep, dreams and being conscious while asleep. Maybe I should return to the practice.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Dodoster

[Tonyb]

Ok. Maybe you don't need to be enlightened to be conscious during sleep but that would be enough to suggest to me at least that there is something going on here beyond a "normal" persons experience. 

All that would need to be done is to have a person with this ability fall asleep. Have something happening in their environment while they are asleep and ask them to recall anything that happened around them while they were asleep. Has anything like this been done?

[cetus]

@Tonyb   Just last night I woke from sleep to take a piss. I got back in bed and stayed aware that I was falling back into sleep. I thought to myself " why not stay aware going back in". I was exploring all kinds of things happening within awareness.  Than I started to consciously generate the experience at will.   It started off as a kind psychedelic trip like google deep dream, even better. Unimaginable colors and shapes that don't exist in reality and I was making it all happen. I explored that for a little while than I changed it up to more of a reality based dream and explored that until I finally fell off into deep sleep again. That's as far as I can get. That would be like a twilight sleep but still, it was very cool just to explore!

[cetus]

15 hours ago, Tonyb said:

Is it true enlightened people are aware of their surroundings during sleep?

Mothers of newborns do it all the time.

[Guest SCM]

I’ve been away for a while doing a lot of digging about enlightenment. I appreciate all your comments and I can say I’ve come a bit further in reading between people’s words. So many opinions and definitions but what really connects with me is what Osho said. There is one particular video where he describes enlightenment. For anyone interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYIA2YMpE8w

[cetus]

@stephanie I was also digging around about enlightenment. Do you know what I discovered? I don't occupy this space, This space occupies me.

[ngolokante]

2 hours ago, stephanie said:

 

I’ve been away for a while doing a lot of digging about enlightenment. I appreciate all your comments and I can say I’ve come a bit further in reading between people’s words. So many opinions and definitions but what really connects with me is what Osho said. There is one particular video where he describes enlightenment. For anyone interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYIA2YMpE8w

 

That video sounds so different from what (I've heard) Leo say

[Guest SCM]

@Leo Gura So how does your belief "the need to erase your knowledge graph to become enlightened" differ from other believes? It's still a belief, isn't it? 

[Infinite]

@stephanie Enlightenment is not a belief. Enlightenment is what's left when all beliefs about reality have been eradicated.

Anything that is said about enlightenment or how to attain it will sound like a belief, only because we have to use language in order to speak about it. 

Anything that is ever said about enlightenment is not true. The only purpose of language is to point one in the direction of truth, but the words themselves will never be true.  

You have to read between the lines of what was said, and stop looking at it from the level of thoughts/beliefs.

[Guest SCM]

But why inventing a whole process to become "enlightened"? All it really is, it is dropping all believes, even the one of enlightenment. Being silent, enjoying pure existence and just be. Life for what life is! No need to "do" hours of meditation every day, if life BECOMES meditation.

[Infinite]

@stephanie The point of the process is to untangle yourself from the illusion that's been created. You're not currently capable of enjoying reality as it is. How could you enjoy reality as it is when you believe that you're an individual self? Believing that there is a self, implies that there is a division between you and the rest of reality. You cannot possibly enjoy reality for what it is, when you believe yourself to be something that is separate from it. The point of the process is to merge with reality itself, which only then can you truly "enjoy pure existence and just be". If you think otherwise, try to sit and be for 4 hours without moving, and watch what happens. You'll see that you're completely incapable of doing so, and this is why we undergo the process. 

[Natasha]

47 minutes ago, stephanie said:

But why inventing a whole process to become "enlightened"? All it really is, it is dropping all believes, even the one of enlightenment. Being silent, enjoying pure existence and just be. Life for what life is! No need to "do" hours of meditation every day, if life BECOMES meditation.

I agree, hours of meditation are not necessary to see the truth/ reality as it is. It's a sudden realization, a shift in perspective. It's when the subjective is no more. Pointing out to this ego-less paradigm is what I find invaluable in Leo's teaching. And before him in Tolle's teachings. So you could say it's a process, a path. And it stops when you become/ embody what you've been seeking. 

Edited April 28, 2016 by Natasha