Question about the Mechanism of Enlightenment

[SoonHei]

Hi All,

My first post/topic here. Nice to meet you all, God bless.

I have a question about the state/experience of enlightenment.

I like to read about the "moment of enlightenment" for people... About how it happened for them, or what they saw/felt/experienced.

For example: for Sadhguru, he says when he first experienced enlightenment, his vision became 360°.

Is that something which would happen to every enlightened being?

 

Does Rupert Spira for example have this too?

 

Or is that state something which is temporary also? 

Many spiritual teachers whose content I follow on YouTube - Mooji, Francis, Rupert, Eckhart, Adyashanti... 

 

So when these teachers are sitting there in Satsang and teaching, are they in that state? With 360° vision and all?

 

Or is that a state they can easily go to at will?

 

Also when leo did that live enlightenment video and when he says this is absolute infinity etc... Is he seeing 360° around him? Or conscious of the whole reality?

 

 

Second question:

 

When people on the path of enlightenment / spirituality say that they have had "glimpses" 

 

What is that being referred to? Is that once again to the experience of enlightenment? But it's very brief and without ego-death?

Are those people you see in some videos on YouTube in Mooji's Satsang / papaji etc who are having a moment of awakening... Is that the real awakening which Buddah/Mooji/Sadhguru have or is that a glimpse?

 

[Leo Gura]

I think you are misunderstanding what Sadhguru meant by 360 vision. It's not literal, it's metaphorical.

Your FOV does not change.

The sense in which your vision becomes 360 is that you become conscious that the self is not located behind the eyes in the skull, so your consciousness becomes omnipresent. This does NOT mean you can see behind your skull. Its means that your normal field of vision becomes recontextualized in a way that cannot easily be explained in words.

In a nutshell, perception becomes Being. You become the entire visual field. You become the world. The boundary between your body or sense of self and the world disappears. You are AWAKE.

It's not really possible to imagine what being AWAKE means until you are AWAKE.

The best description of it is, it's like waking up from a dream.

[SoonHei]

Wow... I get a reply from The Man himself.

 

It's an honor Sir Leo!

 

Thank you for the explanation! I suppose whatever the true experience may be, is indeed absolutely ineffable.

[Rebec]

@SoonHei about your second question;

2 hours ago, SoonHei said:

When people on the path of enlightenment / spirituality say that they have had "glimpses" 

What is that being referred to? Is that once again to the experience of enlightenment? But it's very brief and without ego-death?

Watch Shinzen Young;

https://youtu.be/x8aN9O73lgg

https://youtu.be/0PQonSiGkVE

https://youtu.be/Ozca_5ifwQ0

 

[SoonHei]

4 minutes ago, Rebec said:

@SoonHei about your second question;

Watch Shinzen Young;

https://youtu.be/x8aN9O73lgg

https://youtu.be/0PQonSiGkVE

https://youtu.be/Ozca_5ifwQ0

 

Thank you. Will check it out

[Leo Gura]

@Outer I can imagine that something like what your video is showing could be possible. That would be an insane degree of consciousness. I haven't yet experienced that on 5-MeO.

That degree of consciousness would be inaccessible to all but the most hardcore practitioners. You ain't gonna get that through ordinary meditation or self-inquiry.

A massive dose 5-MeO might do it. Or you would have to be a super-yogi, like Sadhguru.

Change of the FOV would be something you could get on a high dose of LSD. But that's not enlightenment per se.

[SoonHei]

@Leo Gura

Question please.

For someone like yourself who has had many breakthrough/enlightening experiences... how does that compare to Sadhguru/Ruper Spira/Mooji etc?

Like for them, during their each individual path, they have surrenedered and detached so much that when they finally had the last layer stripped away from them of the ego, they are able to remain in that state permanently?

so for you, when you did the 1-month off goal for May 2018 - that was an attempt to become like them? in permanent state of bliss? you are not able to remain in that state as they are because you still have some ego/attachments left?

just trying to understand the process... i dont know if i overthink this tbh... 

like often, i wonder if that "infinite love that one feels like they are drowning in" is a state that all these sages can just tap into at will thruout the day?

[Guest Quanty]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I think you are misunderstanding what Sadhguru meant by 360 vision. It's not literal, it's metaphorical.

Your FOV does not change.

The sense in which your vision becomes 360 is that you become conscious that the self is not located behind the eyes in the skull, so your consciousness becomes omnipresent. This does NOT mean you can see behind your skull. Its means that your normal field of vision becomes recontextualized in a way that cannot easily be explained in words.

In a nutshell, perception becomes Being. You become the entire visual field. You become the world. The boundary between your body or sense of self and the world disappears. You are AWAKE.

It's not really possible to imagine what being AWAKE means until you are AWAKE.

The best description of it is, it's like waking up from a dream.

Wrong. I can use the 6th sense to see in 360 degrees. I think you conceptualize too much without real experience. 

<3

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, SoonHei said:

For someone like yourself who has had many breakthrough/enlightening experiences... how does that compare to Sadhguru/Ruper Spira/Mooji etc?

Well, firstly, you have no idea what those people experience or know. And you never will. You can only know what you know.

Secondly, I am not enlightened, although I have seen the Absolute. I imagine those folks are enlightened, although how deeply, we will never really know.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Quanty said:

Wrong. I can use the 6th sense to see in 360 degrees. I think you conceptualize too much without real experience. 

<3

If you can do that, then you've got something cool going beyond my understanding.

But that itself is not what enlightenment is.

I don't want people to get the idea that enlightenment means seeing 360 degrees. That will get them chasing something else.

[Joseph Maynor]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, firstly, you have no idea what those people experience or know. And you never will. You can only know what you know.

Secondly, I am not enlightened, although I have seen the Absolute. I imagine those folks are enlightened, although how deeply, we will never really know.

If you’re not Enlightened, how can you teach Enlightenment?  I’m thinking your concept of what you think Enlightenment is is probably way off.  But that’s all a thought-story you’re clinging to.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

@Joseph Maynor Like I said, I've seen the Absolute.

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Joseph Maynor Like I said, I've seen the Absolute.

I’ll take your word for it.  I don’t think you wanna be challenged on it.  I won’t push you on it here.  But I would push you on it if we were having a face-to-face private conversation.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[cirkussmile]

Enlightenment is not a state. 

Life is pain and pleasure, ups and downs. The “me” who decides whether pain or pleasure is good or not will fade away when enlightenment happens and completely disappear as it deepens. What’s left when there is no one judging life as it is?

Pain is not a problem, it only becomes a problem if someone holds on to it. This someone disappears with enlightenment. 

Enlightenment is the end of personal suffering. When suffering does happen it is seen as completely impersonal and therefore it allows it to be without resisting it. Acceptance is not suffering. 

In a way, enlightenment is an attitude to life. 

Enlightenment is when beliefs about who you are falls away. 

You can’t do anything for enlightenment to happen just like you can’t do anything about the sun going up tomorrow morning. 

Enlightenment feels absolutely normal.

 

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, cirkussmile said:

Enlightenment is not a state. 

Life is pain and pleasure, ups and downs. The “me” who decides whether pain or pleasure is good or not will fade away when enlightenment happens and completely disappear as it deepens. What’s left when there is no one judging life as it is?

Pain is not a problem, it only becomes a problem if someone holds on to it. This someone disappears with enlightenment. 

Enlightenment is the end of personal suffering. When suffering does happen it is seen as completely impersonal and therefore it allows it to be without resisting it. Acceptance is not suffering. 

In a way, enlightenment is an attitude to life. 

Enlightenment is when beliefs about who you are falls away. 

You can’t do anything for enlightenment to happen just like you can’t do anything about the sun going up tomorrow morning. 

Enlightenment feels absolutely normal.

 

Thank you.  

Edited July 1, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[cirkussmile]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Thank you.

I love you

[Guest Quanty]

On 01.07.2018 at 2:11 AM, Leo Gura said:

If you can do that, then you've got something cool going beyond my understanding.

But that itself is not what enlightenment is.

I don't want people to get the idea that enlightenment means seeing 360 degrees. That will get them chasing something else.

Is just a bonus for being awake.