To you advanced actualizers - Can one be too good?

[tsuki]

21 minutes ago, Faceless said:

I understand, but how do you know that this is so?

Because I recognize that what was called thought is a part of me that is equal to other parts that are in balance. None is more important than other.
Thought stays in motion, but to say that thought guides my action is like saying that a car that drives by guides my action. It doesn't make sense.
If there is anything that drives me, it is something from beyond thought. It is something that I am yet to explore to arrive at stillness.
I feel like a newborn that starts to speak. The drive to explore is insatiable. 

I can see thought as a loop that reinforces its own movement, interacting with things that I previously saw as residing in different categories.
Thought is like a ruler that you can measure things with at different scales. It has no substance of its own. It is of no interest for me and I let it do its own thing.

32 minutes ago, Faceless said:

How does one know that thought has not attributed to itself an independent existence that it is indeed separate from thought? 

By treating various, disjoint, categories of existence as equivalent, and being open for thought to manifest a pattern with a model with sufficient ambiguity.

[tsuki]

31 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Cultivation of growth is a necessity to some in practical/functional area of life, but my point is in the psychological field it has no place. When all that condition movement of the self seeking psychological security ends, only then does the “spiritual timeless” come into being. 

You see my point here? 

For me, cultivation is not a word that I would use.
It is anticipation for growth to manifest itself.

But I see your point. You cannot make yourself grow with thought, as I understood it.

[Faceless]

My main point is only thought/self desires to grow/anticipates.

You see what I mean? 

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

As long as all that is in movement there is no ultimate freedom. 

When all that ends, only then I would say we are in touch with....

23 minutes ago, tsuki said:

is something from beyond thought

All movement of thought/time, must end for that which is beyond thought to manifest in and as action. 

I think it would be much easier to explain this if your were empty of all past experience, knowledge, memory, psychologically that is. 

But like you said, there may be a miscommunication sill preventing communion between one another. That is the problem when we interpret what one another is saying according to past accumulation/content/and movement of the self. The content and the movement of self are one and the same. 

So communication can at times be tricky indeed. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Faceless

[MarkusSweden]

4 hours ago, tsuki said:

Your model of growth that you habitually use to judge others is too constrained.
You need to make it more ambiguous to be more generous with your interpretations of others' behavior.

You know my story bro! 

I had to LEARN how to judge again!

Can you imagine what a hell that was?

When you see how incredible Beautiful and perfect every being is. And you must find a way to look upon Those in a critical way again, just as I Did many years ago. 

I tell you, that is a Journey of hell raised to the power of hell. 

Not only that, This is how twisted it is, please try to follow me, and sorry for my broken english btw, I know it's a drag to read. Some of it you are familiar with already, but I try to explain it better.

Anyway, imagine you have a perspective of life/reality in such a way that that everything is beautiful, in a way that reality and everything in it contains so much beauty your heart can almost not handle it. You see how every being is so perfectly complete, a formation of Love. 

And you know that Everyone feels and experience the same. But you start to find out that it only happens when you are together with others. Somehow you have the psycic power to let others to see the world as you do when you interact.

You shake them psycologically in an infinite way. You become a figure of light where everybody notice your presence and are madly drawn to it.

You notice that there is something really special about your perspective, that it is really rare, infact you are the only one having it, with the power to share it when in interactions.

However, there is another perspective, the Collective consciousness perspective let's say. You know there is that other perspective, But you have no clue what it's all about, you have since long forgot. You only know that it's something dark, at least darker. 

But you can't get a taste of that perspective, because you elevate others to your perspective. 

And you know you can't really move in society, other Then casual interactions with people. Because, if you go to a workplace let's say, you will elevate the whole workplace to your level of awareness, at the same time all the structures of that workplace are build upon and sustain upon structures of This other perspective. You see how you run into a syntax error? 

Finally you understand that the world is not build around your perspective at all, even though everything you come in contact with transforms into your consciousness. But again, you can never let your perspective become a big movement because of This syntax error since the world spins around This other perspective. 

Ok, so now you try to transcend This state of love, bliss, perfect understanding to adopt to that common perspective of others. You really have to create anger, fear, hate out of thin air constantly for years. Those two perspectives are really two completely different realms. You can't allowed yourself any happiness. 

Let's refer to Those states or perspectives as absolute and relative perspectives. You transcend the absolute to get back to relative again. 

Let's say This absolute perspective, the perspective of Love, beauty understanding, truth was a deluded state, just for the sake of reasoning. And that the relative perspective that others have(when they are not affected by your presence) we suggest that it is the sober one, the real true perspective. 

So you Cure a mania one Could say. You go from a deluded state of heaven to a true state of "hell". Now that is ofcourse difficult, years of literary hell on the Journey back to hell, in order to come back to ordinary relative perspective. 

But This is not the case. That's why I Said the Journey back is not only hell, But hell raised to the power of hell! Because you don't leave a deluded state of heaven to travel to a true state of hell. It's the other way around. You travel back from the true state of heaven to a deluded state of hell, and you know you must do it. Because This world doesn't spin around that heavenly perspective/consciousness.

somehow the world has to get rid of you otherwise. But it's not really accurate to put it like that, it's more at stake, not just your life. MUCH MORE.

I remember one time when I was in between Those states, my Brother was visiting me, and since he is my brother and since I was on my Journey back, he wasn't affected to that state of awareness that still had residues in me. And I remember he Said something judgemental about a person, nothing special, he just Said someone was a bit wierd.

And I remember what a chock that was. It was impossible to comprehend, I thought he was joking. Again, a syntax error happened in me. How can one judge another, it's impossible, Everyone is perfect! 

That was First time I met This relative perspective again face to face. 

@tsuki You know you were the First one I told, only you and faceless know my story, hehe faceless, he couldn't care less, Love him for that, just as much as I Love you Listening. ?

For some reason I couldn't have telled anyone earlier, all the residues had to leave, otherwise I don't know what would have happened, there is so much power and responsibility to that state of awareness I had. Maybe the universe would have imploded or something just by mention it, now it's just a Buch of words. 

Also, now, when I find myself in the relative realm again. I Could see how infinitely naive I was. I mean really infinite naive. Isn't it ironic? You are naive when you know the truth But don't know how to be deluded is a certain way. 

You don't know how the world looks like from one eye when you have two eyes. You must find a way to carve out one eye so to speak to be able to function in society of one eyed humans. The whole of language is more or less a one eye phenomenon, if you get the metaphor.

I was infinitely naive because I saw that Everyone was perfect, beautiful. I saw who they truly were. But they themselves didn't know who they truly were. And I didn't know that, because it was the most obvious thing in the world to see who others as Well as myself was. And they only get glimps of that in my presence.

It was First after I start my Journey back when people didn't lose their deluded self and tasted their true self in my presence any longer that I really saw face to face how they didn't know themselves. And now I am one of them..

What to say? Shit happens, hey. 

It's a little bit Sad though that my life mission didn't work out. It just started with a desire dig deep into leadership and it put me on the greatest Journey ever, it was personal development at its best not knowing I Did exactly that. Guided by my intuition for years, it was crazy. 

 

 

[who chit]

 

Quote

How does one know that thought has not attributed to itself an independent existence that it is indeed separate from thought? 

Until one has reached that level of insight and/or perception,they don't. The purpose of spiritual practice is to bring one to that level of inner awareness in which this movement is seen for what it is. Even then It is rare (for most),that this awakening, permanently ends the thought identity for good. Some sort of continued effort is needed to establish one back in their true nature of timeless being. Effort/practices will naturally end because they will no longer be needed.

When the fruit is ripe,it will fall.

Edited June 25, 2018 by who chit

[Hsinav]

 

On 2018-06-23 at 6:10 PM, MarkusSweden said:

Some of you are up there at yellow, turquoise or even higher. 

The final (only) step in personal development is to realise that there are no scales to anything ultimately, then you can go back to scales, models to improve yourself but that is just cosmetics. Which there is nothing wrong with at all.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Hsinav

[tsuki]

@MarkusSweden I will reply to your post tomorrow. It's getting late, gotta get some sleep .

[MarkusSweden]

21 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@MarkusSweden I will reply to your post tomorrow. It's getting late, gotta get some sleep .

Sounds great, time for bed here too! ?

[tsuki]

22 hours ago, MarkusSweden said:

And you know you can't really move in society, other Then casual interactions with people. Because, if you go to a workplace let's say, you will elevate the whole workplace to your level of awareness, at the same time all the structures of that workplace are build upon and sustain upon structures of This other perspective. You see how you run into a syntax error? 

@MarkusSweden 
From my point of view, material reality is perspective-independent. You can apply many perspectives on top of it and you will get different results depending on the definition of the current perspective. When your mind becomes open enough so that you do not fear ambiguity, you can inspect your models of reality closely to see that they are, in fact, hollow. Words have many different meanings and if you do not inspect them, you may run into a trap of thinking that your models are reality. The moment that you think that something is obvious is the moment that you missed your judgement.

The same reasoning applies to prediction of people's motivation. People do hings for all kinds of reasons and assuming upfront that they are stupid is the expression of your model of society. You should learn your own stupidity, so that the word 'stupid' becomes emotionally neutral. It has to stops meaning 'the other person'. Learning all of the wicked sides of your personality is a very potent equalizer of judgement. There is no such thing as collective unconscious in reality. Perhaps I have not yet awakened to the degree you have been describing.

23 hours ago, MarkusSweden said:

You travel back from the true state of heaven to a deluded state of hell, and you know you must do it. Because This world doesn't spin around that heavenly perspective/consciousness.

somehow the world has to get rid of you otherwise. But it's not really accurate to put it like that, it's more at stake, not just your life. MUCH MORE.

This is why material world has to be perspective-neutral. The state of consciousness cannot be something externally observable.
This is why spiral dynamics is cyclic. There is no way to tell from your perspective whether somebody else is lower or higher than you. You can only tell whether they are on even, or on odd stage (with respect to you), but never if they are lower or higher. The world is relative to perspective you have and perspectives are disjoint. I think that judgement of others is self-miscommunication. A lack of mastery of the mind. Unfortunate, but common.

23 hours ago, MarkusSweden said:

And I remember what a chock that was. It was impossible to comprehend, I thought he was joking. Again, a syntax error happened in me. How can one judge another, it's impossible, Everyone is perfect! 

Not perfect, but essentially unknowable. Saying something about somebody else is an expression of your understanding of the world. Negative judgement is an expression of misaligned perspectives.

23 hours ago, MarkusSweden said:

You don't know how the world looks like from one eye when you have two eyes. You must find a way to carve out one eye so to speak to be able to function in society of one eyed humans. The whole of language is more or less a one eye phenomenon, if you get the metaphor.

I do. This is a clue however. The one-eyedness is the reason of ambiguity.
Instead of saying that it is a flaw, embrace it to become free.
True freedom lies in perfect balance. Not a balance on top of a mountain so that a small wind tips you over to fall.
It is a balance in a valley. A beach ball does not care for storm, as it is all the same to it which direction is up and which is down.
It is not stable, nor unstable. It is a neutral balance. (See the article)