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7thLetter

Why am I always so inconsistent in relationships?

12 posts in this topic

Strong introvert, INTP here. And I'm not talking romantic relationships, but relationships with people in general. One day I'm very comfortable speaking to this person or that person at my workplace, and good friend's with that person, but the next day it's like I've never met them before. In a way its like I'm ignoring them. Could it be a common behavior of the INTP personality type? Or maybe it's a common behavior of the Spiral Dynamics stage yellow type? Maybe I'm ignoring them because I'm too comfortable with my solitude and don't want to spend my social energy? And as a result of all this 'cold' or 'aloof' behavior, people get angry at me. Maybe because they have some insecurities and think that I dislike them, but in reality its more of the fact that I don't want to spend my social energy. Sometimes I think to myself, why does it matter to them so much what I think and if I'm not talking to them, and I also dismiss it as "its okay they're just insecure." Because I'm not really doing anything wrong, I'm just being myself. But, sometimes I come off as a 'social' person at times. My mood is all over the place, sometimes I like socializing when I'm in a good mood, but often times I'm in a tired mood if I don't get enough sleep or if I don't eat enough, etc. So I definitely understand their point of view if they see that I'm capable of being loud and talkative, but sometimes not. And even talkative with other people, but not talkative around this or that person. I don't have a lot or any friends I hang out with these days, and I don't 'need' any. I love my solitude. People take a lot of my energy and time, I just want to focus on what I value and get my shit together first before anything else. But this behavior has happened with almost every workplace that I've worked at. My whole life I've been working at a ton of restaurants in the front of house. I understand I'm seen as social at times but at the core I'm an introvert. So every time I have some people getting angry at me because I don't talk to them. It doesn't bother me TOO much, but just a bit and that's why I'm writing this post.

These days I try to find jobs where I don't have to work with as many people. My dream job is to just trade the markets and live off of that.

Anyone have any advice or thoughts on why I might be this way? I don't think its just that ONE thing that causes me to be this way, but its definitely a combination of several things like, possibly stage Yellow behavior, INTP behavior, and I used to do pickup so that might have added onto the cold behavior.


"Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." - Albert Einstein

 

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22 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

My mood is all over the place, sometimes I like socializing when I'm in a good mood, but often times I'm in a tired mood if I don't get enough sleep or if I don't eat enough

The reason you socialize more when you're in a good mood is that you are at higher vibrational frequency. When you're tired, you're at a lower vibrational frequency and so you want to conserve energy.

This is why I don't like the whole "introvert / extrovert" debate. It largely ignores energetic realities and the power of the mind over our personalities.

The reason people who call themselves introverts get tired after socializing is that they're expending massive amounts of energy overthinking and analyzing everything. It's exhausting.

Just look back at what you wrote in this post. Look at all the questions you're asking. Look how your mind is trying to understand and analyzing every possible little detail. All that mental chatter cost energy and is draining you.

When I go out socializing, I know I'm doing well if I'm gaining energy and I know I'm doing poorly if I'm losing energy.

Gaining energy = present to the moment, free flowing, authentic.

Losing energy = stuck in my head, putting on a social mask, overthinking.

This has nothing to do with being an introvert or extrovert. It has to do with whether you're TAPPED IN to the infinite source of energy all around us, or if you've cut yourself off by thinking too much and not allowing the energy the move through you.


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If your stage red or higher, sprial dynamics have very little to do with your ability to make long lasting relationships. It might dictate what you think about and hence what you talk about but otherwise it’s very unimportant.

You can befriend people of all kinds of stages and tiers, although you most likely prefer people in the same stage. 

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1 hour ago, aurum said:

The reason people who call themselves introverts get tired after socializing is that they're expending massive amounts of energy overthinking and analyzing everything. It's exhausting.

That's me xD Sometimes I am like saying somthing and someone responds and then in my mind I go: "No, no, I am in the middle of my three sentence sequence I have already prepared to say out loud, don't fuck it up for me".

But @aurum , you didn't give any method as to how to change that. Ok, I am at the party, getting tired from socialization, probably thinking too much, I notice that and then what? How do I switch to the second mode, where I am not that self-absorbed?

@7thLetter BTW, nothing personal, but how did you figure out that you are on the yellow stage? Based on how you describe your problem and your dream job (trading the markets), it gives a vibe of someone who is on a stage orange. Are you sure you haven't done a mistake of adding two levels more than your current level?

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1 hour ago, Girzo said:

But @aurum , you didn't give any method as to how to change that. Ok, I am at the party, getting tired from socialization, probably thinking too much, I notice that and then what? How do I switch to the second mode, where I am not that self-absorbed?

It's not that simple, overthinking is not something you can just solve with a 1-2-3 step formula. You've got to put in the work meditating, doing yoga, healing old traumas etc. That's a long term commitment.

But if you really want something you can do in the moment, make an idiot of yourself. Do something that feels so embarrassing that there's no more point monitoring your impression anymore.

The key is that it actually has to feel uncomfortable, not theoretically uncomfortable. You really have to stretch it. But once you do, you are going to feel like a completely different person.

For instance, something I'll do if I'm out at a bar or nightclub is just start shaking my entire body. It looks absolutely ridiculous and I don't want to do it. But almost inevitably nobody actually gives a shit. And you realize that you cared so much about protecting nothing at all.


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33 minutes ago, aurum said:

For instance, something I'll do if I'm out at a bar or nightclub is just start shaking my entire body. It looks absolutely ridiculous and I don't want to do it. But almost inevitably nobody actually gives a shit. And you realize that you cared so much about protecting nothing at all.

You, sir, are a legend.

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@Girzo People who are stage orange will assume they are stage yellow. It’s extremely common, one might even say a inherent trait of stage orange.

So the key is knowing if you been in stage green at some point. Because you don’t go backwards obviously.

 

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@Spiral @Girzo Thanks for the comments, it has lead me to do a bit of self-reflection and looking back into the different stages out there.

What I’m saying here will be based on my own knowledge of the Spiral Dynamics model, Leo’s video, and the website http://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/

So let me explain. @Spiral Replying to your first comment, the reason why I mention it could be a behavior of the stage yellow paradigm is because it is mentioned on that site that, “stage yellow may seem cold and distant as they may forget to connect with people at times (because of their enthusiasm).” I would describe that as their enthusiasm with their inner world since they are often times creating models in their head and analyzing almost everything that is on their mind. So yes I agree with you that the different stages don’t have a lot to do with building relationships because I do socialize with anyone out there for fun but mainly I am often times in my head analyzing things. And that is a huge part of it as well that I mostly prefer people of the same stage, hence the reason I don’t hang out with anyone because most people I meet don’t understand the way I think.

@Girzo@Spiral Now replying to both of your comments, I’m kind of getting the feeling that you two are judging me by a single post I made and trying to make the assumption and say that I am in fact stage orange. But I can also make the assumption and say that you two are not seeing the bigger picture here and taking into consideration what I have been through in my 22 years of existence, the fact that I might have wrote this post after work while my emotions are all bottled up, the fact that you two have never met me in person, a possible misunderstanding of how the spiral dynamics model works, and a possibility that I might be stage turquoise and that this could be a social experiment to see if people will judge me by a single post online. (Not saying it is an experiment but that’s a possibility.)

I’d say its pretty difficult to determine what stage you truly are, but I agree with what Spiral last said. Which is the fact that you have to go through stage green in order to get to stage yellow. But let me give you guys a little bit of my life story so maybe now it will all come together. I have been through stage blue, which is when I was highly religious. I was a Christian. Then when I was in the stage Orange paradigm, that is when I did the Pyramid scheme stuff or Multi-level marketing, whatever you want to call it. I was highly materialistic, I loved cars, all I wanted was a Lamborghini Aventador. I would manipulate people, and only cared about success. People in the same MLM business were Christian too and so was I so we always went to church on sundays and valued God. So you can tell they’re stage Blue/Orange. Did MLM for a year. Then I transitioned into doing cold-approach pickup while I was still in the stage orange paradigm. I was also self-actualizing on the side meditating, etc. did this for a year and halfway through the year I could tell that I’m slowly transitioning into stage green. Caring about the girl’s feelings, only caring about getting a girlfriend, while my wings only wanted to get laid. Highly empathetic and sensitive. I even went to a rave one time and literally saw some 16-18 year old kid OD on the floor, saw some chick having a seizure, and I remember talking to my wing saying “all they wanted to do is have fun..” Cause I cared about them. My wings didn’t understand the way I thought, I was always different from the other PUAs and everyone else was about selfishness and getting results. In the stage green paradigm I felt like I was hurting other people and myself so I quit pickup. So now we can say here that I have a really good understanding of the stage orange paradigm cause I’ve been surrounded by A LOT of it in my past life from meeting network-marketers, to PUAs, and even listening to all the self-help, and pickup material out there. So that also tells you that, with a great understanding of stage orange, if I don’t currently see that frame of mind in myself, then I couldn’t possibly be stage orange. Now why would I have trading the markets as my dream job? That doesn’t mean I’m materialistic and only care about success. Sure I want some nice things but it would be mainly so I could move out of my parents place, and get out of a job, so I could have the time to self-actualize and travel. I also actually love understanding how the market moves and understanding the psychology of why people sell/buy here. Trading is highly analytical as well, which is another trait of the stage yellow paradigm, someone who is analytical. Stage yellow is also authentic to themselves and I would say that trading is the closest thing to authentic to me. You don’t deal with people, and its a lot of analytical work. Girzo you may be possibly idealizing what the different stages are like. We don’t have a lot of examples of people in stage yellow like Leo, and there isn’t much said about what kind of career path these different stages go for, but I don’t think you would start questioning the certain stage’s career path up until stage Turquoise. Turquoise seems to have a global way of thinking and helping others, which seems to be what Leo is doing, although he seemed to start Actualized.org from the stage orange paradigm. And that is not what stage yellow is about. Yes it is at a higher level of consciousness and trading the market is considered lower-consciousness, but what career path do you expect stage yellow to have? Doing youtube and helping the global economy? They are more focused on themselves, and their own values. Very similiar to the stage orange paradigm but they have their differences. You also need to take into consideration that being conscious doesn’t mean that you have the action taking factor all figured out. Someone could be stage orange, they have a success, results-oriented mindset, they have big dreams, they want a mansion and a lambo, but hell they could be stuck at Mcdonalds because they don’t understand the entire domain of business or their money psychology is out of place. Being at the higher levels on the graves model doesn’t mean you have it all figured out. Couple more reasons I would say I’m yellow is because I have talked to my old PUA wingman a while ago, criticizing his behaviors, trying to ‘help’ him solve his problem, but he’s too stubborn and doesn’t get the bigger picture. He then later makes a facebook post indirectly attacking me saying something along the lines like, “Oh its funny how people read all these books and never take action.” Stage orange is highly pragmatic and sees yellow as someone who makes things too complex and never pragmatic. Yellow sees orange as someone who doesn’t understand the bigger picture. But really these days I’m more accepting of the way people think because they are the way they are for a reason. To end it off here, another reason I say I’m stage yellow is because I can sort of tell that the next stage for me is stage Turquoise. Which seems to be a more spiritual and  accepting and global way of thinking about the world. I don’t know how to get there, but it will just happen naturally. Thanks for reading.


"Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." - Albert Einstein

 

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You are orange. :) Your thinking is very simliar to mine. Or not, who knows for sure, not me.

You know, I have a friend to whom I have talked about Spiral Dynamics and explained everything to him. He started thinking he is on the stage green when he had stopped judging people, but that's not a sign of changing a stage, it's just a sign of being a healthy individual on the stage orange. Later he had started mistaking logical, analytical thinking for systems thinking and told me he is on the stage yellow. xD After some talking and discussing that higher doesn't necessarily means better, we came to conclusion that it's actually not a case. He actually concluded that green sucks really and reassured himself that he is still mainly orange.

I am not idealizing anything and I don't deny that you have touched the stage yellow, but it might be a case of being like 70% orange, 20% green, 10% yellow. And that's still great, but I wouldn't call myself a yellow in that kind of situation, even though that 10% is probably having a lot of impact on your way of being.

And what career is suitable for a yellow system thinker? There are a lot. Academia research, book writing, environmental activism, entreprenurship, farming, logistics, marketing, consulting, finances etc.

But you know, doing finances work being a woke person you can end up with guilty feeling like some of the characters from the "Big Short" movie (8/10, recommend).

 

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@Girzo If you lived my life for a day you might understand. And again you can’t be too sure where I’m at based on what I’m saying here.

I’ve posted a thread a couple days ago explaining my thoughts on something similiar to what you just mentioned there in the case with your friend. People often times fall into this trap where they tend to ‘copy’ or emulate what they hear in theory and create an identity around it when they actually have not done the work to grow themselves to that level yet. A popular one with men and picking up girls is becoming an alpha male because they believe that being dominant, non-reactive, etc. is attractive to girls. So often times you would get a beta male trying to be dominant and you can tell that he’s faking it, and it just comes off as insecurity. So in the case with your friend, you pretty much mentioned he fell into this same trap, and ‘copied’ the different spiral dynamic levels when he is not actually there yet. In my case yes that is a dangerous trap to fall into, and I need to be aware of that, but that is my own inner demons that I myself need to work on and no point in saying if I am in fact dealing with that trap or not at the moment. I already gave you a good explanation of my thoughts and a bit of my life story in the last post but now it seems like I’m trying to justify to you that I’m stage yellow, which is pointless. You can think what you want about me I don’t care, because I know myself more than anyone else. Although what you mentioned about partially being at certain stages like 10% here, 20% there, is definitely something to think about. One thing I want to add though is that Leo mentions in his video that there is a transitioning phase in between stages, or paradigm shift, and its not always easy to get from one to the next. For me, I don’t remember exactly the last few transitioning phases but from what I experienced last, it has been a really bad depression phase that I had to go through. Everything in my life went wrong but recently broke out of that phase and it created a ton of momentum in my inner and outer world.

And there you go, you mentioned entrepreneurship which is a suitable career choice for stage yellow, and trading is linked to entrepreneurship. Of course I’d probably look into something else more like starting a business once I’ve made enough money trading.

And its not just finances, but being ‘woke’ and doing something that is not authentic to you, would make you feel guilty. It’s a matter of authenticity. The reason why the self-actualized human being wouldn’t do finances is because it doesn’t really align with self-actualization. But people could honestly build a life purpose around finances, same thing with building legos for a living (a story mentioned in Leo’s life purpose course.) I’m already feeling guilty for working a job that doesn’t align with my values, and its always been that I want to get out of this situation. Plus living with family is something I want to change. Cool the self-actualization helps you deal with it in the moment and I don’t ‘have to’ change it, but that’s not what I want. Besides I really don’t give a rat’s turd what the theory says, its not that “oh finances are not what you should be doing because you are woke now.” It’s, you’re free to do whatever you want. Aligning your life with what the theory says is again falling into the neurotic “copy trap” that I mentioned. It’s all about experiencing the theory for yourself.

 

 

Edited by 7thLetter

"Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." - Albert Einstein

 

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Being an introvert shouldn't effect you at all https://biblereasons.com/introvert-vs-extrovert/. I'm an introvert, but that just means I enjoy time alone. I can be quiet but not shy. What does affect me, is my energy. Make sure that you are getting enough sleep. Your energy level does affect how you respond to others. You have to also practice how to relax your mind. I struggled with this, but through practice I've gotten better. Us introverts have to use our skills to our advantage. You have to learn how to engage someone but be a good listener at the same time. This is what helps me. :)

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We attract what we are my friend, until we learn how to transcend ourselves we will be presented with the same people/situations in life. Once we change ourselves for the better or (so to speak) "evolve" from our old way of being, we now attract that of our new state of being.

 


B R E A T H E

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