What is authentic?

[Dino D]

What is authentic?

What is really authentic? an authentic self? an authentic me? is there something like that at all? or is that just a deeper fasade of the ego? the last layer of ego?

Can we really talk about an authentic human? This would then be God? The apsoute? or how?

All in the light of who am I? what is the authentic me? or isnt there an authentic self at all (because the truth is ,,no self")?

In a simple example, a part of me wants that? another part (another ,,I") wants something other, but if I go deeper there is evan a ,,third me" that wants something else, or that evan wants the same thing that wants the ,,first" me? then maybe i can go evan deeper, and find a new me, a new desire, aspect or whatever, is that the authenitc one? and whitch one is it?

Ok, thats the way/aspect of thinking about this,  let me hear you... What is actually authentic?

 

Let me give my view/answer on what is authentic (in the ,,light of human beings"); I have two answers:

1. Authentic is the last layer of the ego, of the personality, it is that what you as a human being really want, going the deepest as it gets, without any rules, refraining, blockages, fear, social rules, being 100% true to your deepest desires and wishes-doing what you really want no matter the  aftermath, something like the original real you... ok, something like that, i hope i managed to express what i mean (my english is bad and self taught).

2. There is no authentic self (or human, or me) and there can not be ,,something" that is authentic or authentically expressed because whaever it is it is not it, it is not the TRUTH, it is an illusion, it is  only a deeper  unrestrained layer of the ego, of the human being or other stuff/concepts that dont really exist, so that they are not truth, and we can not label anything in this world or any human being as authentic... (no self, all is illusion, we are all one, there is only one-nothing, and so on)

againg

What is authentic? and whitch one is it? the authentic me?

[DocHoliday]

When you say that there is no authentic "me" or "self" than that would mean that it's inauthentic (?). Of course when you want to get down to the real, true self no dualistic description will apply - but when we talk about the relative you, that which includes your constructed personality etc., dualities become relevant again (for mere description-purposes of course).

So, yes, when someone goes after what he really wants and desires, without creating self-deception around it and is not performing mind-gymnastics to twist and turn various justifications for one's actions and behaviour, then that's what we'd describe as authentic. Inauthenticity could then be defined as the opposite when we hide our true intentions in order to preserve some kind of image or facade. 

EDIT: Authenticity and inauthenticty always work together. They are tools to manipulate reality and to (obviously) present a certain picture. You can never not present some form of a picture or facade for others to look at and evalaute. It's impossible to be either 100% authentic or inauthentic all the time. Try it out if you don't believe it But, that's how it goes. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by DocHoliday

[mohdanas]

I think, 

Authentic is genuine, the completely pure you and that would be true self which is no self, that is what I would say absolute authentic. 

And, when people say live an authentic life, then they are telling be true to your own self, what do you want, do that. This means chasing your dreams, following your values. That means living a life of not affected by fear or others judgement but on your own terms for your inner desires. That is close to being absolute authentic. 

[DocHoliday]

@mohdanas Wouldn't we actually consider it to be more authentic when we admit that we are afraid or that we feel harmed by the judgement of others? Fearlessness and being unaffected by judgement aren't essentially attached to authenticity, they are character-traits to strive for, or you could also call them "values", whatever... Being authentic means that you simply accept things as they are without hiding them or covering them up. When you feel happy, you admit that you're happy - when you're sad/afraid you admit that you're sad and afraid. The same goes for everything else (likes/dislikes/desires/cravings...)

Edited March 11, 2018 by DocHoliday

[Torkys]

@Dino D Is this a product of contemplation or is this mental masturbation? I am asking because you haven't experienced 100% authenticity, I am sure.

You are 100% authentic when you do not control yourself at all. Authenticity does not add anything, it does not deal with multiple selves because even if you accept fragmentation, multiple selves can't dominate at the same time - authenticity is expressing what is here and now. 

Many people ask: how do I find my authentic self? It can't be found - it just is. 

There is and isn't an authentic self at the same time. Authenticity is the opposite of resistance - it is the source of all spiritual purification. And when the last drop resistance is dropped, you - because your substance is resistance and untruth - die. You could say that you become God.

Authenticity just is. 

(Sorry, I am really passionate about this, authenticity is my number one value ) 

[mohdanas]

30 minutes ago, DocHoliday said:

@mohdanas Wouldn't we actually consider it to be more authentic when we admit that we are afraid or that we feel harmed by the judgement of others? Fearlessness and being unaffected by judgement aren't essentially attached to authenticity, they are character-traits to strive for, or you could also call them "values", whatever... Being authentic means that you simply accept things as they are without hiding them or covering them up. When you feel happy, you admit that you're happy - when you're sad/afraid you admit that you're sad and afraid. The same goes for everything else (likes/dislikes/desires/cravings...)

When, I tell myself not to be afraid, I do not tell myself that I am not afraid, fuck I am afraid but I want to do it. I accept things as they are, yes I am afraid but I do realize I want to do something and I gotta do it too. 

I do resonate with what you mean by your definition of being authentic, and I do agree with it.

The thing is, you are looking for meaning of a word that is abstract. 

And, with concept like these, I guess everyone will have their own understanding and therefore their own definition, which will be very true and authentic to them, so there wouldn't be a unity that this is it, this is what it means. But, guess there will be some core elements, like as you said simply accept things as they are without hinding them or covering them. I am focusing on the "feeling" you will get out of this, I think being authentic is more about "feeling" then defination. What you will feel is a flow inside of yourself, ease, no tension and this is what I would too, so I guess being authentic is the feeling of having that ease and flow of life  

[Dino D]

Hey, I think youre all right and we all more or less basicaly agree on what it means to be authentic... but here is the problem...

I considered that being authentic is good, is great, but maybe its not, lets give examples:

I always craved, desired and loved food- so if I get authentic i will eat till I die  and i will get fat and sick 2. At the same time my big wish is to be leand, healthy and i like to look good, so whats authentic there, to eat or to ,,fast"?

I like porn, thats how it its, i would also like to have sex with a lot of girls and to live like a sultan (there is a part of me that is like that) so lets be authentic and i I would have wife and kids i would have to leave them and chase my authentic perverse desires,  and still if I do, that goes away and i will have new desires, or i would like to go back

one more example sometimes i want to play video games and watch tv, if I wouldnt resist to that i do what i want there is a version of me that lives in front of a pc-is that authentic, is it good to be authentic?

 

and in general, being authenitc, doing what I really want is somehow an opossite in accpeting what is? Imagine a guy who has a wife and two kids and he is the only one who has income for that family, he wonts to leave them and live a hippy life, and he evan doesnt really love them-being authentic means he should go and leave them, option two is to accept what is, to surrender the desires and to find ,the love to love" and to care for his family, being happy with what is... SO, somehow being authenitc would in my personal life mean something that is very opposite to accepting what is... @DocHoliday you have a very good answer btw.

[DocHoliday]

@Dino D Yeah, those are good examples. Now we would get into "Higher" and "Lower" self and how desire works. As you stated it very descriptive you have these various desires in you and don't know what to do - the one desire would always come from your higher self (what is meant by that is the version of yourself with all the higher and more virtuous values and whatnot) and the other from your lower self (this means your egoic drives and your desire to fulfill yourself and to find unity by always acquiring new external acquisitions and "trophies" which obviously won't fulfill you in the end because there will always be something new to desire and crave for).

So, it would be authentic to go either way because you'd express yourself honestly and sincerely, since you're going after what you really want. But, now you have to look at what's really fulfilling to you. Sure, you can give in to your egoic desires from time to time, there's nothing wrong with that but just be aware of the fact that you will never find true satisfaction in them. As long as this is clear to you and you do not search for anything that you think will "complete you" like a missing piece to a puzzle, you're fine to do whatever you want. But sure, there's a cost and a consequence for everything in life. To choose one thing always means leaving out the other. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by DocHoliday

[Dino D]

1 hour ago, Torkys said:

@Dino D Is this a product of contemplation or is this mental masturbation? I am asking because you haven't experienced 100% authenticity, I am sure.

You are 100% authentic when you do not control yourself at all. Authenticity does not add anything, it does not deal with multiple selves because even if you accept fragmentation, multiple selves can't dominate at the same time - authenticity is expressing what is here and now. 

Many people ask: how do I find my authentic self? It can't be found - it just is. 

There is and isn't an authentic self at the same time. Authenticity is the opposite of resistance - it is the source of all spiritual purification. And when the last drop resistance is dropped, you - because your substance is resistance and untruth - die. You could say that you become God.

Authenticity just is. 

(Sorry, I am really passionate about this, authenticity is my number one value ) 

90% of mental mastrubation, 10% of contemplation... My life has come to a crossroad, one leads to an allmost noble life-what seams right to do and what i wanted for many years, but now im close to depression, numbness, depersonalization, and its not what I desire, the other turn leads to something compared to porn or dan blizarian with  maybe dreams about endless love with some girl that is a level angel beuty, and pure perfection... The first road was great-relationship, job ,it was all to my desires and it was authentic, now everything changed, like an other me is in charge and new desires, as soon as I start to chase them, maybe I will evan make it happen and make my dreams true, in the same moment it will againg not be enought and I will dream about new desires, younger girls or what not... I didnt right my actuall personal storry here, but its kind of similar and it the result of my life experience and conclusions, and how things went untill now, thats why the questions, what is authenthic, and sholud we be authentic or what? (i desire something, i get it im happy for 1 sec, and i need something else, or more, and i newer get satisfied or and desire that fullfilles me like 4 ever)

I know exsistence is predeterminated, and there is no chooser, but still, I think how do enlightened people ,,choose" are they authentic to they desires (that would have to be desires of the ego, of the person) or do they exist or chose from they ,,wisdom (enlightened)centar" despite what they desire or want, or what the ego desires? maybe thats the wrong path, a deception of the ego (and if we talk about the deep ego, the deep desire, then this could feel true or right, or authenitic, but maybe exactly this is the ,,wrong path" the ego illusion and deception that is not ,,good for enlightement") I doubt that Jesus or Budha have given they self to what they desire, or what a part of them wanted, like sex, food, some lifestyle or goals or jobs or whatever)... being authentic could be selfish...

A killer can be an authentic killer, a fat person can be an authentic fat guy that eats like crazy and thats it, but how does authenticy look like for an enlightened person, does he fullfill his personal/ego wishes and at the end, what againg is authentic? and is it always ,,right" to be authentic (take the examples killing, eating, leaving kids and so on)

[mohdanas]

2 minutes ago, DocHoliday said:

@Dino D Yeah, those are good examples. Now we would get into "Higher" and "Lower" self and how desire works. As you stated it very descriptive you have these various desires in you and don't know what to do - the one desire would always come from your higher self (what is meant by that is the version of yourself with all the higher and more virtuous values and whatnot) and the other from your lower self (this means your egoic drives and your desire to fulfill yourself and to find unity by always acquiring new external acquisitions and "trophies" which obviously won't fulfill you in the end because there will always be something new to desire and crave for).

So, it would be authentic to go either way because you'd express yourself honestly and sincerely, since you're going after what you really want. But, now you have to look at what's really fulfilling to you. Sure, you can give in to your egoic desires from time to time, there's nothing wrong with that but just be aware of the fact that you will never find true satisfaction in them. As long as this is clear to you and you do not search for anything that you think will "complete you" like a missing piece to a puzzle, you're fine to do whatever you want. But sure, there's a cost and a consequence for everything in life. To choose one thing always means leaving out the other. 

This is pretty much it  

You are confused between choosing value or desires, and the truth is both are part of you. 

You can follow your desires and will feel "guilt" because you are not living on your values. Or, you can follow your values and feel "hollowness" beause your desires are not fullfilled. 

The thing is, you can to work on your desires, and figure out rlly "why" do you want what you want, what does it make you feel like? 

Its funny, how healthy food will make you feel way great than what non healthy food make you feel right now. And you will be like, fuck I do not want to keep eating, its shite. 

You need to learn alot now, do you follow leo videos or read self help? 

[Torkys]

18 minutes ago, Dino D said:

I always craved, desired and loved food- so if I get authentic i will eat till I die  and i will get fat and sick 2. At the same time my big wish is to be leand, healthy and i like to look good, so whats authentic there, to eat or to ,,fast"?

I like porn, thats how it its, i would also like to have sex with a lot of girls and to live like a sultan (there is a part of me that is like that) so lets be authentic and i I would have wife and kids i would have to leave them and chase my authentic perverse desires,  and still if I do, that goes away and i will have new desires, or i would like to go back

3 minutes ago, Dino D said:

A killer can be an authentic killer, a fat person can be an authentic fat guy that eats like crazy and thats it, but how does authenticy look like for an enlightened person, does he fullfill his personal/ego wishes and at the end, what againg is authentic? and is it always ,,right" to be authentic (take the examples killing, eating, leaving kids and so on)

You most likely won't do this. If you release resistance and become more authentic, you will become more conscious sooner or later. It works backwards as well. Consciousness kills resistance and low-consciousness behavior.

18 minutes ago, Dino D said:

doing what I really want is somehow an opossite in accpeting what is?

You create a duality here which doesn't need to be there. You need to accept the desire.

4 minutes ago, Dino D said:

how do enlightened people ,,choose" are they authentic to they desires (that would have to be desires of the ego, of the person) or do they exist or chose from they ,,wisdom (enlightened)centar" despite what they desire or want, or what the ego desires?

As Teal Swan puts it, there is craving and there is desire. Desire allows if the thing does not come true, craving does not. Enlightened people do not have cravings and most likely living with 100% authenticity and here is no such thing as choice (this is the degree of authenticity I was talking about). Even if they have dreams, those are purified desires, not cravings.

[DocHoliday]

6 minutes ago, mohdanas said:

This is pretty much it  

You are confused between choosing value or desires, and the truth is both are part of you. 

You can follow your desires and will feel "guilt" because you are not living on your values. Or, you can follow your values and feel "hollowness" beause your desires are not fullfilled. 

The thing is, you can to work on your desires, and figure out rlly "why" do you want what you want, what does it make you feel like? 

Its funny, how healthy food will make you feel way great than what non healthy food make you feel right now. And you will be like, fuck I do not want to keep eating, its shite. 

You need to learn alot now, do you follow leo videos or read self help? 

Yes, the question of "Why?" is really important. You need to get your motivations and the source of your desires straight. That's what is commonly referred to as Shadow Work - you're diving in to your subconscious to find out just why you do say or do certain things among other things. Can be difficult but it's worth it - saves you money and a lot of wasted time down the line. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by DocHoliday

[Dino D]

3 minutes ago, mohdanas said:

This is pretty much it  

You are confused between choosing value or desires, and the truth is both are part of you. 

You can follow your desires and will feel "guilt" because you are not living on your values. Or, you can follow your values and feel "hollowness" beause your desires are not fullfilled. 

The thing is, you can to work on your desires, and figure out rlly "why" do you want what you want, what does it make you feel like? 

Its funny, how healthy food will make you feel way great than what non healthy food make you feel right now. And you will be like, fuck I do not want to keep eating, its shite. 

You need to learn alot now, do you follow leo videos or read self help? 

As first thank you... you helped a lot...

I love leo, he is briliant, i watch his videos, I read a lot, but some basic stuff gets forgotoen and blury from all the reality cracks that I experience and from all the relativity about everything, we can relativize everything (especcialy if nothing is the truth) and also rationalize everything, so its sometimes easy to get lost or to seam like a big newbie  the higher and lowers self ,,concept" helps a lot  and everything else, thx a lot

[mohdanas]

https://www.simplypsychology.org/psyche.html

Check this to understand ego, superego and id and there relationship. 

Another thing, I notice is you really aim for perfectionism, dont you? 

Either you want to be a badass noble, or a total badass dan bilzaerian. Sometimes, you are like I should be like bhudda and sometimes that bald guy in the porn industry lol ( just metaphor ) 

Why chase two end extreme? either all the way to north or all the way to south? 

Be realistic, understand yourself and figure out "why" then "what" 

About Me : 

I like enlightenment, but I have values about protecting and providing for my family. This life might be illusion but I say fuck it, if this is video game in which I have someone called "mom" with what she has done, imma make it good for her and also care about what she want than just myself. 

So, I am designing my life in such a way that can fit both the framework. I want to work hard materialistically right now, build income streams and then later, be more serious about awakening. 

 

 

[Neo]

@mohdanasGood for you. I'm having a baby! It's taken 12 years to do. I read about I need to die and leave everything behind etc etc, but I also know that the Universe loves creation - all of it!

[mohdanas]

1 minute ago, Dino D said:

As first thank you... you helped a lot...

I love leo, he is briliant, i watch his videos, I read a lot, but some basic stuff gets forgotoen and blury from all the reality cracks that I experience and from all the relativity about everything, we can relativize everything (especcialy if nothing is the truth) and also rationalize everything, so its sometimes easy to get lost or to seam like a big newbie  the higher and lowers self ,,concept" helps a lot  and everything else, thx a lot

hahaha It happens, I just said it to help you. Hope you figure yourself out. 

Man, it took me 2 years to get some clarity, I was living in utter, hopeless confusion. 

 

 

[mohdanas]

4 minutes ago, Neo said:

@mohdanasGood for you. I'm having a baby! It's taken 12 years to do. I read about I need to die and leave everything behind etc etc, but I also know that the Universe loves creation - all of it!

 

I feel you bro, I feel you