Psychedelics - are they "authentic"?

[Neo]

Psychedelics - are they "authentic"?

 

You join a club of "happy" people, you all meet up and all stand one one by one to say how happy you are and why. When it's your turn, you stand up and say, "I'm happy - I take Valium! In fact, I took a Valium and a bunch of other drugs just before I got here! I expect I'll be really miserable later!"

So, is it "authentic" and more importantly, are the "benefits" authentic. Can you reach the same end point as meditation AND not affect the possibility of making further progress with meditation alone.

Is it like taking soooo much VIAGRA, for years, and you're expected to perform for your Mrs, and you haven't got any VIAGRA and it's freezing cold, and there's a lot on your're mind, in fact, you have a headache and you're tired.

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Neo

[Dodo]

11 minutes ago, Neo said:

Psychedelics - are they "authentic"?

 

You join a club of "happy" people, you all meet up and all stand one one by one to say how happy you are and why. When it's your turn, you stand up and say, "I'm happy - I take Valium! In fact, I took a Valium and a bunch of other drugs just before I got here! I expect I'll be really miserable later!"

So, is it "authentic" and more importantly, are the "benefits" authentic. Can you reach the same end point as meditation AND not affect the possibility of making further progress with meditation alone.

Is it like taking soooo much VIAGRA, for years, and you're expected to perform for your Mrs, and you haven't got any VIAGRA and it's freezing cold, and there's a lot on your're mind, in fact, you have a headache and you're tired.

 

 

 

Drugs, for me weed, can get you in heaven, but you guessed it - it's not authentic. Authentic means that you're in heaven in your natural state. Otherwise you are always dependent on a substance to get there and that's not something you actually want. You want to find that which is always there which can take you to heaven, because if it's not always there, the absence of it will make you unhappy (obviously). 

I can definitely smoke some weed and get into Heaven right now, but I find that not doing weed is actually making the waters more still and I can actually see God, because I'm not chasing God. 

[Neo]

Thank you but I would really like to focus on, can you use psychedelics to lead the way, and then not use them, or are you more likely to always either "rely on", or associate these states with Psychedelics?

Edited February 16, 2018 by Neo

[Ocean]

It’s a drug. So it is not your everyday experience, so to speak. Best to work with what you got.

Article quote:

"Our aim was to identify the precise areas inside the brain where the drug is active. We thought when we started that psilocybin would activate different parts of the brain. But we haven't found any activation anywhere. All we have found are reductions in blood flow" 

A fall in blood flow suggests that brain activity has reduced. The areas affected were those parts of the brain that tell us who we are, where we are and what we are. When these areas were dampened down, I was no longer locked into my everyday constraints...”

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12122409

 

This is all at a relative level though, which is part of the absolute.

Again, work with what/where/how you are,...unless doing it for the experience which you know will pass and maybe leave you wanting more of something that can never be real.

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Ocean

[tsuki]

21 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Authentic means that you're in heaven in your natural state. Otherwise you are always dependent on a substance to get there and that's not something you actually want. You want to find that which is always there which can take you to heaven, because if it's not always there, the absence of it will make you unhappy (obviously). 

That is a faulty reasoning. There are no methods that dependably guide to heaven. Meditation can, and will, be hell itself at some point.

Edited February 16, 2018 by tsuki

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, tsuki said:

That is a faulty reasoning. There are no methods that dependably guide to heaven.

How do you know?

[tsuki]

Just now, Dodo said:

How do you know?

I don't. That's the point

Edited February 16, 2018 by tsuki

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, tsuki said:

I don't. That's the point

Well if you don't know, why do you appear so certain that there is no such guide? That's exactly what spirituality is created for! That's why we're here.

[tsuki]

1 minute ago, Dodo said:

Well if you don't know, why do you appear so certain that there is no such guide?

This is what we humans do, construct models and mistake them for what they are.
This is what I did, what you did, and what @Neo is trying to do.

2 minutes ago, Dodo said:

That's exactly what spirituality is created for! That's why we're here.

Spirituality is a riddle you have to solve to get to the next level and realize that you didn't go anywhere,

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, tsuki said:

This is what we humans do, construct models and mistake them for what they are.
This is what I did, what you did, and what @Neo is trying to do.

Spirituality is a riddle you have to solve to get to the next level and realize that you didn't go anywhere,

And it's the heaven beyond heaven and hell

Edited February 16, 2018 by Dodo

[tsuki]

Just now, Dodo said:

And it's heaven

And hell. Depends on which models you confused for what.

[Dodo]

Just now, tsuki said:

And hell. Depends on which models you confused for what.

I edited my post few seconds after I posted it sry I didn't mean the heaven of duality.

[Joseph Maynor]

Psychedelics can help you spot ignorance if you use them wisely, with some preliminary understanding of how to use them for personal development purposes.  

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Neo]

Psychedelics can help you spot ignorance if you use them wisely, with some preliminary understanding of how to use them for personal development purposes.

Could they be a trap?

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Neo said:

 

 

Could they be a trap?

For me at this place in my growth I can answer yes.  This is because what I'm trying to do is right now is focus more on just resting as awareness.  So, I don't really care about anything other than this.  I guess it depends on what a particular person on the path needs to get to a place where they can fully accept reality.  So, there's no real objective answer to whether they are a trap.  They are a tool.  No tool is bad in itself.  What is good or bad is the utility of that tool in a particular context where there is a particular problem.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

For me at this place in my growth I can answer yes.  This is because what I'm trying to do is right now is focus more on just resting as awareness.  So, I don't really care about anything other than this.  I guess it depends on what a particular person on the path needs to get to a place where they can accept reality.  So, there's no real objective answer.

Love this +1

[PsiloPutty]

For me, they (ayahuasca and psilocybin) opened the curtain just enough to give me a astonishing peek at what reality is. If I never did another psychedelic again, I'd still have the memory of what I saw, felt and gained to motivate me to become a better iteration of myself. That said, I do find it beneficial to rinse and repeat every so often, as the insight can fade over time, just like any other experience or memory we have. They're a tool for me.

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, PsiloPutty said:

For me, they (ayahuasca and psilocybin) opened the curtain just enough to give me a astonishing peek at what reality is. If I never did another psychedelic again, I'd still have the memory of what I saw, felt and gained to motivate me to become a better iteration of myself. That said, I do find it beneficial to rinse and repeat every so often, as the insight can fade over time, just like any other experience or memory we have. They're a tool for me.

Exactly.  I think everyone should get that look behind the curtain in this work.

[Neo]

Well, I will post back my thoughts in a few weeks. The shrooms are growing in the closet but wont be ready for a while. I'm still horrified that anyone would buy white powder off a stranger on the internet an ingest it but that's another story. It's really that it's only this forum that has brought me to this point and I am still unsure if it is wise.

[PsiloPutty]

55 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Exactly.  I think everyone should get that look behind the curtain in this work.

I don't recall who I got the metaphor from, but for me, the psychedelic experience was like in The Wizard of Oz when the curtain was suddenly pulled open, revealing a weak and ridiculous little man who'd had everyone hoodwinked into believing in this frightening, larger-than-life persona, providing them all with The Truth of life. They then realized that it was all a sham, and they'd been buying a lie the entire time.

Society, culture, governments and their laws are the sad little wizard, scamming us out of our individuality and our ability to think critically. For me, psychedelics opened the curtain and showed me how tragically shameful it is to go through life believing that they're telling us the truth in how we should live. I learned that the people making the rules were/are just as lost in their lives as I was in mine, and that took their power away.