Psychedelics - are they "authentic"?

[PsiloPutty]

6 hours ago, Neo said:

PsiloPutty, if you have any resources or can tell me about your first shroom planning I would be very interested to find out. I have no idea what the first dose should be for meditative work, I'm not planning on near death experience! Also, I expect I can goo-gle it, but what to do with a clutch of shrooms, can they be frozen, and no, I don't know a single sole on this planet who needs shrooms! lol

I'll copy and paste something I posted here last week, as a bunch of it is applicable to you, too. Do not freeze them; the ice crystals will ruin the cell structure and turn them to slime. Get yourself a cheapie food dehydrator at Walmart and dry the whole mushrooms until they are as dry as a cracker. You want them dry enough that they break very easily, without any bending needed. Cracker dry. They're then ready to use or store. To store, just get an air-tight Mason jar (more than one jar, if you have a big crop), put a dessicant pack in it and store it in a cool, dark place for up to a year or two. As far as dose, here comes the pasted post from last week. Take what you can use from it.......

Yeah, if 2g didn't do much, I'd just say the heck with it and go with the famed "Heroic Dose" which is 5g dried, but if 4g sounds less frightening, then do that. Whatever method you use, do it after fasting for 6 hours. Food in your stomach will delay the effects and increase your chance of feeling nauseated or throwing up.

Some folks love doing mushroom tea, but it never works as well for me as actually consuming the mushrooms. I got fed up with the tea method after raising the dose again and again and still not getting the effect of eating them, so I'm done with that intake method, but there's not much to it: heat up 1 or 2 cups of water (however much you'd like to drink), put the hot water in a coffee mug, finely grind up your bone-dry mushrooms in a coffee grinder until it's like baby powder, empty out a couple regular tea bags and then add the mushroom powder to the empty bags and let them steep in your mug of hot water for 20 minutes, squeezing the bags from time to time to ensure that the actives in the mushrooms are getting into the water.....and drink it. That's straight mushroom tea. 

The method I've found to work better than any other is to grind up the mushrooms as described before, put them in an empty coffee mug, add 2 ounces of real lemon juice, stir it up a few times while 20 minutes passes.....and drink it all down at the 20-minute mark. This is called the Lemon Tek method. It's nasty-lookin' shit, with a taste to match, and you might have to do it little by little to keep from gagging, which is why I keep the volume of what I need to drink to a minimum. The lemon juice activates or potentiates the psilocybin, making the trip start faster than other consumption methods. It's thought that the citric acid in lemon juice converts the psilocybin into psilocin, a process which would happen in your body anyway, even without the lemon juice, but since the lemon juice does it while the mushrooms are in the mug, your body doesn't need to bother with it, thus making the effects appear faster. 

I always do my psychedelic journeys alone at home. If you have a very trusted friend who's willing to sit in a different room and only tend to you if you call out for them, that's OK too. You definitely want some privacy, though. I talk outloud, chant, sing and all sorts of shit that would be disturbing to a sober person in the house, especially if they're unfamiliar with seeing someone on a therapeutic dose of psilocybin. Having a newbie tripsitter is NOT advised. It would be a new experience for you both, and you want at least one of you to have an idea of what's going on. 

"What to do" during a trip: I like to meditate in the dark after I drink my mushrooms, and I keep doing that even while I can feel the trip starting. Don't worry about not getting deep enough into meditation; if you're like me, you'll be too jazzed up to get as deep as during a regular meditation session. The point is just to calm your mind in preparation for the experience. When it becomes difficult to continue meditating after the trip starts, because of what I'm seeing (eyes always closed), hearing and feeling, I talk to the mushroom, expressing my gratitude, asking for its help, its guidance and frankly, its mercy. Might be kooky to do that, but I'm not at all convinced that mushrooms aren't a doorway into another dimension, accompanied by some kind of alien intellect. 

It's not necessary to believe what I believe as far as the alien intelligence goes, but you DO have to surrender yourself to it and acknowledge that you're in the direct presence of something that has it in its power to beat you up mentally if you're too cocky about it and try to exert control over it. That's what I like about the higher doses - they automatically put you in the passenger seat. At low doses, your ego is very much intact and it is petrified to relinquish control. Low doses can be a lot more challenging than higher doses for that very reason; your ego can fight and kick around and cause something of a rotten trip. Your ego is ushered into a waiting room in some ways during a 5g+ trip, and you are more apt to just lay there and surrender, which is when the mushroom can stretch out and do the driving. 

That's not to say that you for sure won't have challenging periods on a therapeutic dose; you sure may, but it's all a part of it. It's Yin and Yang. When I have a rough time, I fall back on Terence McKenna's advice of sitting up in bed and chanting or singing. It oxygenates your brain and can really free up a mental log jam. The last trip I had, I got stuck early on, started chanting and even after I felt better, I kept up with the chanting for 2 full hours because it felt so good and needed for some reason. I didn't know from one moment to the next what sounds were going to come out of my mouth. It was as liberating and cathartic as anything I've done in my almost 50 years on earth. 

Anyway, your fear is normal and GOOD. It signifies that you're serious about it and that you understand that you'll have to drop the reins and surrender to something very different than you've ever experienced. Again, you will still be you afterward. Even while it's happening, you'll still have the ability to go to the restroom, drink water and such, although you should stay in bed as much as possible. If you're like most people, the trip comes in waves. There will be times when the surf's up and all you can do is stay put and absorb what it's showing you, but there will also be low-tide times when you can go pee, drink some water or whatever for a couple minutes before the tide returns. I usually have 3 solid hours of heavy tripping before it begins to leave, but don't plan on leaving the house or doing anything too normal for 6 hours.

If you can summon the courage to do this, it'll likely rank among the most important and profound activities you have ever engaged in. The potential for personal growth in such a short timeframe is completely unparalleled. All it takes is true courage, curiosity and an explorer's sense of adventure. 

[Forestluv]

Imagine a schizophrenic who was made sane with medication. Who is the "authentic self"?

Crowded rock concerts are a stimulus that alter my brain chemistry causing panic and paranoia. Is this my "authentic self"?

Ingesting molecules within fruits and vegetables affects my brain chemistry and generally promotes a sense of wellbeing. Is this my "authentic self"?

Ingesting molecules within deep fried foods can alter the microbiota composition in my gut. This alters gene expression in the brain which affects my emotions. Is this my "authentic self"?

A traumatic event causes epigenetic changes leading to long-term alterations of gene expression throughout the genome and is associated with elevated levels of cortisol and chronic stress. Is this the "authentic self"?. . . Ahhh, yet the combination of psychological and medicated therapy (including psilocybin) has been shown to reverse those effects - Is this now the "authentic authentic self"?

What is natural? How would you define it?

We are continuous with our environment. We are not separate.

[Neo]

Yes, but I didn't actually say or mean "authentic self". Authentic as in authentic in spiritual or growth / experience. Not fake or bogus in it's effect, or worse still, damaging, not making easy for later meditative progress, it hints on this in the link I posted above which gives various different perspectives, it does seem possibly if done improperly.

 

PsiloPutty, I've read that twice, it's mind blowing if a little scary.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Neo

[pluto]

I recently gained some information i had forgotten about. Drugs including Psychedelics/Hallucinogens especially when abused after "You get the message" affect the psyche of the individual and can reverse individuals process of spiritual evolution. It has to do with the Astral Body. Let me explain

The Astral body (spirit - electrons) can only be harmed by two things: Drugs and Vibrations by certain kinds of noise. (Heavy Traffic/Industrials) being one of the worst. (I will make a whole topic on Astral body, Higher-Self and Noise.)

It must be understood that they have an influence that is totally against Nature. They remove the Astral body to another sphere where it should not be. The Astral body should be either in a physical body or with its Higher-self, of which it is a part.

When drugged, an individual’s Astral body is as though asleep experiencing artificial sensations that completely distort his or her judgement. It is in the same situation as a physical body is during an important surgical operation. If you like, it’s like a tool that we bend or break by using it incorrectly or for a task for which it was not intended.

According to the length of time that a person is under the influence of drugs, his or her Astral body is going to decline or, more exactly, it is going to become saturated with false data. Recovery for the Astral body can take several lifetimes with heavy abuse.

Another way of example is that drugs prematurely vibrate the astral body out of its physical body without naturally developing an alignment of the individual which can cause all sorts of disruptions and distortions. If the ability is not mastered endogenously it can create great confusion in the psyche.

Now it is unknown the effects of each and how much damage although i can state myself i clearly see now how much drugs even when used far less then the typical "abuse" rate have effected my spiritual awareness only now that i have taken a break from indulging in the socially expected life even among actualized people/groups as i am mostly fasting on water, raw fruit juice and spending time in nature, meditating ect.. i am starting to clear up again and remember what i had forgotten and seeing how almost everything we do today has potential to blind and trap you in loops if you are not careful although even when you think you are careful you can easily slip and trick yourself if you are taking drugs or partaking in mindless loops regardless of meditation or self work.

If you meditate effectively without any of these distractions you wont ever need to as your vibration will be naturally just as high. Experiencing them once or twice is no harm but anymore you are only fooling yourself into further blindness from absolute truth and universal clarity especially when you already "know" better.

2c

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by pluto

[Forestluv]

55 minutes ago, Neo said:

Yes, but I didn't actually say or mean "authentic self". Authentic as in authentic in spiritual or growth / experience. Not fake or bogus in it's effect, or worse still, damaging, not making easy for later meditative progress, it hints on this in the link I posted above which gives various different perspectives, it does seem possibly if done improperly.

 

PsiloPutty, I've read that twice, it's mind blowing if a little scary.

It makes no difference. The post is the same. Just remove "self".

How can an experience be "fake" in it's effect?

The concepts of "authentic spiritual growth" and "meditative progress" is part of the dream within The Game. Just like concepts of income growth and career progress. It is seeking something within a dream reality. Going to a meditation retreat is going to a meditation retreat. Just like going bowling is going bowling. All the meanings and comparisons are within The Game of a dream reality.

Your dream is determined by your terms "authentic", "fake", "bogus", "damaging", "easy" and "improperly".  It's all a story you tell yourself and that you are attached to. I've been strongly attached to stories and know how strong they are. Psychedelics destroys stories.

Psychedelics can give a person a very different perspective of The Game. It is like living your whole life in a city and one day going to a mountain top and looking down on the city. Psychedelics are the most powerful perspective tool to me. I learned more during my first trip than in 20 years of meditation.

And everything I've written is part of my conceptual dream. We are both right and both wrong.

[Joseph Maynor]

Make sure to give yourself some space in between psychedelics.  It's not good to do them all the time.  You want to have bursts of doing psychedelics rather than making it a consistent habit.  Psychedelics are like cleaning yourself out.  You don't want to do that too much or you're gonna screw yourself up with it.  That's the best way to look at psychedelics.  

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Make sure to give yourself some space in between psychedelics.  It's not good to do them all the time.  You want to have bursts of doing psychedelics rather than making it a consistent habit.  Psychedelics are like cleaning yourself out.  You don't want to do that too much or you're gonna screw yourself up with it.  That's the best way to look at psychedelics.  

Doing bursts of psychedelics caused me distress. I've done better using psychedelics as a consistent habit every two weeks.

For me, psychedelics are not like cleaning myself out. It is like dissolving the story that defines my self.

There are an infinite number of ways to look at psychedelics. "Best" is a relative term.

[Neo]

Thank you for all the comments - very interesting. Serotoninluv, I can assure you I haven't "projected"  anything at all as all I have done is ask a question in a very open, even "feminine" way, and so there is nothing to project. The link which I asked people to comment on, I paste the part I was referring to here:

"Herein lies a sticky situation when applying psychedelics as tools for spiritual development: repeatedly using them for the ‘cerebral big-bang’ effect, can cultivate the ‘perception’ of development while only re-enforcing the need to continue taking psychedelics in order to maintain that (potentially) false perception.

Thus, simply taking psychedelics and having the big trip does not create spiritual maturity in a person (though it may lead one into believing that such maturity has been gained). Spiritual maturity requires a regular process or practice of some type to bring the essence of wisdom that a psychedelic experience offers into one’s life as a whole.

If spiritual maturity is what one is seeking in psychedelic experiences, successful integration is key. This means taking time before hand and afterwards to allow the perspectives obtained within such an experience to sink in. This means that before telling everyone about what happened in the experience or taking more psychedelics, one allows what was unlocked within the psychedelic experience to be held in one’s mind until the time that it becomes a natural expression of one’s self. For some this may be a few days, for others it might be an entire lifetime.

It is possible to help the process of applying the insights of a psychedelic experience into one’s life as a whole. The most important factor in helping this along, as far as I have found, is cultivating a daily ‘spiritual’ practice of personal value.

“Spiritual practice” means anything that brings awareness into a sense of being connected with a deeper, more mindful expression of one’s self. “As a whole” means the insights obtained in a psychedelic experience are applied to help cultivate mental-emotional wellbeing, physical health, socio-economic stability, self-awareness, compassion, empathy, creativity, clarity, honesty, etc., in whatever way expresses the individual’s honest (as in unpostured or unguarded) self.

At this point, it seems pretty clear to me that unless the grand experiences of psychedelics are applied into life in a way that unlocks one’s ability to perceive the beauty and fullness of the ordinary, day-to-day moments (outside of the trip), their benefit as a tool for spiritual maturity is being wasted. Thus, coming back to the discussion of repeatedly getting on and off the stone, the effort to keep going back, over and over again, with the hopes getting the next big mystical experience, as if it will tell you something new, when the previous one hasn’t even been integrated, is escapism at best. And at worst, an unconscious ego pattern to self-justify illusions of spiritual maturity and grandeur."

[Forestluv]

@Neo There are countless terms. "Spiritual Maturity" is also part of The Game. Just like "Mature Love", "Career Maturity", "Emotional Maturity", "Spiritual Maturity" and on and on. . . It's all part of a conceptual reality with meaning, definitions and rules. 

"At this point, it seems pretty clear to me that unless the grand experiences of psychedelics are applied into life in a way that unlocks one’s ability to perceive the beauty and fullness of the ordinary, day-to-day moments (outside of the trip), their benefit as a tool for spiritual maturity is being wasted."

That is a story the author tells himself and others. It is one perspective of an infinite number of perspectives.  It is part of "The Game".  His terms "grand", "beauty", "fullness", "ordinary". "benefit" and "wasted". A moonlit walk along the beach is not beautiful, serene, peaceful, etc. It just IS. Just like a duck taking a crap just IS. Just like a blogger writing about "Spiritual Maturity" just IS. Interpretations of value are added and there are an infinite number of interpretations. 

And what I wrote just IS another story. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Psychedelics are a Mindfuck that get you questioning everything in your life is what they are.  But Enlightenment is not a psychedelic state.  Awareness is there in all Psychedelic experiences, notice that.  Awareness never changes, although the fluxing Dream is always changing.  Enlightenment has to do with Awareness and the relationship between Awareness and the fluxing Dream.  Seeing the mechanics of the Dream has it's place, but don't identify with it.  You can't control anything anyway, so just don't attach to it.  Awareness can see that it's not the Dream and detach from it.  When this happens, the Ego dies.  Well, technically it was never alive -- so the illusion of the Ego dies -- which just brings us right back around to reality as it's always been.  What's gonna change is how you as unchanging Awareness attach to the Dream.  That's Enlightenment.  That kind of Awareness; that highest-quality kind of Awareness.  Paying attention to what the fu*k is actually happening, not what the Mind wants to believe is happening.  High-quality Awareness.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Joseph Maynor