Echoes

Deities, Avatars And Lord Beings

8 posts in this topic

Can someone explain those to me? What are all those deities like Ganesha, Vishnu, Lakshmi, Kali, etc. 

For example, in Hindu texts divine incarnations of Shiva are explained. Shiva and Shakti represent the dance of emptiness and form. Shiva being emptiness and Shakti being form. I understand the usage of them as sort of metaphysical or energetic represantations. Yet, there are pointers at divine incarnations of "Lord Shiva" as a human avatar. But isn't every human a incarnation of shiva then? 

It can't just be religuous delusion and fantasy...And it also can't just be metaphors for certain human characteristics.  Never understood those hundreds of hindu gods. 

veda-vyas-and-ganesha.jpg

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@Echoes the baghavad gita talks about it. some people need mental images for the practice of bhakti yoga. the baghavad gita teaches krishna devotees to think of a blue human being that plays flute, even though krishna is the absolute infinity itself.

the reason for this practice is a good subject for contemplation. you're going in the right direction.

krishna_sm.jpg

Edited by ajasatya

unborn Truth

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12 minutes ago, Echoes said:

Can someone explain those to me?

As there are seven bodies, so there are also seven chakras, energy centers, and each chakra is connected in a special way with its corresponding body.

One who attains the fifth or the sixth body before death is reborn in the highest celestial realm, and there he lives on the plane of the devas. He can stay in this realm as long as he likes, but to attain nirvana he has to come back to the human form. After attaining the fifth there is no birth in the physical body, but there are other bodies. In fact, what we call devas or gods signifies the kind of body that is obtained. This type of body is obtained after reaching the fifth body. After the sixth body, even these will not be there. Then we shall obtain the form of what we call ishwar, the supreme being.

  Osho ~ In Search of the Miraculous Volume 2  

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@Echoes

The process of the creation of the universe, according to those who study it in depth, is threefold.

Investigation into the structure of matter, as done by science in recent times, also says that the atom has three components: it can be divided into electron, positron and neutron. Those who were endowed with deep insight in the world of religion discovered long ago that the process of creation can be divided into three parts: Brahma, the creator; Vishnu, the sustainer; Mahesh, the destroyer.

There is birth at the beginning, there is death at the end, and in between them lies the small span of life. That which begins must come to its end, and between the two poles there is a brief stretch of the journey which we call life.

Vishnu is in the middle of the two, between Brahma and Mahesh or Shiva. Vishnu sustains life. He is the middle part of the process. Brahma is needed once, at the moment of creation, at birth. So also, Shiva is needed once, at the moment of destruction, at death. Vishnu comprises the span of life between birth and death. So between birth and death there is life. Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh are not the names of persons, they are names of energies, forces.

As I said, in the course of the creation of the universe Brahma and Shiva are needed very briefly, but Vishnu, who sustains life, who is life-energy, or elan vital in the words of Bergson, has a large role to play. That is why every avatara or incarnation in this country is the incarnation of Vishnu. It has to be so. You too are an incarnation of Vishnu. Vishnu alone can incarnate because he is life.

But it is wrong to think that the person known as Rama is the same as Krishna. No, the energy, the elan vital that manifested itself in Rama is also manifesting in Krishna, and it is the same energy manifesting itself in you. And don't be under the illusion that what manifested itself in Rama is not manifested in Ravana, his opponent. It is really the same energy gone astray. Ravana is Vishnu deviated. There is no other difference between the two. In the case of Ravana the same energy has gone off track.

All of life is Vishnu. All of incarnation is Vishnu's.

It is erroneous to think of Vishnu as a person. Rama is a person; Vishnu is not. Krishna is a person; Vishnu is not. Vishnu is the name of energy, power. But there is a reason for the mistake of taking him to be a person. Every insight in the past was expressed in poetry, and poetry even turns energy into a person. Out of necessity it had to do so; we could not have expressed it otherwise. But then this way of expression resulted in creating any number of riddles in mythology.

I have heard... A man is Lying on his deathbed. He is a Christian and the priest has come for the last rites. As is the custom, the priest asked the dying man, "Do you believe in God the father?" The man kept quiet. The priest again asked, "Do you believe in God the son?" The dying man remained silent. Lastly the priest asked, "Do you believe in God the holy ghost?"

The dying man turned to his own people around him and said, "Look, here I am dying and this man is giving me puzzles to solve." Evidently they were like puzzles for the dying man.

Let alone for the dying, even for the living, life is the greatest of riddles. What is it we call our life?

How does it come into being? How does it go on? How does it come to an end? What is that energy which makes it move, grow, ultimately shrink and disappear? In its own way, science calls it electron, positron and neutron, which make up a trinity like the religious trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. And it is interesting to note that the meaning of both the trinities - one of science and the other of religion - is approximately the same. The positron is a positive energy which we can equate with Brahma. The neutron is negative electricity and can sit well with Shiva the destroyer.

And in between the positron and the neutron is the electron, which may be called Vishnu. There seems to be just a linguistic difference. One thing is said in the language of science and the other in the language of religion.

The whole of life is Vishnu incarnated. When a flower blooms it is Vishnu blooming, when a river flows it is Vishnu flowing, when a tree grows it is Vishnu growing. And it is again Vishnu who takes birth, grows and lives as man or woman. And the moment of death, of annihilation, belongs to Shiva.

At the moment of death Shiva takes over from Vishnu. He is the lord of destruction. And therefore mythology has it that no one will agree to marry his daughter to Shiva. How can one offer one's offspring to death? How can one give to Shiva a woman who is basically a source of creation?

The incarnation of Vishnu does not mean that some person named Vishnu incarnated in Rama, then in Krishna and yet again in someone else. It is the energy known as Vishnu that descends in Rama, Krishna and everybody else. It has ever been descending and it will continue to descend forever. And the energy known as Shiva or Shankar is that which terminates life. If you understand it in this perspective, everything will be clear to you. Then it is not a riddle, not a puzzle at all.

  Osho~ Krishna The Man and his Philosophy 

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@Echoes You can materialize God in whatever Avatar you want, with enough determination. Of course they are all you.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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2 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

@Echoes

The process of the creation of the universe, according to those who study it in depth, is threefold.

Investigation into the structure of matter, as done by science in recent times, also says that the atom has three components: it can be divided into electron, positron and neutron. Those who were endowed with deep insight in the world of religion discovered long ago that the process of creation can be divided into three parts: Brahma, the creator; Vishnu, the sustainer; Mahesh, the destroyer.

There is birth at the beginning, there is death at the end, and in between them lies the small span of life. That which begins must come to its end, and between the two poles there is a brief stretch of the journey which we call life.

Vishnu is in the middle of the two, between Brahma and Mahesh or Shiva. Vishnu sustains life. He is the middle part of the process. Brahma is needed once, at the moment of creation, at birth. So also, Shiva is needed once, at the moment of destruction, at death. Vishnu comprises the span of life between birth and death. So between birth and death there is life. Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh are not the names of persons, they are names of energies, forces.

As I said, in the course of the creation of the universe Brahma and Shiva are needed very briefly, but Vishnu, who sustains life, who is life-energy, or elan vital in the words of Bergson, has a large role to play. That is why every avatara or incarnation in this country is the incarnation of Vishnu. It has to be so. You too are an incarnation of Vishnu. Vishnu alone can incarnate because he is life.

But it is wrong to think that the person known as Rama is the same as Krishna. No, the energy, the elan vital that manifested itself in Rama is also manifesting in Krishna, and it is the same energy manifesting itself in you. And don't be under the illusion that what manifested itself in Rama is not manifested in Ravana, his opponent. It is really the same energy gone astray. Ravana is Vishnu deviated. There is no other difference between the two. In the case of Ravana the same energy has gone off track.

All of life is Vishnu. All of incarnation is Vishnu's.

It is erroneous to think of Vishnu as a person. Rama is a person; Vishnu is not. Krishna is a person; Vishnu is not. Vishnu is the name of energy, power. But there is a reason for the mistake of taking him to be a person. Every insight in the past was expressed in poetry, and poetry even turns energy into a person. Out of necessity it had to do so; we could not have expressed it otherwise. But then this way of expression resulted in creating any number of riddles in mythology.

I have heard... A man is Lying on his deathbed. He is a Christian and the priest has come for the last rites. As is the custom, the priest asked the dying man, "Do you believe in God the father?" The man kept quiet. The priest again asked, "Do you believe in God the son?" The dying man remained silent. Lastly the priest asked, "Do you believe in God the holy ghost?"

The dying man turned to his own people around him and said, "Look, here I am dying and this man is giving me puzzles to solve." Evidently they were like puzzles for the dying man.

Let alone for the dying, even for the living, life is the greatest of riddles. What is it we call our life?

How does it come into being? How does it go on? How does it come to an end? What is that energy which makes it move, grow, ultimately shrink and disappear? In its own way, science calls it electron, positron and neutron, which make up a trinity like the religious trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. And it is interesting to note that the meaning of both the trinities - one of science and the other of religion - is approximately the same. The positron is a positive energy which we can equate with Brahma. The neutron is negative electricity and can sit well with Shiva the destroyer.

And in between the positron and the neutron is the electron, which may be called Vishnu. There seems to be just a linguistic difference. One thing is said in the language of science and the other in the language of religion.

The whole of life is Vishnu incarnated. When a flower blooms it is Vishnu blooming, when a river flows it is Vishnu flowing, when a tree grows it is Vishnu growing. And it is again Vishnu who takes birth, grows and lives as man or woman. And the moment of death, of annihilation, belongs to Shiva.

At the moment of death Shiva takes over from Vishnu. He is the lord of destruction. And therefore mythology has it that no one will agree to marry his daughter to Shiva. How can one offer one's offspring to death? How can one give to Shiva a woman who is basically a source of creation?

The incarnation of Vishnu does not mean that some person named Vishnu incarnated in Rama, then in Krishna and yet again in someone else. It is the energy known as Vishnu that descends in Rama, Krishna and everybody else. It has ever been descending and it will continue to descend forever. And the energy known as Shiva or Shankar is that which terminates life. If you understand it in this perspective, everything will be clear to you. Then it is not a riddle, not a puzzle at all.

  Osho~ Krishna The Man and his Philosophy 

Man, this was beautifully poetic, but I have to nitpick at his use of positron. I think what he meant was proton. Positrons are something else,

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@ajasatya @Prabhaker @Leo Gura @username  Thank you all! It's a very interesting and nuanced topic as far as I can see.

Things I found in addition: 

And a beautiful text:

Sri Ramakrishna and Kali: Mother has revealed everything to me

"I wept before the Mother and prayed. “O Mother, please tell me, please reveal to me what the yogis have realized through yoga and the jnanis through discrimination.” And the Mother has revealed everything to me. She reveals everything if the devotee cries to Her with a yearning heart. She has shown me everything that is in the Vedas, the Vedanta, the Puranas, and the Tantra.” (p. 579.)

The Divine Mother revealed to me in the Kali temple that it was She who had become everything. She showed me that everything was full of Consciousness. The image was Consciousness, the water was Consciousness, the altar was Consciousness, the water vessels were Consciousness, the doorsill was Consciousness, the marble floor was Consciousness-all was Consciousness.

I found everything inside the room soaked, as if were, in Bliss – the Bliss of Satchidananda. I saw a wicked man in front of the Kali temple, but in him also I saw the Power of the Divine Mother vibrating.

That was why I fed a cat with the food that was to be offered to the Divine Mother. I clearly perceived that the Divine Mother Herself had become everything – even the cat. The manager of the temple garden wrote to Mathur Babu saying that I was feeding the cat with the offering intended for the Divine Mother. But Mathur Babu had insight into the state of my mind. He wrote back to the manager: “Let him do whatever he likes. You must not say anything to him. (p. 345)

To my Divine Mother I prayed only for pure love. I offered flowers at Her Lotus Feet and prayed to Her: “Mother, here is Thy virtue, here it Thy vice. Take them both and grant me only pure love for Thee. Here is Thy knowledge, here is Thy ignorance, take them both and grant me only pure love for Thee. Here is Thy purity, here is Thy impurity. Take them both, Mother, and grant me only pure love for Thee. Here is Thy dharma, here is Thy adharma. Take them both, Mother, and grant me only pure love for Thee.” (pp.138-139)"

Edited by Echoes

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On 8/8/2017 at 9:59 AM, ajasatya said:

@Echoes  blue human being 

Blue represents pure consciousness. In real life Krishna was dark brown, like south Indians. 

 

On 8/8/2017 at 9:40 AM, Echoes said:

 But isn't every human a incarnation of shiva then? 

Yes, we have a prayer in Sanskrit which goes like this: "Shivo hum, Shivo hum." It means Shiva is me. 


The unborn Lord has many incarnations. BPHS 

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