Emotional Mastery Vs Neurotic Neediness

[Vladimir]

Note: this is targeted to men, but I think women can get the same benefits from this. I just thought guys really needed to hear this because it's so sad to see a lot of them approach dating in the most neurotic neediness way possible which pickup culture perpetuates. 

I just had this insight recently from Leo's wisdom on "do what's emotionally difficult - ace life!", "become an emotional super conductor" and "I'm completely independent of the good and bad opinions of other people".

Here is what's going to make your whole agenda of dating attractive women a lot easier and make you grow like never before in the process:

Your number one objective should be to achieve "emotional mastery" instead of getting laid, counting your dates or getting a girlfriend.

When "emotional mastery" is truly your number one goal you will finally start seeing progress and understand what areas in life you're lacking, this will also lead to authentic confidence, expression of your true self, and of course "emotional mastery", you will also be in danger of creating a true, loving relationship that most people never find.

Emotional mastery will also benefit your life in all areas, you can keep leveling up your mastery by seeing which situations trigger you/make you reactive. Are the cars on a freeway triggering you? - that's a great opportunity to work on non reacting, do certain people push your buttons? - time to explore the deep root cause of your negative self-image that makes you react, are the past memories make you so shameful that you feel like pinching yourself? - meditate and contemplate on these memories, see them clearly with your 5 senses, do shadow work. The great thing about this approach is you can start at a very low level, think of yourself as a low level character in a game who needs to gain experience before nailing the ultimate boss. Can you look people in the eyes while passing them by? Can you say hello to people? Find these low level situations that trigger you can start mastering them, then go to the next level.

Approaching dating in this way will eventually make you really grow as a person, what I've noticed about pickup community, is even the most 'bad ass' pickupers (Tyler Durden of RSD) are the most neurotic people ever and will never achieve emotional mastery, they will always hide their undeveloped humanity behind a mask just like Darth Vader.

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by Vladimir

[aurum]

@Vladimir

Emotional mastery is absolutely vital and it's good you've realized inner game is important.

But... it's only one half of the equation.

First off, your mind needs tangible goals to reach onto. When you say "my goal is emotional mastery", that's such a vague concept that it doesn't mean anything. How will you know when you achieve it? How will you truly know when you're making progress and backsliding?

But if you say "my goal is 5 dates this month" or "my goal is to talk to 10 girls tonight", now you have something very specific to get to work on. You'll either succeed or fail. And you'll know where you stand right away and can start making adjustments.

Second, how do you plan on getting better with women when you don't actually spend time talking to women? Imagine that someone told you that the way to become an amazing guitarist was by focusing on "emotional mastery" instead of actually playing guitar.

Third, the process of going out and meeting women in of itself can create the emotional mastery you're talking about. You're going to have to push through your fears day in and day out, working through them in the process.

The other side of the equation is pragmatism. Do you live in a place where you have access to the women you want to date? The right clothes? If you like clubs, how about knowing the name of the doorman on the night you go out? The difference between getting a girls phone number and Snapchat? Where is the best after-hours place?

Create a more holistic perspective and that's when you'll really see results. That's when you combine all the great inner game techniques you listed and  the practical, down to earth concerns that need to be addressed as well.

 

[Vladimir]

@aurum Brother....those things you mention are exactly what you don't want to do when it comes to dating, all of them lead to more neurotic behavior. Counting dates, how many girls you talk to, inner game? 

Emotional mastery is actually pretty easy to understand, it doesn't need any pickup jargon or "inner game", it all boils down to how reactive you are in the process of doing things that trigger you, this is very easy to track. I say this is where you start seeing progress because of how easy it is to track - how watch how reactive you are in the process and you're mindful of it, it goes perfectly well with meditation and awareness practice we are all doing. 

See there is no "succeed" or "fail" in this approach - this mentality again only leads to more suffering, you don't beat yourself up for screwing up or getting rejected because that's not what's its about to you anymore, it's about developing your inner strength and mastering emotions, instead of "succeeding with women", "getting laid", or "getting a girlfriend", I hope you can see the distinction here.

I understand talking to women is a skill and I never said all your problems will suddenly vanish when you come from a place of "emotional mastery", where did you get the idea that I'm not going to be talking to women? Using this mindset makes approaching women effortless as I have tested yesterday, how many pickup artists can say that? They will never get rid of their irrational fears of approaching women because their "inner game" is a way to manipulate themselves into confidence instead of developing true authentic confidence which comes from mastering your emotions. Of course you need practice, but the way you talk to women and relate to people in general is going to come from a place of authenticity instead of neurotic pickup manipulation where you hide your true intentions and come up with sneaky ways to seduce, build attraction, dominate and all the other pickup crap.

The choice is really - is your goal to become a more authentic human being or a fake pickup artist. Sure some pickup techniques can probably get you more dates and lays..., but it won't lead to true inner growth which is what's really important. 

[aurum]

@Vladimir

I'm glad you're still going out and actually approaching women. And if your strategy works for you, great. I'm not going to argue.

But I've seen a lot of guys who have tried to fix their dating life without being pragmatic and they fuck up a lot.

Essentially what you're saying is measuring your results and setting tangible goals = being neurotic. But that's simply not true.

Try running a business and saying "oh, I don't need to do things like measure revenue, expenses or set quarterly goals. That's so low consciousness. It's all about just connecting authentically to your customer". I guarantee you will fail.

Health is the same way. Do you think professional bodybuilders just wing it? Or are they tracking every calorie, every exercise, every macro?

How about landing a man on the moon? Should we just "follow our intuition"? Or should we actually have some engineers do some calculations and set targets?

Do you keep a clock to measure time? How about a schedule? A drawer to keep your bank statements?

And if we grant that measuring, planning and goal setting is important, why does it suddenly become unimportant when it comes to improving your dating life?

32 minutes ago, Vladimir said:

See there is no "succeed" or "fail" in this approach - this mentality again only leads to more suffering, you don't beat yourself up for screwing up or getting rejected because that's not what's its about to you anymore, it's about developing your inner strength and mastering emotions, instead of "succeeding with women", "getting laid", or "getting a girlfriend", I hope you can see the distinction here.

Here's the nuance to what I'm saying: you can measure your results and set goals in a non-neurotic way.

"OMG, I set a goal for 5 dates this month and only got 4. I suck so bad. Let me cry and put a gun in my mouth" = neurotic, perfectionism, recipe for failure.

"Oh, I got 4 out of the 5 dates I wanted this month. That's awesome, let's objectively look at what I did to learn and grow to do even better" = growth oriented, accepting of feedback, positive self-image, actualizing potential.

So the evil is not in measuring or goal setting. It's in how you go about it and your intentions.

You have a logical, left side of your brain for a reason. Being a strategic and analytical is a beautiful thing as long as you know its limits.

But you also need to know the limits of your strategy of "being authentic". Because that will only take you so far as well.

[Markus]

@Vladimir @aurum

 

This is something every single person who delves into pickup/dating would be better off understanding. I remember reading one particular thread on here, and I'm sure there's more where a person expresses wanting to date girls & have sex etc. but just by reading what they write, I can tell their lack of emotional mastery.

It all starts with self-acceptance and self-investment. If you don't have that, then what the fuck are you doing? I mean really. Then, pursuits like fitness or dating will be driven by an egotistical insecurity, which will be destructive to yourself and others. If dating is hard for somebody, instead of getting pissed and reactive about it, they should look at it holistically. Thinking you're entitled to women's sexual and romantic companionship when you're not able to attract/maintain it is essentially saying you're willing to compromise others' well-being for your own egotistical gain. If women don't want to be with you, there's a good reason why. Be empathetic to that. As well as yourself, and work on improving what you want to improve. I'm writing this first and foremost for myself. I also agree with aurum's contributions. I don't think there's an actual disagreement here.

Love y'all
Markus

 

[5driedgrams]

@Vladimir @aurum @Markus     

      This is a great dialogue. I can agree with parts of what everyone is saying. I believe that emotional mastery and inner-work have helped me in my own "pick up" endeavors by cultivating true(ish) confidence and less fear of rejection. Less damage to my self esteem and less of a negative reaction to rejection. If a girl rejects me and insults me in the process, I can say "oh man that poor girl must really not like herself to be trying to put me down for showing interest in her." I also have to say that my pick up game is playful and gentle and not aggressive, but slightly assertive, so if I were to be met with an insult, I know that I was not too aggressive and that her reaction is all about her. I would also thank them (in my head) for showing me where theyre at in their life spiritually. There also isn't so much riding on picking up a girl if I'm coming from a place of playful aloof confidence, and I reach higher levels of that playful aloof confidence with my personal development work.

     I also agree that it is good to have tangible goals and it is very important to feel that sense of accomplishment when those goals are met. They don't necessarily have to be 100% dating and pick-up related. That's where Markus's self-investment and holistic approach come in. If I'm creating results and meeting goals at work and with my exercise regiment, my meditation, and my creative hobbies (music and art) the confidence that comes from reaching those goals spills over into other aspects of my life I.e. my dating life. ALSO it is good to have some goals met in your dating life! if for even just the experience and practice.

    Lastly I want to say that I am just expressing what works for me and how it works. If it sounds like my approach is coming from my ego's selfish desires and needs, I welcome being called out on it. xoxo 

    

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by 5driedgrams

[Spiral]

Game can only get you so far, it's primary benefit is improving social skills but it can also help you improve your confidence. It's shallow but is a good "gateway" to deeper self-development.