How Do I Undermine Naive Realism?

[Viking]

I realized during my self inquiry practice that naive realism is a huge obstacle for me right now. ive seen leos rant on naive realism but i didnt understand how do i get rid of it mechanically. do i do it during the self inquiry as a part of it? or do i undermind it first and only then start to practice self inquiry because it seems to me that because of it im stuck.

[Leo Gura]

In practice it's VERY VERY difficult. Psychedelics are by far the best way that I've found. They just immediately show you that all experience is hallucinatory, and they are really great at wiping away the frame we call "my life" and "this physical universe".

Other than that, you're looking at 1000s of hours of contemplation, meditation, inquiry in focused retreat-like settings.

Reality is not easy to deconstruct. Which is why it feels so real.

[Dogsbestfriend]

@Leo Gura I tried watching this video. I couldn't get past the impression : what does it matter what we call the universe, when we 'are' we just 'are' - - through being I just accept what is - 'physical' or whatever. Trying to put a name/define it seems to pull me into identification - I might not be ready for that lesson. Maybe need to find to source of this conflict in me to dissolve it and absorb the idea properly.

[nightrider1435]

If you want to do it quick, then pyschedelics is the way to go. My first mushroom trip shattered my naive realism paradigm completely. 

[Leo Gura]

On 7/28/2017 at 2:09 AM, Dogsbestfriend said:

@Leo Gura I tried watching this video. I couldn't get past the impression : what does it matter what we call the universe, when we 'are' we just 'are' - - through being I just accept what is - 'physical' or whatever. Trying to put a name/define it seems to pull me into identification - I might not be ready for that lesson. Maybe need to find to source of this conflict in me to dissolve it and absorb the idea properly.

It doesn't matter what you call it. In fact, it has no name. But what does matter are all the implicit consequences which come with your labels and models. When you hold reality as "physical" and external, you're constricting yourself very much without knowing how yet.

On 7/28/2017 at 10:21 AM, K VIL said:

but what is the point of wiping away reality leo?

is it better to marvel at a beautiful rock your entire lifetime than build an empire made of rocks that others too can marvel at?

You've never really seen the beauty of a rock in your entire life, because you live in a constant state of conceptual delusion.

Truth is more beautiful than you can ever imagine.

[Joseph Maynor]

Realize that all your beliefs about reality are false and illusory.  Start to inquire into each and every belief you have about what is real.  This will lead you to realize that the egoic self and the external world are both illusory.  The body-mind is illusory.  All of this is thought-story.  Though-story is never real.  Reality contains thought stories just like a bookstore contains fiction books.  But nobody would ever confuse the fiction books for the non-fiction books.  The mind has you so hooked into its matrix of thoughts.  Enlightenment is finding a loose string and then pulling the old, frayed linen apart by the seams.  What you're left with is everything exactly the way it was before, but without the warped paradigm overlaying the Truth.  The ego wants you to think that warped paradigm is the true paradigm.  That's our problem -- egoic self-deception.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[SOUL]

On 7/28/2017 at 2:09 AM, Dogsbestfriend said:

when we 'are' we just 'are' - - through being I just accept what is - 'physical' or whatever.

You nailed it, don't allow others to distract you from this simple perspective you have. It's us just being in awareness accepting as it is without judging it as real or illusion or truth or false or any of that, just being in the moment.  So many spiritualists will tell us we need to drop our concepts and story but are quick to then supplant it with their concept and story in it's place calling it the "truth" and want us to agree with it.

The conflict could be that you are just being and accepting things as they are but others are telling you that it's not enough, that you need to agree with them in their conceptual belief on what's real or illusion and truth or false. So this input you are getting may be causing the conflict, if you are at peace with just being in acceptance then why allow others dissatisfaction with your contentment of just being create any conflict in you.

We let it just pass on through while we are just aware in being, passively observe it float away since there is no use for it in us, it's not our dissatisfaction, it's theirs they are attempting to give to us by planting the seed of their own discontent in us. It is what it is so just let it be.

Edited July 30, 2017 by SOUL

[Justin Evans]

@Ilya be patient with yourself,

give it time and dont give yourself a hard time if you don't "experience" the non physical. Do it with love for yourself. If you continue your techniques and continue onwards, you will have the experience  .

Im not sure how you feel about psychedelics, but I am not going to do them yet because I'm too young, I won't even consider it until I clear up all of my addictions first, because why risk it if I'm still a slave to things with lower consequences?

I haven't used psychedelics yet, I've been meditating seriously for about a year now, and I am starting to break down the physical. What I encourage is that you do this in dark lighting or almost pitch black. You see less, so you create more subtle imagery to make up for the lack of contrast in dark lighting. Pixelation gets larger, the room starts moving subtly, and you can feel/see the room breathing, you may see entities, warm/cold sensations in your body like if you had a toasty campfire burning in front of you, etc.

[SOUL]

On 7/27/2017 at 10:22 PM, Ilya said:

naive realism is a huge obstacle for me right now

In what way? You don't explain in what way is it an obstacle, what kind if obstacle or what it is hindering you from.

 

[Dogsbestfriend]

On 7/28/2017 at 10:43 PM, Leo Gura said:

It doesn't matter what you call it. In fact, it has no name. But what does matter are all the implicit consequences which come with your labels and models. When you hold reality as "physical" and external, you're constricting yourself very much without knowing how yet.

You're never really seen the beauty of a rock in your entire life, because you live in a constant state of conceptual delusion.

Truth is more beautiful than you can ever imagine.

@Leo GuraThank you, this answer has cleared something for me. I already feel I just am, and we all are part of the same thing. You can walk in the crowd of a festival and their energy passes through you too, we are all connected - the 'physical' is just a crude computer screen trying to process things that are too beyond it's capabilities.