Women shaming men for being attracted to/dating younger women

[Xonas Pitfall]

52 minutes ago, aurum said:

Almost every couple loses attraction to each other over the years.

If you can avoid that, your relationship is extremely rare.

I agree, but there's a difference between observing that attraction can decline over the course of a relationship and treating that decline as inevitable, or even something that should happen. The issue is when an experience gets turned into an expectation, almost an accepted standard, or worse, a justification for infidelity or abandoning your partner as they age.

And it's especially hypocritical when the same people complain about the disappearance of long-term commitment and traditional relationships, while openly expressing attitudes that undermine the very possibility of those things. If you're already suggesting that your attraction and commitment have a built-in expiration date as your partner inevitably ages, how can you reasonably expect anyone to want to commit to you or build any stability?

Edited 12 hours ago by Xonas Pitfall

[aurum]

39 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I am familiar with the honeymoon phase - but it has always been a mild/moderate shift. It could be ill-defined now I reflect on it. Some people might be referring to a complete drop-off of attraction. 

I think that term is thrown about very loosely; some people refer to it from the frame of sex, some attraction / intense feelings. 

I always thought, when referring to sex as the honeymoon phase, it was that initial "lock yourselves in for 8hrs and indulge in sex, food and cuddles" phase.... Which isn't necessary very sustainable. Or conducive to attending to the duties of life 🤣 

Honeymoon phase is 6-18 months according Gottman’s research.

https://www.simplypsychology.com/articles/relationship-stages-psychology

[aurum]

44 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

I agree, but there's a difference between observing that attraction can decline over the course of a relationship and treating that decline as inevitable, or even something that should happen. The issue is when an experience gets turned into an expectation, almost an accepted standard, or worse, a justification for infidelity or abandoning your partner as they age.

And it's especially hypocritical when the same people complain about the disappearance of long-term commitment and traditional relationships, while openly expressing attitudes that undermine the very possibility of those things. If you're already suggesting that your attraction and commitment have a built-in expiration date as your partner inevitably ages, how can you reasonably expect anyone to want to commit to you or build any stability?

Yes, people can rationalize all kinds of low standards and nonsense.

It is a serious challenge though. Maintaining attraction over years and years is no joke. Most dead bedroom couples would love to have the passion back, but they just don’t know how.

Attraction will not be moralized, reasoned or idealized into existence. It’s a wild beast that cannot be controlled. 

[PenguinPablo]

The interesting thing is women are being encouraged outright if not subtly to do the same. 

Men date younger = creep

Older women dates younger guy = A win against the patriarchy (Okay maybe not that dramatic... but definitely it does not seem like women are held accountable to ANY degree for the same dynamic)

Edited 10 hours ago by PenguinPablo

[Ulax]

13 hours ago, Lyubov said:

ok russell brand 

Well that escalated quickly

[Ulax]

8 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

And it's an attempt to devalue women and "take them down a peg" when attributing excessive worth to women based on youth. 

This is cope

[Basman]

6 hours ago, PenguinPablo said:

The interesting thing is women are being encouraged outright if not subtly to do the same. 

Men date younger = creep

Older women dates younger guy = A win against the patriarchy (Okay maybe not that dramatic... but definitely it does not seem like women are held accountable to ANY degree for the same dynamic)

It's not really equal to be fair. The milf dynamic is not as potentially exploitive or life altering and it's an ego boost to still be attractive to men past your prime as a woman. Older man don't need looks to pin a teen.

It's very American to freak out over age gaps though. But slicing off babies foreskins is completely okay. Culture 👍

Edited 4 hours ago by Basman

[Basman]

I know a guy who was in his 60s who slept around with a girl in her early 20s. She came unto him though, specifically seeking him out and was definitely using him for rent and gifts. Getting free housing in a big city and stuff. I don't think it was entirely planned, but it worked out that way opportunistically. He eventually stopped sleeping with her but kept her around out of kindness till he got burnt out. 

[LordFall]

12 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

IMO - age gaps when they are large, and one partner is 20yo or thereabouts, are often problematic. You don't hear of huge volumes of success stories for a reason. Older men can often go for younger women and slap the terms "no baggage" "femininity" "energy for life" as what drew them in; but often it is (unconscious or conscious) the desire for someone more pliant who will yield to the man, and a desire to feel young as age catches up. Cope. This can be true for men who do not see anything problematic with themselves or their behavior. Younger women often haven't learnt to diplomatically draw boundaries and are still working out who they are, what they want, and what they will/won't tolerate. They are also socialized to priorities harmony - which can result in suppressing their own needs. These women tolerate a lot more. It is no coincidence many older men go for these women, when their own age group have learned to explicate boundaries, needs and wants - which is always more difficult and requires patience, compromise and diplomacy to navigate. And some men in this group do not want to have to compromise.

Dating is a market at the end of the day. If dating you comes with a list of 100 requirements then you need to offer something of value to makeup for it otherwise your offer is probably not gonna get many interested suitors. Being available and interested to join and partake in someone's life is indeed an attractive trait that usually younger partners offer. See how you recapped the whole phenomena to younger women are more easily manipulatable but older women know what they want; that's not what the concept of baggage means. 

It reminds me of some(not all I'm sure) groups of women that when giving each-other dating advice they just give a narcissistic slop of "you're a queen babe, you're too good for him!" when their friend has objective flaws that require fixing to meet a man that's high quality and will not overlook them. Part of bringing a lot to the table is bringing a self-development attitude to your dating life and making sure that no matter what gender and age you are, someone would objectively get a lot from having you in their life. 

11 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

I think my issue with these conversations is that there seems to be an underlying implication of this "younger is better" phenomenon. As in, if your wife or girlfriend eventually gets older, as she inevitably will, and as you will too, these narratives often propagate the idea that "you should want to cheat, it's natural for you to be tempted, and it's natural and reasonable for you to become less attracted to her and eventually dump her for someone younger and more fertile." You can see it, for example, in the comments about Nvidia's CEO, where people were saying things like, "Damn, can't blame him. Look at his wife. I'd be tempted too, hell yeah," etc.

It would basically be somewhat equivalent to people saying it's "natural" for an aging woman to stop being attracted to her man as he gradually loses muscle and bone mass, decreases in testosterone, experiences a decline in erectile function, and loses that "young man, fun, free-spirited" energy, etc.

I suppose what bothers me most is how normalized this attitude seems to be.

Well it goes to show how weak a lot of traditional marriages are. They are not built with deep compatibility in mind just in people that get along to the bare minimum and child rear together. When the kids grow up and if the man has done well in his career/business then of course he's gonna look to split with his partner if he finds not much value in his relationship.

What I see from a lot of marriages is bickering and codependency. Only a few seem to be deep unions with truly compatible people who value each other deeply in all kinds of ways.  

Older women can bring a massive amount of value if they keep working on themselves and now have more confidence in who they are, an understanding of how the world works and expertise from their career/business, have kept some charm and easy going ness to them and don't have that jadedness that some older people of either gender have, keep taking care of themselves physically, etc. 

There are some common red pill talking points on women reaching the wall and not being attractive after a certain age. That's not where my post is coming from at all, I find some older women very attractive and would definitely date one in my polycule. My post is aimed at people using shaming and manipulation to get their needs met instead of providing genuine value. 

Edited 2 hours ago by LordFall

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@LordFall you are responding to some things I am not saying. I didn't say that every man attracted to younger women wants someone manipulable (as an example). 

Reducing these dynamics to dating-market value is a significant conceptual oversimplification. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[LordFall]

Sure, I'm not saying it was the entirety of your point but it was a big part of it.

14 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Older men can often go for younger women and slap the terms "no baggage" "femininity" "energy for life" as what drew them in; but often it is (unconscious or conscious) the desire for someone more pliant who will yield to the man, and a desire to feel young as age catches up. Cope. This can be true for men who do not see anything problematic with themselves or their behavior. Younger women often haven't learnt to diplomatically draw boundaries and are still working out who they are, what they want, and what they will/won't tolerate.

I don't know if recognizing that relationships run in big part on reciprocal value is an oversimplification; it's the baseline reality underneath a lot of  romance. One can dress it up in whatever psychological language they want, but at the end of the day, healthy dynamics happen when both people genuinely enrich each other's lives rather than demanding accommodation through guilt or social shaming.

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall