Discipline is evil

[Wilhelm44]

10 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

No one is denying that sometimes we need to do things we don’t enjoy doing.

 

 

Okay, well then I don't understand the OP, because it's literally saying if it's not enjoyable it's not worth doing.

What am I missing ?

 

[Mellowmarsh]

3 hours ago, vibv said:

Wrong. The road to hell looks like heaven—and the road to HEAVEN looks like hell.

The highest Good is achieved by being innocently Evil.

This is profound beauty, absolutely. 

 

[Mellowmarsh]

3 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Okay, well then I don't understand the OP, because it's literally saying if it's not enjoyable it's not worth doing.

What am I missing ?

 

You are the missing piece. 

[gettoefl]

Laziness is I am God and I do what I want when I please. No one is worth listening to since I just want easy happy decadent life. Discipline is I need to do better since I am a babe in wolf's clothing to mix a metaphor or two. I am going to make something of my life. Laziness is I don't give a shit. Lazy is pure selfishness out of ignorance. Discipline is I see my selfishness and I overcome it. Laziness is loud. Discipline says nothing and does everything.

[Wilhelm44]

2 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

You are the missing piece. 

Are you saying the joy of being overrides the unpleasantness of certain tasks ?

 

[Mellowmarsh]

4 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Are you saying the joy of being overrides the unpleasantness of certain tasks ?

 

Is there anything missing in that statement?

[Mellowmarsh]

6 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Are you saying the joy of being overrides the unpleasantness of certain tasks ?

 

Being agonisingly split open giving birth to a baby is unpleasant, but the joy of doing such a job is worth it. Otherwise none of us would be here. 

[Wilhelm44]

1 minute ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Being agonisingly split open giving birth to a baby is unpleasant, but the joy of doing such a job is worth it. Otherwise none of us would be here. 

Yeah, totally agree.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Some evil definitely requires discipline, I think? 

Gaining enough power to cause widespread evil requires relative discipline.

A completely undisciplined person cannot generate enough success to have much impact on society.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

Yeah parents who show up to work everyday to feed their kids are evil 😵

By this logic suffering is evil, sacrifice is evil, pain is evil, delayed gratification, mastery, expertise, education, etc

Edited 4 hours ago by Thought Art

[Xonas Pitfall]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Gaining enough power to cause widespread evil requires relative discipline.

A completely undisciplined person cannot generate enough success to have much impact on society.

Yes, agreed!

But I suppose my point isn't just about having enough power to influence society on a large scale. It also applies to very ordinary human desires, like wanting to be attractive, desired, admired, have some wealth, often just to impress others: "I'll show it to my friends, my ex, my family!", gain validation, feel superior, etc.

All of these desires can be done deeply egoically and selfishly, yet pursuing them successfully can still require tremendous discipline.

For example, many people want to be fit, attractive, and alluring, not necessarily out of love or care for their health, but because they want attention, to captivate and manipulate others. Yet they often lack the discipline to achieve even that. The same applies to pickup artists. Someone might want to seduce and manipulate others for selfish reasons, yet lack the courage or discipline to even approach anyone.

Plenty of people desire selfish things but lack the discipline to acquire them. Consequently, those who do have the discipline are using the discipline to be "evil".

I guess the broader point is that discipline isn't necessarily evidence of goodness, just as a lack of discipline isn't necessarily evidence of good intentions. Someone can have deeply selfish, manipulative, destructive desires but simply lack the discipline to act on them effectively.

Edited 4 hours ago by Xonas Pitfall

[Rafael Thundercat]

I prefer the pain of going to the gym and have dicipline to keep going, than the pain of letargy and a body that cant function. Discipline is good. If you ober do it is your falt. Be more Disciplined upon your Discipline 

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

For example, many people want to be fit, attractive, and alluring, not necessarily out of love or care for their health, but because they want attention, to captivate and manipulate others. Yet they often lack the discipline to achieve even that. The same applies to pickup artists. Someone might want to seduce and manipulate others for selfish reasons, yet lack the courage or discipline to even approach anyone.

Plenty of people desire selfish things but lack the discipline to acquire them. Consequently, those who do have the discipline are using the discipline to be "evil".

This is explained by discipline and evil coming in many degrees and domains.

For example, Trump is disciplined to a certain sense that he shows up every day, he isn't sitting at home smoking weed and jerking off to porn. But Trump is very undisciplined epistemically, intellectually, morally, health-wise, verbally, spiritually, sexually, financially, etc.

There are many different lines and domains of discipline. You can be disciplined in taking cold showers every day and epistemically undisciplined in spreading conspiracy theories every day.

Discipline cannot be viewed as a single axis. That is why my original quote mentioned four key areas of discipline that people suck at that leads to evil.

Yes, Hitler was disciplined, but not in those 4 key areas. Hence the evil.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Xonas Pitfall]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is explained by discipline and evil coming in many degrees and domains.

For example, Trump is disciplined to a certain sense that he shows up every day, he isn't sitting at home smoking weed and jerking off to porn. But Trump is very undisciplined epistemically, intellectually, morally, health-wise, verbally, spiritually, sexually, financially, etc.

There are many different lines and domains of discipline. You can be disciplined in taking cold showers every day and epistemically undisciplined in spreading conspiracy theories every day.

Discipline cannot be viewed as a single axis. That is why my original quote mentioned four key areas of discipline that people suck at that leads to evil.

Yes, Hitler was disciplined, but not in those 4 key areas. Hence the evil.

Exactly! I was just challenging this claim in particular, but yes, I completely agree. 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Evil does not require discipline.

Edited 3 hours ago by Xonas Pitfall

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Evil does not require discipline.

That is technically true.

You can do a lot of evil with no discipline. But you can do even more evil with some discipline in the right areas.

[Mellowmarsh]

6 hours ago, vibv said:

Discipline is an invention of the Devil to brainwash you into thinking you'd have to do something by using violent force against yourself.

If it's not enjoyable it's not even worth doing.

Discipline can be enjoyed. But it's the Joy that makes it worth doing, not discipline itself.

I agree. 
 

Discipline says, I am doing this because I should.

Joy says, There is something about doing this that makes it worthwhile.

Of course, we can sometimes do worthwhile things without enjoying every moment of them. The statement is not necessarily saying that everything must feel pleasurable all the time.

 

[vibv]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Evil does not require discipline.

Trying to be good is evil.

Freedom is Truth.

Truth is falsehood.

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Joy says

Life cannot be properly lived by joy alone.

There are many painful and tedious things you must do to live properly which will not be joyful.

Butchering a chicken is not joyful but it must be done.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, vibv said:

Trying to be good is evil.

Freedom is Truth.

Truth is falsehood.

You are being too clever for your own good.

[vibv]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

You are being too clever for your own good.

LOOK IN THE MIRROR