Push back on Leo: why you should take the bible seriously

[Atb210201]

Just now, Willy Phallicus said:

Virgin birth is an allegory.  Like most bible stories.

It can be but even if you take it literally it is possible for God to do such a thing.

[Jirh]

5 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

Well, that just shows you have a bias against religion, that's all.

Because you yourself said it's actually possible you just don't like for it to be true.

I wouldn't bet one penny on it to be true.

[Nemra]

Since everything is magic, a baby being born from a virgin wouldn't make it more magical.

The stability of existence has its implications. The stability is the magic.

If God changed the stability of existence, everything would have changed. There wouldn't be this human experience. It's stupid to think otherwise.

It's foolish to believe that your beliefs determine the stability of existence.

Belief in God is stupid. God doesn't care about it.

[Atb210201]

1 minute ago, Jirh said:

I wouldn't bet one penny on it to be true.

But it can be.

It is in the realm of possibilities for God.

Whether it is or not is another matter.

[Atb210201]

3 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Since everything is magic, a baby being born from a virgin wouldn't make it more magical.

Yes it does make it more magical.

Everything is magic but we don't see it that way.

So a baby being born from a virgin will be a proof of magic for non believers because it breaks the rules we're used to.

That is the whole point of a miracle that prophets showcase.

To prove that they are sent by God.

Edited 3 hours ago by Atb210201

[Jirh]

3 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

But it can be.

It is in the realm of possibilities for God.

Whether it is or not is another matter.

Yeah, so we're back to anyone believing that story being a fool.

[Jirh]

5 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Since everything is magic, a baby being born from a virgin wouldn't make it more magical.

Exactly.

It's even less magical because normal birth requires 9 months of magic.

9 months is greater magic than instant creation.

[Atb210201]

1 minute ago, Jirh said:

Yeah, so we're back to anyone believing that story being a fool.

Why?

You said it's possible but still saying if someone believes it is a fool. Why?

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Majed said:

@hundreth I'm shocked at how you guys follow Leo, while still seeing the world through a materialist paradigm. You guys don't get the relativity of ontology. A christian lives in a different world than a non christian down to the ontological level. Here's the kick: there is not one correct worldview. Whatever you pay attention to becomes your worldview or view of the world. Because reality is infinite mind the more mind looks into a thing like let's say the bible, the more it derives truth, reality, wisdom, insights... From it! 

You were just complaining about how there were no arguments. I put forth an argument, and your response is to call us blind followers. No counter arguments. You did not address what I wrote at all.

I don't blindly follow Leo. I respect his opinions, but have challenged his ideas and positions many times.

[Jirh]

Just now, Atb210201 said:

Why?

You said it's possible but still saying if someone believes it is a fool. Why?

Because if the same story happened today, no Christian would believe it. They would be all smart and rational.

No one would believe a woman who claims the exact same phenomenon that Mary did.

Miracles are only true if they serve their bias and beliefs.

[Jirh]

1 hour ago, Majed said:

@hundreth I'm shocked at how you guys follow Leo, while still seeing the world through a materialist paradigm. You guys don't get the relativity of ontology. A christian lives in a different world than a non christian down to the ontological level. Here's the kick: there is not one correct worldview. Whatever you pay attention to becomes your worldview or view of the world. Because reality is infinite mind the more mind looks into a thing like let's say the bible, the more it derives truth, reality, wisdom, insights... From it! 

You are right from a meta epistemological perspective.

But from an even more meta perspective, you can't really choose your ontology. You can't really choose to believe in the Bible or any other book or teaching. Your base level of consciousness determines that for you.

Right now you are experiencing the insight into ontology and how it works, and that's splendid. But you're not Christian and probably will never be. You can understand Christians but you can't be one of them.

Edited 3 hours ago by Jirh

[Nemra]

@Atb210201, you're naive.

You confuse beliefs with truth.

Belief of baby from a virgin is for children.

Existence is magic.

Your beliefs what magic is a perversion of the magic of existence.

3 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

So a baby being born from a virgin will be a proof of magic for non believers because it breaks the rules we're used to.

Believers pervert the magic because they don't want to see the magic that is in front of them.

The rules are the magic!

The rules are why a baby from a virgin is stupid. People are stupifying God for their own agenda.

The dust on your table is the magic.

God is not in the clouds controlling humans and breaking rules from time to time. That is stupidity stemming from beliefs.

God is self-creation.

[Atb210201]

16 minutes ago, Jirh said:

Because if the same story happened today, no Christian would believe it. They would be all smart and rational.

No one would believe a woman who claims the exact same phenomenon that Mary did.

Miracles are only true if they serve their bias and beliefs.

That's exactly right.

That's why true believers are always very few.

But this is also mentioned in the scriptures themselves.

 

[Leo Gura]

This is not leading anywhere good.