Almost 9/11 style terror attack

[oOo]

23 minutes ago, Jirh said:

See? This is the attitude I'm talking about. You're not appreciating Arab life.

Claim unproven. 

 

23 minutes ago, Jirh said:

What you're basically saying is:

It's just 30 people in a year. It doesn't count or matter unless it's 365 a year.

No.

What happened was that I showed that your claim of daily killings was false. 

That's all that happened. And showing it to be false is not a criticism, its just a reality.

I want a productive conversation.

23 minutes ago, Jirh said:

So 30 unprovoked killings is a fact of life.

This takes away from the comparison I drew earlier regarding Hamas having very little for their own people's lives; disturbingly slow. 

It would be better not to derail my point here, instead approach it head on. 

 

23 minutes ago, Jirh said:

It's just normal we don't even need to worry about it. We'll start worrying when it reaches 365, and then if that becomes the standard, we'll just learn to get used to it and consider it a standard, until a worse standard develops.

Again, no.

23 minutes ago, Jirh said:

Exaggerations serve a purpose. To invoke a reality that no one is seeing.

This is unnecessary.

Integrity is far more important. 

Exaggerations overlap with a lack of integrity, the very reasons that lead to a conversation no longer being productive. 

 

[Karmadhi]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I do not equate development with material only. I am saying Israelis are more morally developed. So it is worse than you hoped.

When you analyze moral development you do not only analyze the current situation but also what would happen in another scenario

You say "Israel is not crashing civilian planes" therefore they are more morally developed

I do agree with you that crashing civilian planes is as bad as it gets

I will not justify it

However, I have a question for you

Would Israel not resort to such tactics if they were stripped out of their power and were the underdog

They have done it in the past with bombing hotels

There is a historical precedent

So what makes us think that Israel is not beyond this but simply does not do it because they do not need to

A true moral developed society would say "this is wrong and we will not do it" even if they were in a weaker position

What makes you think Israel would have such a thinking?

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Karmadhi

[Jirh]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Now that's semantics.

You guys are still not seeing what I am pointing to.

I don't know man. I just want the killing to stop. I want to do something but I can't do anything. It's frustrating.

And you're telling me that this is how it should be. I cannot accept it.

[Jirh]

@oOo

You can be rational all you want. You can even be right and I'm wrong. It doesn't matter. What matters is that the war is still ongoing and we can't do anything about it. Sorry if I offended. I'm just deeply frustrated with the situation.

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, oOo said:

As stated, we are still working on adequate connections pertaining to your claim

It's the narrative that I personally believe it to be true. But I'm not the best person to defend that position myself if you want to become fully convinced. Not that it's indefensible but rather that I'm not nerdy enough on all the details necessary to do this kind of steelmaning. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Salvijus

[Nivsch]

17 hours ago, Yimpa said:

What was the most difficult part about being a soldier?

But more personally, the beginning of the service, in the course, which was half a year when returning home once a week, when I am stuck with couple of very difficult people in class that made fun of the fact I was nervous to speak in front of of the class and stuttered here and there (today barely have this problem with speaking in front of people but then it was scary) and their chose to laugh and to drop some remarks my way. Right this not as difficult as fighting terrorists but still, mentally this was a real trial by fire in many ways, but was also pleasant and exciting later in this course when I overcame this gradually. So straight to your question, this was the most difficult thing for me.

Edited 6 hours ago by Nivsch

[Lyubov]

Some of you guys are brainrotted wackos. Good lord, did some of you guys form your opinion from the Instagram comments?

The thing is that yeah, the world does interpret highjacking planes and doing all the Arab Muslim terrorism stuff as barbaric and playing dirty. Of course what Israel is doing is awful, but the optics is much cleaner. It’s not some grand conspiracy that brainrot folks try to set it up as “it’s just the mainstream media!” It’s easier for a normie to see a country drop a bomb and it’s president making speeches about how they are sorry for casualties and gave out warnings to leave etc vs some guy stealing a plane with civilians and crashing it into the ground. It is much harder to sell the idea that crashing a place like that is self defense and justified. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Lyubov

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Jirh said:

I don't know man. I just want the killing to stop. I want to do something but I can't do anything. It's frustrating.

And you're telling me that this is how it should be. I cannot accept it.

Ah, yes! Now we are getting to the core of it.

What your moralizing obstructs is your surrender to the brutality of life. You want life to be kinder and more moral, but that can only happen at the rate of human development, not any faster. You cannot force Israel to be more mature than it is.

To grow, you have to really confront how brutal life is. You cannot take the position that life is wrong for being how it is, because that would be a rejection of Truth.

So all of this boils down to your struggle to accept Truth. The Truth is too ugly and you don't want to accept it so you go on moralizing, which keeps you stuck in suffering and ignorance.

You can still fight for Palestine, but you need to accept that things cannot magically fit your moral fantasy of how kind life should be. Life is not kind.

The political reality is that the higher developed force will win. Israel will slowly crush Palestine to dust. I know you hate that outcome, but ugly outcomes happen all the time.

Edited 5 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Ash55]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They have been doing that since the 1970s.

Wow
Is it all against Israel ?

Edited 6 hours ago by Ash55

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Ash55 said:

Wow
Is it all against Israel ?

I don't know what that means.

[Karmadhi]

52 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The political reality is that the higher developed force will win. Israel will slowly crush Palestine to dust. I know you hate that outcome, but ugly outcomes happen all the time.

Do you think Russia will crush Ukraine too as the more powerful party?

And how would you suggest Palestinian case get resolved realistically

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Karmadhi

[Jirh]

57 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ah, yes! Now we are getting to the core of it.

What your moralizing obstructs is your surrender to the brutality of life. You want life to be kinder and more moral, but that can only happen at the rate of human development, not any faster. You cannot force Israel to be mature than it is.

To grow, you have to really confront how brutal life is. You cannot take the position that life is wrong for being how it is, because that would be a rejection of Truth.

So all of this boils down to your struggle to accept Truth. The Truth is too ugly and you don't want to accept it so you go on moralizing, which keeps you stuck in suffering and ignorance.

You can still fight for Palestine, but you need to accept that things cannot magically fit your moral fantasy of how kind lifw should be. Life is not kind.

The political reality is that the higher developed force will win. Israel will slowly crush Palestine to dust. I know you hate that outcome, but ugly outcomes happen all the time.

Well Goddammit! You're right!

Thank you Leo! You're the best teacher.

But still, you demonize Trump all the time. How is demonizing Israel's cruelty different?

Why is your political stance better?

Edited 5 hours ago by Jirh

[Ajay0]

Even though the jews, christians and muslims are part of the abrahamic family, they are constantly at each others throats for centuries.

I think this may be due to the dualistic theology in the abrahamic religions with their emphasis on relative good and evil, and this may have percolated to their political systems as well, which would explain their conflict-prone nature  manifesting in the two world wars, cold war,  crusades and jihads.

Without acquiring a nondual philosophy as a substratum they are bound to be conflict-prone habitually.

[oOo]

1 hour ago, Jirh said:

@oOo

You can be rational all you want. You can even be right and I'm wrong. It doesn't matter. What matters is that the war is still ongoing and we can't do anything about it. Sorry if I offended. I'm just deeply frustrated with the situation.

I hope I haven't offended.

There has been no offense on my end.

It isn't about being rational more than it is about being objective and self-aware.

From the perspective of preserving integrity on the situation, truth and reality must be put at the forefront stabalised by compassion, awareness and prudence. 

If you wish to engage further on any one particular thing I am open minded, however I can only engage relative to how I have been unless there was something personal you actually wished to discuss openly here, in which case other people that vibe with the same sense can interact with you on this as well. 

[oOo]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

It's the narrative that I personally believe it to be true. But I'm not the best person to defend that position myself if you want to become fully convinced. Not that it's indefensible but rather that I'm not nerdy enough on all the details necessary to do this kind of steelmaning. 

That's okay.

I will document your thoughts for personal discovery in the future anyway.

Thank you for sharing from a place that reflects your truth, even if the reality needs to still be parsed through fairly heavily.

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Do you think Russia will crush Ukraine too as the more powerful party?

It's not the same. Ukraine is a real state with a strong army backed by all of Europe and America, and Russia is so corrupt and incompetent that it can't even wage a proper war.

Quote

And how would you suggest Palestinian case get resolved realistically

I do not see a solution. I think a deal should be reached for Palestinians to leave that land and live elsewhere. But that too will not happen. So realistically I think most of them will be killed and lose their land/homes. I'd like to see them have an option to leave the area.

The best thing to do if you're in Palestine is leave to a better country and restart your life. But I know most can't do that.

28 minutes ago, Jirh said:

But still, you demonize Trump all the time. How is demonizing Israel's cruelty different?

Why is your political stance better?

Look, I got no problem calling Netanyahu a devil. And what Israeli is doing with Hasbara and their manipulations is pure devilry.

But my understanding of Trump and Netanyahu is not clouded by my calling them devils. I have a very fair and sober view of Netanyahu. I understand his position and why it is good from his point of view. Netanyahu is a very impressive character. Trump is just a fucking clown. Netanyahu is a serious leader.

You should watch my Instagram video about how my demonization is not really demonization. I understand the points of view of everyone I demonize. That's what I recommend for you. Visualize Netanyahu's point of view until you understand him.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Raze]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not the same.

You are looking at this purely from a material perspective, like hostages or lives lost. But the how of it matters.

There is a difference between killing a little girl with a bomb accidentally vs cutting her apart with a knife with a smile. Those are different things even though in both cases there is 1 material death.

And yes, Israelis do take pleasure in killing Arabs, I don't deny that. But Israelis are not flying planes into skyscrapers. That is an important difference.

That’s arbitrary then. If we use the definition of terrorism equally the US and Israel objectively do more.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Raze said:

That’s arbitrary then. If we use the definition of terrorism equally the US and Israel objectively do more.

Look, I know all these leftist views. I am sympathetic to them. But that's not how society or politics works.

You can call the US a terrorist state and you can call Bush a war criminal, but you are talking to yourself in a leftist bubble. These are not serious positions that will be taken seriously on the world stage.

America is not hijacking planes and cutting people's heads off with knives.

America is one of the most developed places in the world. Calling it terrorism is silly.

Yes, America is a huge nation that causes lots of harm to others. But it is not terrorism.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Salvijus]

25 minutes ago, oOo said:

That's okay.

I will document your thoughts for personal discovery in the future anyway.

Thank you for sharing from a place that reflects your truth, even if the reality needs to still be parsed through fairly heavily.

🙏 

[Jirh]

@Leo Gura

Practically speaking, what should I do besides accepting the harsh reality of human war and development?